Professional Web Applications Themes

Layers palette - new objects arecreated/inserted at the position of the "listing in - Adobe Illustrator Windows

In Ilustrator CS is was possible to create a new object on top of a any object by moving the "listing indicator" in the layers palette. The "listing indicator" is the black triangle in the right top corner. If a object listing was selected, drawn or placed objects were inserted above the object. In Illustrator CS2 this seems not possible anymore. The "listing indicator" can only be set on a layer or group. Means that drawn objects are inserted to to the topmost position of that group or layer. So, the ability of inserting a object on top of an ...

  1. #1

    Default Layers palette - new objects arecreated/inserted at the position of the "listing in

    In Ilustrator CS is was possible to create a new object on top of a any object by moving the "listing indicator" in the layers palette. The "listing indicator" is the black triangle in the right top corner. If a object listing was selected, drawn or placed objects were inserted above the object.

    In Illustrator CS2 this seems not possible anymore. The "listing indicator" can only be set on a layer or group. Means that drawn objects are inserted to to the topmost position of that group or layer.

    So, the ability of inserting a object on top of an object seems to be lost.
    Any reason for that?
    Gerd_Vanderostyne@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Layers: new objects are created at theposition of the "listing indicator"

    Yes, there is a reason, in fact two of them, but it is complicated.

    You may notice in CS and earlier versions, that while you can move the insertion indicator to an arbitrary place, it never stays there. As soon as you draw or paste any object, the insertion indicator moves up to the closest layer containing that object. So it is not possible in earlier versions to set your insertion indicator to draw into a particular group, and keep drawing a sequence of multiple objects into that group. You would have to keep moving the indicator back after each insertion. In practice, that was annoying enough that people who wanted to draw a sequence of multiple objects into the same group would usually just let them all get drawn at the top of the layer, and then move them after the fact.

    You may also notice in CS and earlier versions, that while you can set the insertion indicator to be above a particular path or other non-container object, you cannot set it to be immediately above a particular group or sublayer, because moving it to that location means to draw into the container, not above it.

    So, along came the Live Paint feature in CS2. A very common workflow with Live Paint is to want to keep drawing, for hours maybe, into the same Live Paint group, as if it were your whole world. For technical reasons, Live Paint could not be made to be a layer function. (There is a concept called "plugin groups" which underlies blends, compound shapes, envelopes, and other special active containers, and their architecture is incompatible with that of layers.) So it was necessary to support Live Paint to fix the problem of "sticky non-layer insertion." While motivated by Live Paint, it can be useful for other purposes as well.

    So, given the task of making a non-layer insertion point sticky, the question arises as to where the insertion point should go after inserting a new object. If your doent contains objects A and B, and you put your insertion point between them, and then insert a new object C, you probably don't want the insertion point to stay recorded as "above B", because that would make your fourth object go below C. More likely you want it to go above C. If you recorded your insertion points as "above" the object that the marker was on, you would have to keep floating it up, so that after each insertion it got moved to the object you just inserted. But what if that object is itself a container? You probably don't want to insert into the container you just pasted in. So we would need to come up with a user interface for distinguishing between setting the insertion point above a group or other container, and setting it into the top of one. Perhaps an indicator that could be either on a row or between rows. But then it might be confused with, or conflict visually with, the drag feedback that occurs when dragging rows or selections within the Layers palette. Maybe put it on the other side?

    Such issues are of course solvable, but they get complex, and Illustrator is already complex enough that it is hard for many people to get their minds around. So rather than complicate it further, we decided that the rule would be that insertion points could only be into the top of containers.

    To get a new object behind an existing specific object, I usually just drag it there in the Layers palette after inserting it. In earlier versions, you would have had to access that row in the Layers palette to put the insertion indicator there anyway. (Some people prefer to Cut and then Paste Behind, but I prefer the palette drag method.)
    Teri Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Layers: new objects are created at theposition of the "listing indicator"

    Hi Teri,

    Thanks for your long and well-explaining answer!
    You're absolutely right that there were situations where the "listing indicator" was not consistent like inserting above a group... However for some use cases it was very handy.
    By restricting this feature, you get a more consistent behavior and that is also very important.

    I did not used the Live Paint tool yet but I will try this in one of the upcoming days.
    Gerd_Vanderostyne@adobeforums.com Guest

Similar Threads

  1. Lost Layers Palette; Reset Palette Layout to Default?
    By Eric_Oliver@adobeforums.com in forum Adobe Illustrator Windows
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 21st, 07:51 AM
  2. Can't Open Layers Palette or Symbols Palette
    By Mervin_Aronoff@adobeforums.com in forum Adobe Illustrator Windows
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 9th, 10:15 PM
  3. Layers palette
    By Joe_leMonnier@adobeforums.com in forum Adobe Illustrator Macintosh
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 20th, 04:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139