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Linux as an office desktop - Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:33:38 +0100, Loke <[baijxz at mailme dot dk]com> wrote:   Running RAID 0 on IDE is pretty much suicidal in my opinion. No thank you, my IDE RAID 1 has saved me at least once already.   Ok ok, so it's not really THAT applicable in the corporate world, but it's still a PITA.   I'm NOT going back to a non-RAID IDE config as far as I can help it. And standalone Raid 0/1 cards are still more expensive than just buying a board with the integrated IDE RAID controller. I did get a ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:33:38 +0100, Loke <[baijxz at mailme dot
    dk]com> wrote:
     

    Running RAID 0 on IDE is pretty much suicidal in my opinion. No thank
    you, my IDE RAID 1 has saved me at least once already.
     

    Ok ok, so it's not really THAT applicable in the corporate world, but
    it's still a PITA.
     

    I'm NOT going back to a non-RAID IDE config as far as I can help it.
    And standalone Raid 0/1 cards are still more expensive than just
    buying a board with the integrated IDE RAID controller.

    I did get a router just to solve this problem... except Debian will
    lose internet connectivity, some inability to resolve DNS every so
    often while a W2K system connected to the same network/router would
    still happily hum along. Yes, I did put the NS IP into
    /etc/resolve.conf

    But it's still a pain (though lesser) to use since I can't run X on
    anything except VESA drivers, the new nVidia ones won't compile
    despite my downloading of the 2.4.18 kernel source just for it.

    Of course it can't extract binary versions from the nvidia server due
    to the strange internet behaviour. At 60Hz refresh, it's making me
    feel nauseous within a few minutes.
     

    Heh, I know, but neither did Mandrake (didn't work with the RAID
    controller or USB ADSL).

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips The little lost angel <a?n?g?e?lrigrevol.moc.com> wrote: 

    I don't know much about Debian. I run Slackware and have
    never had a connectivity/DNS problem with my [Seimens] router.
    I just run `dhcpcd` and it takes care of `ifconfig`, `route`
    and DNS. /etc/resolve.conf points at the router.

    The router hangs occasionally, and will get bounced and
    reconnect weekly, often with a new IP, gateway and DNS servers
    via DHCP from the telco [DSL].
     

    Haven't tried the latest nVidia drivers, but never had any trouble
    installing them. Two packages, you have to do in the right order.
    Just the usual tar & make.
     

    Binary versions? I just grab the tar.gz's. The packages
    probably only work with pre-packaged kernels and I never
    use them. Sympathies on the 60 Hz, but it shouldn't be so
    bad for you since AFAIK fluorescents are 50 Hz where you are.
     

    You _know_ better than to use poxy hardware.

    -- Robert
     
    Robert Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:33:54 GMT, Robert Redelmeier
    <net.invalid> wrote:
     

    Hmm, I'll try looking for this dhcpcd thingy and see if it works for
    me.
     

    The older one are in two packages, the newest one I got off nvidia.com
    says it has replaced them with a single package instead. It runs some
    kind of sh script and tries to install the correct default binary, but
    if it doesn't find a prepackaged one, then it attempts to ftp from
    nvidia (ADSL problem so no use), when that fails, it attempts to
    compile a binary based on the the system... naturally the compilation
    also failed on mine.
     

    Heehe, I don't stare at the flourescent tubes! :P
     

    I know they aren't as good but tell it to my ISP about the USB modem.
    They KNOW people use Ethernet modems for sharing so they won't sell
    you a package with Ethernet ones... unless you pay about 3x the price
    for a "corporate" package upon which they give you a router/modem.

    As for the IDE raid, it's really the most cost effective way to get
    RAID 1. Even cheap RAID 1 standalone cards aren't that cheap... about
    the price of a basic board. Most mid level boards are starting to come
    with S-ATA/P-ATA raid as a standard feature, so I honestly think "out
    of the box" support for onboard IDE raid controllers are pretty much a
    necessity.

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:22:13 +0000, The little lost angel wrote:
     

    I would think that most office desktops would subscribe to the 'all the
    data on the server, and reimage/replace the desktop HD at the slightest
    sign of trouble' philosophy rather than bother with IDE RAID and 2 disks
    in each machine.

    You've still got to 'fix' a machine when a disk dies, but using mirroring
    has doubled the chances of any machine needing to be 'fixed' - even
    without considering the extra drives heat. You are only improving the
    urgency of the fix.

    IDE RAID does sound worthwhile for small businesses though. ie a small
    number of non standardised PCs and very little tech support on hand.

    While I think Debian is great, it wouldn't be my first choice for desktops
    with slightly exotic hardware.

    Cheers
    Anton
    AD. Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:03:49 +1300, AD. <net> wrote: 
     [/ref]
     
     
     

    Also: RAID is worthless for software or user glitches. It will happily make
    two perfect copies of a corrupted disc instead of one. It is no substitute for
    backups.
    TCS Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    In comp.os.linux.setup TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizerp.o.b.o.x.com> wrote: [/ref]
     

    While the above is perfectly true (and noteworthy), I'd like to add
    that there are imbetweens that you can use. A mirror refreshed every 24hrs
    is something I find very useful for repairing errors made less than a
    day ago (and noticed within one day).

    Experience suggests that the optimum time for refreshing the mirror is
    about 2am if it is for home dirs, and about 5am if it is for system
    dirs.

    Peter
    P.T. Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips The little lost angel <a?n?g?e?lrigrevol.moc.com> wrote: 

    An excellent reason to avoid upgrading -- if it ain't broke ...
     

    A little odd. Maybe teething pains for the nVidia new
    packaging system. One thing you could help -- make sure the
    headers in /usr/src/linux match the kernel version you're
    using (don't do make mrproper or even clean) and install a
    fresh kernel with modules made. Linux is very fussy about
    not installing modules (like nVidia) that don't match kernel
    versions.
     

    No, they stare at _you_. I don't think anything is magically
    horrible about 60 Hz except sync with lighting. 72 Hz might
    be just as bad if lighting was sync'd.
     

    So buy a new ethernet DSL modem. My ISP actually encourages sharing
    because they're trying to compete against CATV cable.
     

    Agreed. Never done RAID. I've never filled a disk and I burn backups.

    -- Robert

    Robert Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:20:28 GMT, Robert Redelmeier
    <net.invalid> wrote:
     
    >
    >An excellent reason to avoid upgrading -- if it ain't broke ...[/ref]

    Erm, the problem is... it's broke, that's why I started sniffing
    around :P

    the default driver "nv" only supports up to GeForce3 and basically
    dies when I try to use it with my GF4MX.

    The two packages from Debian marked as stable... was the same as the
    one on the ISO so no good either. Hence the only thing left was the
    latest ones from nVidia. I will look into the header stuff... probably
    involve figuring out how to make the system download the source
    package again.

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On 28 Oct 2003 14:06:11 GMT, TCS
    <The-Central-Scrutinizerp.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
     [/ref]

    Well, bulk of the small to mid businesses I've seen, don't have such a
    thing as a data server. Mostly peer to peer if they have a network...
    and a surprising number don't even have that. So whatever they have,
    will be on each individual PC, RAID 1 would have saved quite a few of
    them from the needless trouble.

    While backups are obviously the better way to protect important data
    from being lost... most users have an unfortunate tendency to go slack
    on their backup schedule a few weeks after the "crisis".

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:36:09 +0000, The little lost angel wrote:
     [/ref]
    >
    > Well, bulk of the small to mid businesses I've seen, don't have such a
    > thing as a data server. Mostly peer to peer if they have a network...
    > and a surprising number don't even have that. So whatever they have,
    > will be on each individual PC, RAID 1 would have saved quite a few of
    > them from the needless trouble.[/ref]

    Agreed about the small businesses (as I noted), but the article was about
    an 800 user network, and Yousufs comments about IT Managers indicated
    small businesses weren't the entire focus of discussion :)

    Cheers
    Anton
    AD. Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:20:28 +0000, Robert Redelmeier wrote:
     

    I find 60Hz (and 72Hz) painful even in natural light.

    Maybe I'm just sensitive :)

    Cheers
    Anton
    AD. Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    The little lost angel wrote:
     
    >>
    >>An excellent reason to avoid upgrading -- if it ain't broke ...[/ref]
    >
    > Erm, the problem is... it's broke, that's why I started sniffing
    > around :P
    >
    > the default driver "nv" only supports up to GeForce3 and basically
    > dies when I try to use it with my GF4MX.[/ref]

    Hmm mine ran the default nv on a GF4-4200ti. I upgraded to the nvidia
    drivers for twinview and better openGL support.
     

    X is REAL picky about what's in the config file. My guess is the config
    isn't right rather than something wrong with nv.

    --

    Stacey
    stacey Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    TCS wrote:
     
    >
    > Also: RAID is worthless for software or user glitches. It will happily
    > make
    > two perfect copies of a corrupted disc instead of one. It is no
    > substitute for backups.[/ref]

    Yep, I think a copy of the drive send to another drive about once a week (or
    daily?) is a better idea than raid 1 and then STILL backup critical data in
    another form.

    --

    Stacey
    stacey Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:06:05 -0500, stacey <com> wrote:
     

    Well, I thought so at first. But I mv the original config elsewhere
    then run xf86config to generate a ultra bare one, everything generic
    generic generic sort of thing.

    VGA mode worked... except I don't see how useful a 320x400 or
    something like that kind of resolution is going to get me any work
    done.

    Did the same thing again with VESA and it worked nicely, except for
    the 60Hz headache.

    After this two, I would assume the base config was working. Switching
    back to "nv" killed it again. In the log, it's right after the nv
    driver get loaded, which lists only until GF3, and then a no screen
    found error.

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:29:07 +1300, "AD." <net> wrote:
     

    oops, me bad :P
    Sorry, I guess I wasn't exactly feeling charitable about Linux after a
    week of frustration with it. It doesn't help that when I tried the
    same setup on my friend's computer... it worked via default... >:(

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
    The Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    The little lost angel wrote:
     
    >
    > Well, I thought so at first. But I mv the original config elsewhere
    > then run xf86config to generate a ultra bare one, everything generic
    > generic generic sort of thing.
    >
    > VGA mode worked... except I don't see how useful a 320x400 or
    > something like that kind of resolution is going to get me any work
    > done.
    >
    > Did the same thing again with VESA and it worked nicely, except for
    > the 60Hz headache.
    >
    > After this two, I would assume the base config was working. Switching
    > back to "nv" killed it again. In the log, it's right after the nv
    > driver get loaded, which lists only until GF3, and then a no screen
    > found error.
    >[/ref]

    What version of X are you using? One problem with Debian is the "stable"
    releases are sometimes REALLY old versions that are now considered stable.
    I was using Mandrake 9.1 which may have a much never version of X where the
    nv drivers do support GF4's? Seriously I know the "cool" linux geeks love
    debian but for a first time linux user (or someone using newish hardware)
    it's not a good choice.
    --

    Stacey
    stacey Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Linux as an office desktop

    The little lost angel wrote:
     
    >
    > oops, me bad :P
    > Sorry, I guess I wasn't exactly feeling charitable about Linux after a
    > week of frustration with it. It doesn't help that when I tried the
    > same setup on my friend's computer... it worked via default... >:(
    >[/ref]

    Older hardware?

    --

    Stacey
    stacey Guest

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