Is there a cost effective printer?

[pisosse@adobeforums.com]

Heyall

When I once again walk down to the store after a new cartridge for my epson
c70 I wonder if I could spend my mony on a better more cost effective
printer. On that node I do have some expenses doing bigformat(a3) prints in
a shop and thought about getting the epson 2100. But would I just spend that
more mony on ink or is the math :

Cheap printer= baaad ink okonomy

Expensive printer = good ink okonomy??

I'll like the latter to be true

Thanks

Casper

[Conrad_Chavez@adobeforums.com]

You might want to look into the Epson 4000 <http://www.inkjetart.com/4000/index.html>. It costs over twice as much as the 2100/2200, but because it can take huge 220ml cartridges of ink, that price difference could pay for itself rather quickly if you print in volume. Note that the 4000 is in short supply.

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

It also costs about $900 to fill it with ink. and if you don't use it the ink still dries up.

he's got a c70 what's that a letter printer with 1 cartrige??

I think the 4000 is over kill for Casper

[Conrad_Chavez@adobeforums.com]

Yes, you do have to print in large volumes for the 4000 to be economical. But he also mentioned the possibility of making A3 prints, which indicates that he's looking into a format upgrade. You can't print A3 on a c70.

It's hard to find an inexpensive printer that doesn't go through expensive cartridges. On printers under $1000, as far as I know the only way to save money is to find a printer that supports a bulk feeding system like the ones linked below.
NoMoreCarts <http://www.nomorecarts.com> (I'm using this product)
MediaStreet <http://www.mediastreet.com/cgi-bin/tame/mediastreet/n2.tam>
If you go this route, you won't be using official Epson inks, and that will affect your color reproduction. If you're not interested in working with the non-Epson color profiles necessary to give you the right balance with non-Epson inks, they might not be worth the savings.

Some would suggest the Epson 2200 as an alternative because it uses a separate cartridge for each ink, but I think it still consumes cartridges at a high rate. With seven cartridges, it almost seems like at least one of the cartridges is running low at any given time, and every time you change even one cartridge, all seven inks ($$$) are purged during the mandatory cleaning cycle. This is what's making me think about a 4000.

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

But 7 cartriges for $80 2200 compared to $900 for the 4000

[barry_gray@adobeforums.com]

Best guess so far on my 2200, about $5/ 13x19 ink usage

[Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com]

Personally, for what they do I do not consider either the SP2200 or SP4000 to be "expensive." They are bargains! When for US$700 up front you can print up to 13x19 true photo quality and use about US$0.25 ink on an 8x10 print IMO that is excellent value.

The US$700 13x19 Epson SP2200 should be ideal for Casper.

No way it costs US$5 for ink for a 13x19 Epson SP200 print; that would mean a new cartridge every 2.5 prints. It is closer to US$1.

Buko-

Why do you state that "if you don't use it the ink still dries up." In spite of my worst-case environmental conditions I have never seen indications of ink drying up with the SP2200 (sometimes an individual color will go 6+ months before needing replacement), and I would expect the SP4000 to perform similarly.

[Conrad_Chavez@adobeforums.com]

I went through the math a while ago in trying to decide if I'm interested in the 4000:

While the 2200 full refill cost is about $70 compared to $900 for the 4000, the costs look different when you do it by milliliter, because of the larger 4000 carts. The 12ml cartridges for the 2200 are about 8 cents/ml, while the 220 ml cartridges for the 4000 are about 5 cents/ml.

I think that the way to do this is to find out if you'd print enough on the 4000 to save you money over its lifetime. The price difference between the two printers is about $1100, so the choice comes down to spending that $1100 either on the 4000, or on cartridges for the 2200. $1100 can buy around 16 complete sets (110 cartridges) for the 2200. I think that tells us the break-even point: If you believe that you'll change every ink color 16 times before you replace the 2200, you might eventually save money with a 4000. Obviously, the 4000 won't be worth it for casual users, but busy photographers are probably drooling in anticipation. I've gone through at least 18 cartridges worth about $200, which is almost 20% of the way already...and I don't print every day.

[Lundberg02@adobeforums.com]

Epson knows they could give away their printers and live off ink sales. Same as the old Kodak cameras. But serious printing requires serious printers and Epson has them.
I bought an Epson combo 5400 recently and it is ideal for home use. I also have an Epson 440 that has not worked out too well.
What is it about Epsons that makes them damn near throw themelves off their stands when the paper feed begins? It's scary.

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

Why do you state that "if you don't use it the ink still dries up." In
spite of my worst-case environmental conditions I have never seen indications
of ink drying up with the SP2200




My comment was if Casper was printing 1 or 2 a3 every 6 months the 4000 was not econmical. If you live in a dry climate you would have problems with clogging sooner than later. If he is now using a letter size prnter and just needs something that can do 13x19 every once in a while the 4000 is overkill and his ink will clog if not dry.

but until casper comes back and talks to us we will never know.

[Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com]

I agree the SP4000 sounds inappropriate for light usage.

[pisosse@adobeforums.com]

On 4/5/04 5:06 AM, in article [email]2cd1098d.9@webx.la[/email]2eafNXanI,
"Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com" <Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com> wrote:

> I agree the SP4000 sounds inappropriate for light usage.

HHmmm it looks like it's between the sp2200 and the 4000? Well I'm not a
busy photographer but my wife is a design school student and are typically
presenting projects in A3 and doing a lot of graphics print. Me I'm a first
AD in the movie biz so I'll be printing a lot of shootingboards wich I
prefer to do in color but not in super high res.

So no way of getting around Epson Huh? Not that I mind but so far it's been
all about the 2200.

[barry_gray@adobeforums.com]

Allen,
I get 15-20 13x19's per set of carts. If one could print complete images with just one cart, it would come out to one every 2.5 prints.
Divide $75 by 15 ?????

[barry_gray@adobeforums.com]

So Allen-prove me wrong!

[Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com]

Barry-

I never have used cartridges in sets. Always ink is used unevenly, with magentas and cyans being used way more (because of the color schemes of my clients). My estimate is very much an estimate, based on very uneven use of cartridges and replacing them one every so often. My best estimate would be average 8-12 11x17 per cartridge; I never print batches of 13x19.

Epson claims 440 pages (8.5x11 I think) per cartrdge, whatever that means. That would be 62 8.5x11 pages per cartridge or in the range of 15+ 13x19 pages. I put very little confidence in Epson's numbers, however. But it does seem - admittedly without good objective data - to me that 2.5 per cartridge is way low.

Also do note that I seldom print fully edge-to-edge, usually having at least 1-2 cm. of white space.