Keyboard shortcuts for special characters?

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Hi

I'm new to Illustrator so please bare with me. I can't find the key combinations for 'Thin space', 'en space' and 'em space'. I know there is the glyphs palette but thats not very useful for finding these space characters! I've been through Illustrator's help and nothing there.

Thanks in advance

Les

[Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com]

Try fooling with the option command, shift keys and the arrow keys.

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Wade

All that does is kern the space, and IMO should not be considered a substitute for the correct characters. I use InDesign and the space characters are always at my fingertips or even through a menu (i.e. Type>Insert white space>Thin space etc.), I just assumed that there would be a similar functionality in Illustrator.

Cheers
Les

[Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com]

You would think! I think it is a good feature request and perhaps even with custom white space specs. Good call a major over site.

[Dee Holmes]

More info please. What is this used for? An example perhaps?

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Hi Dee

I often use a thin space when setting something like 59cm to slightly separate the number from the units or in phone numbers i.e. 03 479 8756

I use Em spaces frequently in Tables of Contents to separate the Page numbers from the content i.e. Introduction-em space-number

Cheers
Les

[Dee Holmes]

So how is that different from kerning?

[Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com]

Well actually in the preferences you can set the kerning to a specific space like 20/1000 of an em space or 200/1000 em or 1000/1000 em which would actually be 1 em space. then use combo will divide that to 1/10th of an em and the 1/100 of and em.

Perhaps that gives you what you need.

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Because they are set width characters that can be inserted with one command and all your spacing will be consistent.

It's like saying, why have an en & em dash when you could just use 2 or 3 hyphens kerned together, more work and the chance for inconsistency increased.

Cheers
Les

[Dee Holmes]

O.K. I think I understand. Don't get me wrong, I do not know how to accomplish what you are trying to achieve.

But, I think I've seen a setting in preferences about this. It might have been for different font styles, I don't know. (It could have even been in Quark for all I know.)

[Phosphor@adobeforums.com]

What OS are you using, Les?

Under OS9.x and earlier, look for "KeyCaps" utility.

Under OS X, look for "Keyboard Viewer".

These will give you a visual feedback on what happens when you press your modifier keys.

[jonf@adobeforums.com]

How do you "see" a space? I don't think en-spaces etc. or part of the standard ascii character sets, and if so, I wouldn't know how to recognize it with key caps. I know Quark has settings for these spaces, but maybe not AI?

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

High quality typesetting requires such details as thin, en and em spaces. They're not "seen" in the sense that one "looks at" them. They are useful options when one wants to create even typographic color (itself not really "seen" as much as "sensed").

For some reason, I have a vague recollection of discovering these spacing variations in AICS in some obscure and non-intuitive place. But I've looked all over and haven't found them. Faulty memory I s'pose. They'd be nice to have.

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for all of the responces.

From what I gather these space characters are equated on the fly by the application from the space character (or maybe it reads the metrics from the M glyph?). They are not built into the font.

And so far it appears Illustrator CS does not have this ability built into the program, an oversight maybe?

Phosphor

OS X.2.8 with Font Reserve

Anyway, thanks again

Les

[Thomas_Phinney@adobeforums.com]

In principle, an app can create them on the fly, and doesn't even need to refer to the space character. They're all relative to the point size.

These characters do have codepoints defined in Unicode, but they are not usually present in individual fonts. There's no need to have them encoded in the fonts, any more than you need to put most "control characters" like the return and linebreak into fonts.

Regards,

T

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Thomas, what's the practical consequence of this "on the fly" principle? Is there a way to actually access and use these characters (e.g., thin, en, em spaces) when setting type with the AICS engine?

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

Now this is bizarre, and it seems to point to the "oversight" theory.

Create a text frame and type, "Here is some text." Choose Type > Show Hidden Characters

With the text selected (either Selection or Type tool), choose Edit > Find and Replace.

In the Find field, type a space character. In the Replace with field, click on the popup menu at the right side of the field. In the list, notice you can choose Em Space, En Space, Thin Space, Hair Space, and Non-breaking Space. Choose Em Space (it's easiest to see).

Choose Find and then Replace All.

Voila! Three em spaces!

So AICS has the concept of em spaces, en spaces and thin spaces, but it provides no UI for actually creating them either with a keystroke, a menu, or a context menu.

[Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com]

Oh, I knew that! 8)

You would think that this oversight would be addressed at some point.

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

WAY TO BE, STEVE WERNER! THAT's where I saw these options months ago. Wow, would have NEVER thought to go Find & Replace. I'm sure the issue will be addressed, but in the meantime, there IS a way (albeit awkward and cumbersome) to set these really elegant gems in type!

Thanks SO much for finding what I was so sure I saw in AICS but couldn't for the life of me remember where.

[Les_O_Neill@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Steve

Cumbersome, but at least now I know how to get at them

Cheers
Les