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ISO: Richiebee - Macromedia Fireworks

Recently you posted a link to this page : [url]http://www.richiebee.ca/escog/[/url] where you mention that this was written for 'the Fireworks book'. Which book is that? Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from photographs like in one of the pictures that you posted. TIA....

  1. #1

    Default ISO: Richiebee

    Recently you posted a link to this page : [url]http://www.richiebee.ca/escog/[/url]
    where you mention that this was written for 'the Fireworks book'. Which book
    is that?
    Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from photographs
    like in one of the pictures that you posted.
    TIA.


    Silvia Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee

    On 01 Jul 2003 in macromedia.fireworks, Silvia wrote:
    > Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from
    > photographs like in one of the pictures that you posted.
    I don't know how Richiebee did it, but Ilya Razmanov has a number of
    filters available (free) which will work with FW and will create some
    great effects:

    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/[/url]

    --
    Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
    [url]http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe[/url]
    Joe Makowiec Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee


    "Joe Makowiec" <makowiecnycap.rEMOVECAPSr.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns93AC51EE10B5makowiecatnycapdotrE65.57.83. 209...
    > On 01 Jul 2003 in macromedia.fireworks, Silvia wrote:
    >
    > > Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from
    > > photographs like in one of the pictures that you posted.
    >
    > I don't know how Richiebee did it, but Ilya Razmanov has a number of
    > filters available (free) which will work with FW and will create some
    > great effects:
    >
    > [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/[/url]
    >
    > --
    > Joe Makowiec can be reached at:
    > [url]http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe[/url]
    Thanks Joe; first I must warn that these filters are Windows only. Second,
    it seems that, more specifically, [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/simplifier.html[/url]
    is what Silvia is looking for, maybe with some touch of edge-detecting
    effects of [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/shamanes.html[/url] In a word, download
    whole set from [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/download.html[/url] and see :-)

    Ilyich.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/[/url] - Photoshop plug-in filters
    "It has 3 settings: 'Cook','Jet defrost' and 'Mutilate beyond recognition'"
    - Laverne, Day of the Tentacle.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Ilya Razmanov Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Richiebee

    Unfortunately there is no book Silvia. The publisher I wrote it for (Wrox)
    went bankrupt before it was published. I did however get my rights reverted
    to me and I am free to do whatever I want with it. It will appear on a web
    site, free of charge as soon as we get the site up and I finish editing the
    content for use on the web. An announcement will be made on this group when
    we're there...
    The cartoon illustration can be achieved using two copies of a photograph
    with some styles applied to each. Looks like Ilya has provided something
    which can do the job for you. If not, then I'll try and post my styles by
    the end of the day with some very brief instructions.

    Rich

    --
    Richard Blenkinsopp
    [url]www.richiebee.ca[/url]
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Fireworks
    [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
    Contributor and Moderator for Escogitando
    [url]www.escogitando.it[/url]
    "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bdtj1q$m5f$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Recently you posted a link to this page : [url]http://www.richiebee.ca/escog/[/url]
    > where you mention that this was written for 'the Fireworks book'. Which
    book
    > is that?
    > Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from
    photographs
    > like in one of the pictures that you posted.
    > TIA.
    >
    >

    Richie Bee Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Richiebee


    Thanks guys. Looking forward to that site Richiebee.
    The extensions on Ilyas site should do the job. I'm just having trouble
    getting it to work, Ilya. I downloaded the pack and put it in the commands
    folder, but nothing is showing up under the commands menu, or anywhere else
    for that matter. What do I need to get it working?
    TIA.


    Silvia Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Richiebee

    Thx Linda, got it working now.


    Silvia Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Richiebee

    Cool graphics Richie. It could been one great book for Fireworks. I can't
    wait to see your tutorials on the web. =)

    Regards,

    Marlon De Jesus
    Macromedia Technical Support
    Dreamweaver / Fireworks

    Introducing Macromedia Contribute. Web publishing for everyone.
    Learn more at [url]www.macromedia.com/contribute[/url]

    To search for TechNotes and other issues use;
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url]
    "Richie Bee" <richrichiebee.ca> wrote in message
    news:bduefh$1t2$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Unfortunately there is no book Silvia. The publisher I wrote it for
    (Wrox)
    > went bankrupt before it was published. I did however get my rights
    reverted
    > to me and I am free to do whatever I want with it. It will appear on a
    web
    > site, free of charge as soon as we get the site up and I finish editing
    the
    > content for use on the web. An announcement will be made on this group
    when
    > we're there...
    > The cartoon illustration can be achieved using two copies of a photograph
    > with some styles applied to each. Looks like Ilya has provided something
    > which can do the job for you. If not, then I'll try and post my styles by
    > the end of the day with some very brief instructions.
    >
    > Rich
    >
    > --
    > Richard Blenkinsopp
    > [url]www.richiebee.ca[/url]
    > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Fireworks
    > [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
    > Contributor and Moderator for Escogitando
    > [url]www.escogitando.it[/url]
    > "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:bdtj1q$m5f$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > Recently you posted a link to this page : [url]http://www.richiebee.ca/escog/[/url]
    > > where you mention that this was written for 'the Fireworks book'. Which
    > book
    > > is that?
    > > Also, I'd like to know how to create cartoon illustrations from
    > photographs
    > > like in one of the pictures that you posted.
    > > TIA.
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Marlon De Jesus - MMTS Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee

    Hi Ilya, EXACTLY what I was looking for. REALLY great stuff you have
    there.What would people like me do without geniuses like you? Thanks a
    million!


    Silvia Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee


    "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bdv7d9$lpp$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Just curious about something: it almost doubles the file size every time I
    > apply an effect. I guess that's the nature of the beast, huh?
    >
    It's a quite complicated issue, involving two main parts:

    1) How the Fireworks works :-) FW uses some "extended" version of PNG, i.e.
    it adds some "non-standard" things above the "standard" things. Typical PNG
    file saved from FW consist from two parts - "standard" one, like IDAT chunk
    containing flattened image, and "proprietary" one, that contains layers etc
    etc, which are not allowed by the standard and are "invisible" to other
    programs, yet extremely useful for FW itself. That's a smart decision: you
    don't have to have any "special" image browser for browsing/previewing your
    files - for the recent Windows versions, the stuff included in Windows
    distribution will do. For the older Windows versions, I personally recommend
    [url]www.xnview.com[/url] - free viewer\browser that does not understand anything about
    "FW-specific" things but displays FW-made PNGs quite well because they
    contain enough "standard" things. So, quite many programs will show you the
    "standard" part of the file, ignoring the rest, yet FW itself will be able
    to use all the "non-standard" part. As a side effect of this decision, PNG
    files saved from FW may be many times larger than that saved from some other
    program - just because the formers contain all the "smart" things, which
    often duplicate the "standard" things. Apparently, I can give you good
    advice - never ever use PNGs "saved" from FW for your pages. You *must* use
    "export", not "save", because "export" removes all the non-standard stuff.
    "Save" is for you working project, just for you, it saves all the info
    important for the image developer. "Export" is for the final product, for
    clients, it saves only the things they should see. Files created by "Save"
    are always bigger that those created by "Export" because they contain all
    the stuff that makes them perfectly editable. Well, you got the idea :-)

    2) How the PNG compression works. PNG is compressed format; as a result, the
    file size does not depend *only* on the number of pixels (like in
    uncompressed BMP format). It also depends on the colors of that pixels and
    on that how the pixels are distributed across the image. As a result,
    applying any filter to the image may change it's "compressability" and, as a
    result, change the file size.

    So, back to the practical stuff:

    The size of the files saved by FW should not bother you at all. They are
    just for you to store. For other people to view the files, use "Export";
    choose appropriate format (it doesn't have to be PNG. It may be JPEG, for
    example - JPEGs are lossy but much smaller), choose appropriate quality
    settings. That's what the FW's "preview" features are for - you can visually
    choose the settings, so that the resulting file is as small as possible, yet
    retains enough quality.

    And yes, of course, I assume you're not comparing, say, JPEG originals to
    resulting PNGs - such a comparison is absolutely invalid because it involves
    two absolutely different compression algorithms. Everything may happen to
    the file size when you change the compression scheme - the filter applied in
    between has nothing to do with that.

    Ilyich.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/[/url] - Photoshop plug-in filters
    "I don't know what all the trouble is about, but I'm sure
    it must be your fault."
    C3PO, Star Wars
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Ilya Razmanov Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee


    "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bdv5fv$ici$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Hi Ilya, EXACTLY what I was looking for. REALLY great stuff you have
    > there.
    Thanks a lot. It's always nice to know people like my little creatures.
    >What would people like me do without geniuses like you?
    Hm, well, I guess without some number of geniuses (or "genii"?) people just
    wouldn't have the computers and software to work (and hence have problems)
    with, so they life would be much easier :-)))

    Ilyich.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/[/url] - Photoshop plug-in filters
    "It has 3 settings: 'Cook','Jet defrost' and 'Mutilate beyond recognition'"
    - Laverne, Day of the Tentacle.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Ilya Razmanov Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee

    Thanks about that lesson, Ilya. I didn't know that about pngs and FW.
    Confusing though, so if all browsers would support png and people would
    start using them on their sites, then it would not be a good thing to use
    those made in FW, because of the large size?
    > So, back to the practical stuff:
    >
    > The size of the files saved by FW should not bother you at all. They are
    > just for you to store. For other people to view the files, use "Export";
    > choose appropriate format (it doesn't have to be PNG. It may be JPEG, for
    > example - JPEGs are lossy but much smaller), choose appropriate quality
    > settings. That's what the FW's "preview" features are for - you can
    visually
    > choose the settings, so that the resulting file is as small as possible,
    yet
    > retains enough quality.
    Yes, of course I know. After downloading the effects I was excited about
    them and my initial reaction was to go overboard applying them. So for
    example, I had a jpeg image, reduced the file size by setting the export
    options to about 10kb and after applying the effects would end up previewing
    as 30kb or more. Even adding not too much of the effect (low settings), it
    would still approx. double the size to about 20kb. I thought that was rather
    a large increase. But I guess I'll just have to constrain myself and not go
    overboard :)
    S.


    Silvia Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee


    "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:be0s37$43u$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Thanks about that lesson, Ilya. I didn't know that about pngs and FW.
    > Confusing though, so if all browsers would support png and people would
    > start using them on their sites, then it would not be a good thing to use
    > those made in FW, because of the large size?
    It depends on what do you mean by "made in FW". My point was that PNGs saved
    using File->Save are large because they contain a lot of info necessary for
    image developer but unnecessary for the viewer. However, the PNGs saved
    using "Export" features do not contain all these extra things. So they are
    much smaller. So, there are two ways to "make" PNG with FW: using "Save" is
    for your working project, further editing; using "Export" is for showing
    PNGs to the others. The former produces files that are as much editable as
    possible, the latter produces very compact files. They serve different
    purposes, you just have to know which one to choose :-)

    In fact, FW, in my opinion, has one of the best PNG optimizers available.
    I've compared FW's PNG output to that of pngcrush (command line program that
    uses "brute force" approach, testing ALL possible filtering\compression
    option to find the combination that gives the best compression for each
    particular image) and found that PNGs produced by FW "Export" normally are
    only 0..3% larger that that produced by pngcrush. Needless to say, pngcrush
    is about 100 times slower (because of its brute force approach) than FW
    export. So, I can safely say that FW has one of the best PNG compressors
    avalable.
    >
    > > So, back to the practical stuff:
    > >
    > > The size of the files saved by FW should not bother you at all. They are
    > > just for you to store. For other people to view the files, use "Export";
    > > choose appropriate format (it doesn't have to be PNG. It may be JPEG,
    for
    > > example - JPEGs are lossy but much smaller), choose appropriate quality
    > > settings. That's what the FW's "preview" features are for - you can
    > visually
    > > choose the settings, so that the resulting file is as small as possible,
    > yet
    > > retains enough quality.
    >
    > Yes, of course I know. After downloading the effects I was excited about
    > them and my initial reaction was to go overboard applying them. So for
    > example, I had a jpeg image, reduced the file size by setting the export
    > options to about 10kb and after applying the effects would end up
    previewing
    > as 30kb or more. Even adding not too much of the effect (low settings), it
    > would still approx. double the size to about 20kb. I thought that was
    rather
    > a large increase. But I guess I'll just have to constrain myself and not
    go
    > overboard :)
    > S.
    JPEGs are created specifically for smooth color gradients. Such a gradients
    constitute the main part of the photos, so JPEGs work especially well for
    smooth images like photos. However, JPEGs are not as good for sharp edges
    and one pixel details. As you can see, my "Simplifier" tends to create sharp
    edges with high local contrast :-) That's why, indeed, it can make image
    less compressible. I wouldn't say that it ALWAYS make image less
    compressible, but I'd expect it to happen rather often. Apparently, you may
    try to add some noise to the image (there is a noise\diffuse filter in my
    package as well) and I beleive you'll see that it makes image less
    compressible as well. On the other side, blurring the image makes it more
    compressible :-) BTW it leads to some useful trick: when I have the photo of
    some object on some background, I often try to select and somewhat sharpen
    the object, then select and somewhat blur the background. It makes object
    "stand out" and be more clear, yet makes the background more compressible.

    And well, back to the "Simplifier" filter, one more practical advice: quite
    often, it is useful to apply some blur BEFORE running the "Simplifier".
    Another trick to play with :-)))

    Ilyich.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/[/url] - Photoshop plug-in filters
    "Max, where should I put this so it doesn't hurt anyone we know or
    care about?" - Sam, Sam and Max hit the road
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Ilya Razmanov Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: ISO: Richiebee


    "Silvia" <silviapumhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:be0v6v$95d$1forums.macromedia.com...
    >
    > > It depends on what do you mean by "made in FW". My point was that PNGs
    > saved
    > > using File->Save are large because they contain a lot of info necessary
    > for
    > > image developer but unnecessary for the viewer. However, the PNGs saved
    > > using "Export" features do not contain all these extra things. So they
    are
    > > much smaller.
    >
    > Okay, makes more sense now. Export removes the non-standard stuff.
    Yes. That's the way FW works - "Save" is for you, the image developer. It
    doesn't change colors, it keeps text editable, it retains layers and so on
    and so on. However, it creates big doents. Once you decide to publish
    your work, you must ALWAYS go to "Export" - it will remove unnecessary
    colors, flatten layers, remove invisible objects, slice/hotspot info, all
    the non-standard stuff, and create the files of least possible size. So,
    "save" the files for your future use, and "export" them for pubishing. Never
    do otherwise :-) "Save" is for you - keep a copy of your project, write it
    on a CD so it will be available once you need it. "Export" is for creating
    final output for the others to view - not as much editable but much more
    compact.

    Ilyich.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
    [url]http://photoshop.msk.ru/[/url] - Photoshop plug-in filters
    "Oh, good! You're not dead yet. I might still get a quote!" -
    Miranda, Full Throttle
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Ilya Razmanov Guest

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