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MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE - Mac Networking

I'm trying to get and old SE working on a TCP/IP network. It's an original 68000-based SE, not an SE/30, so installing Open Transport isn't possible. I've upgraded everything to System 7.5.3, but I still can't get network access. Does anyone know how to do this using MacTCP (v2.0.6)? It's connecting to a home LAN served by a Linksys wireless router (with wired ports, obviously...) and the network adaptor is a Dayna Ethernet E/SE - all diagnostics say it's working fine. Cheers, Ian...

  1. #1

    Default MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    I'm trying to get and old SE working on a TCP/IP network. It's an
    original 68000-based SE, not an SE/30, so installing Open Transport
    isn't possible.

    I've upgraded everything to System 7.5.3, but I still can't get
    network access. Does anyone know how to do this using MacTCP (v2.0.6)?
    It's connecting to a home LAN served by a Linksys wireless router
    (with wired ports, obviously...) and the network adaptor is a Dayna
    Ethernet E/SE - all diagnostics say it's working fine.


    Cheers,
    Ian
    Ian Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Ian McCall <org> wrote:
     

    Given that DHCP is still broken under Mac OS 8.6, I'd say set a
    permanent static IP adres, not using DHCP...

    Arnoud

    --
    For replying to me personally, please use my first and last name
    in the address. Please blame virii and spammers..
    Antwoorden op dit bericht? Mijn voornaam en achternaam gebruiken
    in het email adres. Geef spammers en virussen de schuld..
    Arnoud Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Arnoud Helmantel <com> wrote:
     

    It's a long time ago that I uset MacTCP... so I am not really an expert
    on it. Setting a permanent static IP address is what I would also have
    suggested to the original poster.

    But your remark on DHCP and 8.6 confuses me a bit. I have a Powerbook
    Wallstreet which was working with 8.6 and DHCP for a long time perfectly
    (now it runs 9.1). No idea why you call DHCP "broken" under 8.6...

    Best wishes, Christian.

    --
    Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
    Hilfe für Strassenkinder in Ghana: <http://www.chance-for-children.org>
    Christian Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <google.com>,
    org (Ian McCall) wrote:
     

    In the MacTCP control panel at the bottom click on "more..."-> in the
    left pane, under "Obtain Address:", select "Server".

    Works for me on a SE/30 under OS 7.1.

    --
    Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>
    Sander Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Christian <de> wrote:
     
    >
    > It's a long time ago that I uset MacTCP... so I am not really an expert
    > on it. Setting a permanent static IP address is what I would also have
    > suggested to the original poster.
    >
    > But your remark on DHCP and 8.6 confuses me a bit. I have a Powerbook
    > Wallstreet which was working with 8.6 and DHCP for a long time perfectly
    > (now it runs 9.1). No idea why you call DHCP "broken" under 8.6...[/ref]

    Well, memory gets a bit hazy that far back, but I recall a lot of people
    complaining about loosing DHCP leases and having problems with cable
    providers using DHCP. I could be mistaken of course, but still, DHCP
    does not seem like a valid option using MacTCP.

    Arnoud

    --
    For replying to me personally, please use my first and last name
    in the address. Please blame virii and spammers..
    Antwoorden op dit bericht? Mijn voornaam en achternaam gebruiken
    in het email adres. Geef spammers en virussen de schuld..
    Arnoud Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <1g30x5b.9a6y9x1pranmzN%com>,
    com (Arnoud Helmantel) wrote:
     

    The DHCP client, included in the versions of Open Transport prior to
    2.5.2, is broken. It is incompatible with many DHCP servers - so it
    misses assignments (requires retries or outright fails). And it doesn't
    try to renew its lease when the lease is 50% expired. Instead, it waits
    until about 10 seconds are left. Then, because of the server
    incompatibilies, the lease ends up expiring before the renewal occurs --
    which kills off all your ip connections.

    The server compatibility problems were fixed in OT 2.5.2 (which requires
    Mac OS 9.0 or later). The renewal-cycle problem was poked at, but never
    fixed completely.

    This is not a problem with MacTCP. It's DHCP client has other issues. :)

    Bottom line: Try DHCP in MacTCP. If it works, great. If it doesn't,
    just go static for that Mac.

    - Dan.
    --
    - Psychoceramic Emeritus
    - South Jersey, USA, Earth
    Dan Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Sander Tekelenburg <invalid> wrote in message news:<euro.net>...
     

    Hmm. No joy for me I'm afraid. A bit of reading shows that MacTCP uses
    the BootP protocol, not DHCP. A bit more reading says that supporting
    BootP is an optional extra in DHCP servers - you must be using one
    that supports it, I must be using one that doesn't.

    So...switch back to manual mode. Still no joy. The setup:

    Router: 192.168.1.1
    MacTCP: manual address, gateway 192.168.1.1, Class C 192.168.1.50,
    Subnet 255.255.255.0

    Result? Nothing. Not a thing. Now, DNS setup might be wrong - I have
    to say I'm unsure about DNS under MacTCP. I've set it to use my ISP's
    DNS server, but it insists on taking a domain section. No idea, so
    I've used my ISPs (.ntlworld.com).

    Still nothing though - can't access LAN machines by either dotted
    decimal or name. Can't access the outside world of course. More often
    than not I get a crash when running net software (trap unimplemented
    or just address error). Yet all software and hardware diagnostics run
    fine.

    Any clues? Is my manual set up correct, or have I n it somehow?


    Cheers,
    Ian
    Ian Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Ian McCall <org> wrote:
     
    >
    > Hmm. No joy for me I'm afraid. A bit of reading shows that MacTCP uses
    > the BootP protocol, not DHCP. A bit more reading says that supporting
    > BootP is an optional extra in DHCP servers - you must be using one
    > that supports it, I must be using one that doesn't.
    >
    > So...switch back to manual mode. Still no joy. The setup:
    >
    > Router: 192.168.1.1
    > MacTCP: manual address, gateway 192.168.1.1, Class C 192.168.1.50,
    > Subnet 255.255.255.0
    >
    > Result? Nothing. Not a thing. Now, DNS setup might be wrong - I have
    > to say I'm unsure about DNS under MacTCP. I've set it to use my ISP's
    > DNS server, but it insists on taking a domain section. No idea, so
    > I've used my ISPs (.ntlworld.com).
    >
    > Still nothing though - can't access LAN machines by either dotted
    > decimal or name. Can't access the outside world of course. More often
    > than not I get a crash when running net software (trap unimplemented
    > or just address error). Yet all software and hardware diagnostics run
    > fine.
    >
    > Any clues? Is my manual set up correct, or have I n it somehow?[/ref]

    Have you tried to see if you could 'ping' the SE from another computer?
    And the address you have assigned is outside of the DHCP range to
    prevent duplicate ddresses?

    Arnoud


    --
    For replying to me personally, please use my first and last name
    in the address. Please blame virii and spammers..
    Antwoorden op dit bericht? Mijn voornaam en achternaam gebruiken
    in het email adres. Geef spammers en virussen de schuld..
    Arnoud Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <google.com>,
    org (Ian McCall) wrote:
     
    >
    > Hmm. No joy for me I'm afraid. A bit of reading shows that MacTCP uses
    > the BootP protocol, not DHCP. A bit more reading says that supporting
    > BootP is an optional extra in DHCP servers - you must be using one
    > that supports it[/ref]

    Ah yes, that's right. I should have mentioned that.

    --
    Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>
    Sander Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    com (Arnoud Helmantel) wrote in message news:<1g33dvn.bwx85kvxlvvpN%com>... 

    I'm trying to, but I can't find a Ping client (or responder) for 7.5.5
    on a 6800. I tried MacTCP Watcher 2.0, but it crashes with an
    'unimplented trap' exception if I try to run the ping test. The only
    thing I've got reliably running at present is Eudora Light, and that
    can't connect either. Regardless of using the name of my mail host or
    the dotted decimal, it always says "Trying to contact 0.0.0.0..".
    Which, of course, it cannot do.

     

    Yes. DHCP assigns from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.254, Mac is assigned
    192.168.1.50. I know static routing is working, as my IP-based printer
    has a static route and is accessible fine.

    Any further clues?: Thanks in advance for any information,
    Ian
    Ian Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <google.com>,
    org (Ian McCall) wrote:
     

    BootP is a subset of DHCP. To date, I've not seen a DHCP server that
    didn't fully support it. (insert pre-emptive wisecracks about crappy
    slow LinkSys products)
     
    [snip] 

    yup. Try this:

    Open MacTCP control panel.
    Select Ethernet.
    Click on the "More..." button.
    Obtain address: Manually.
    Use Class C addressing.
    Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
    Gateway Address: 192.168.1.1

    DNS information.. tricky setup. If your router is acting as a DNS cache
    (direct or forwarding) use its IP. If it isn't, then use your real
    ISP's DNS address. The table should look like this:

    fred.com. 192.168.1.1 default
    .. 192.168.1.1
    .. 192.168.1.1

    Note the three entries. This is to get around a time-out bug in
    MacTCP's resolver by creating three retries. "fred.com." is a fully
    qualified domain name - that is, it MUST end with a period. Of course,
    replace "fred.com" with your real domain name (or that of your ISP).
    And the two entries below that name MUST be just periods.

    Press OK to close the dialog.

    IF you're using Manual addressing, put the machine's assigned ip
    address, eg: 192.168.1.x, into the front window. IF you're using Server
    addressing (DHCP/BootP), leave that field alone.

    Close the control panel.
    Trash both MacTCP DNR (in System Folder) and MacTCP Prep (Prefs folder).
    Reboot.

    Use a ping tool to ping yourself, your router, etc, to verify you have
    basic ip connectivity. Then do some name server lookups to verify your
    dns resolver is working. Then try using standard apps, etc.

    Note that MacTCP is a rather primative control panel. It actually stores
    its settings in the control panel itself, and it doesn't reconfigure
    dynamically. So, if you change any settings at all, always trash those
    two files then reboot.

    HTH,
    - Dan.
    --
    - Psychoceramic Emeritus
    - South Jersey, USA, Earth
    Dan Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <google.com>,
    org (Ian McCall) wrote:
     

    If MacTCP isn't set up correctly, most stack-based tools will crash.

    MacTCP Watcher 2.0's functions were rolled into Anarchie 3.7.

    Try also WhatRoute. There should be vers available for older systems.
    http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~bryanc/

     

    DNS failure.
    (see my other reply for the proper name server set-up).

    - Dan.
    --
    - Psychoceramic Emeritus
    - South Jersey, USA, Earth
    Dan Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    Dan Cottler <com> wrote in message news:<bn1409$r820s$news.uni-berlin.de>... 

    Thanks for the help so far - yes, that's definitely it. I managed to
    get a copy of NetPresenz onto the machine, and I could see incoming
    connections from the rest of my LAN. The tools I've been using so far
    must be doing DNS lookups even on dotted decimal addresses.

    So...

    Situation is that DNS is still not working. I've set it up as follows:

    Three entries:

    ntl.com. 194.168.8.100
    .. 194.168.8.100
    .. 194.168.8.100 (ie. my ISP's DNS - verified from their
    help pages)


    I'm using a router which provides NAT. My actual outside world
    hostname is <somemachine>.winn.cable.ntl.com. Still no resolving of
    names (or dotted decimals internal to the LAN), although at least I
    now know that I'm definitely connected to the network and IP traffic
    is flowing.


    Cheers,
    Ian
    Ian Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <google.com>,
    org (Ian McCall) wrote:
     
    (ie. my ISP's DNS - verified from their help pages)

    Could be that they've locked out external access, but I see no DNS
    services at that IP.

    Try Verizon's DNS. 4.2.2.1 to 4.2.2.6

     

    That's half the battle, at least. :)

    - Dan.
    --
    - Psychoceramic Emeritus
    - South Jersey, USA, Earth
    Dan Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <bn8vmm$to7uh$news.uni-berlin.de>,
    Dan Cottler <com> wrote:
     

    Lately these servers have ed; they are causing problems for people
    in certain areas. They may act really slow. If it works, great! But if
    not, it may be those DNS servers acting crappy rather than the computer.

    Doug

    --
    Doug Brown - La Grande, OR - http://homepage.mac.com/macg3/doug/
    Idiot's Guide to Mac Cases - http://lightning.prohosting.com/~maccases/
    If you want to reply by email, remove "pleasenospam." and ".invalid"
    Doug Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE


    "Dan Cottler" <com> wrote in message
    news:bn8vmm$to7uh$news.uni-berlin.de... 
    > (ie. my ISP's DNS - verified from their help pages)
    >
    > Could be that they've locked out external access, but I see no DNS
    > services at that IP.
    >
    > Try Verizon's DNS. 4.2.2.1 to 4.2.2.6[/ref]

    This effort now looks doomed. No matter what I type in to the DNS settings,
    nothing works. I've tried with nameservers that work with other statically
    routed devices on my network (195.184.228.6/7), I've tried the Verizon
    numbers as suggested, I've tried using ntl.com. as the domain, I've tried
    using just . - I've tried everything I can think of. I've trashed
    preferences files, I've trashed the DNR responder...nothing. Not a pip. Yet
    the machine is definitely connected to the network, since I can ftp in to
    the box if I run NetPresenz on it.

    Bah. Really don't know what to try now.


    Cheers,
    Ian


    Ian Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: MacTCP and DHCP on a Mac SE

    In article <1t6nb.1945$server.ntli.net>,
    "Ian McCall" <org> wrote:
     

    From that SE, can you ping the name server? Can you do a direct ns
    lookup from within Mac TCP Watcher, if you tell it which name server to
    use?

    - Dan.
    --
    - Psychoceramic Emeritus
    - South Jersey, USA, Earth
    Dan Guest

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