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Master-page strangeness? - Adobe Indesign Windows

Tonight with ID CS, I created a new master page (that is, a two-page spread) based on an existing master page. I wanted the new master page to be headerless, so I selected and deleted its headers. I then discovered that this had deleted the first master's headers. I thought that when you "based" something on something else, you could then change the "copy" however you wanted, without changing the original. Otherwise, what's the point? I used Undo to restore all the headers. I then returned to the new master, and in its Options, changed its "Based on" setting from ...

  1. #1

    Default Master-page strangeness?

    Tonight with ID CS, I created a new master page (that is, a two-page spread) based on an existing master page. I wanted the new master page to be headerless, so I selected and deleted its headers. I then discovered that this had deleted the first master's headers.

    I thought that when you "based" something on something else, you could then change the "copy" however you wanted, without changing the original. Otherwise, what's the point?

    I used Undo to restore all the headers. I then returned to the new master, and in its Options, changed its "Based on" setting from the first master to "None." However, this removed ALL frames from the new master.

    Was that supposed to happen? When you create a new paragraph style and base it on an existing style, you can not only change it without affecting the original, but change its "based on" setting to "None" so that subsequent changes to the original style won't change the new style. Does all this work differently with master pages?
    Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    You can change a "based on" master page without changing the master page it's based on. In fact, the items coming from that master page should not be selectable unless you Ctrl + Shift-click them.

    I think you should throw away your InDesign preferences.
    Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Which I did---and which, as I wrote, caused the same elements to be deleted from the master I'd based this one on. I didn't think that was supposed to happen. A bug?

    I think you should throw away your InDesign preferences.




    Hey, it's not that big a deal---I like InDesign very much, for the most part...

    Oh, sorry---I thought you meant I should reconsider my preference for InDesign. :?)

    So certain Preferences settings could cause this? Which ones? I'd rather just fix those than turf all of them.
    Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Andy

    You saved me from starting another thread on this issue. I am still using ID 2, but your comments show that things don't seem to be getting better with CS.

    I find InDesign's (and QuarkXPress's for that matter) master pages quite flaky and I suggest that problems seem to occur after masters are duplicated and the duplicates are subsequently edited. With several jobs I have encountered the very same problem as you have with changes to duplicates affecting the originals, which shouldn't occur, as Steve says.

    I have a job at the moment where this is not occurring, but I suggest that the use of master copies is an issue. A colleague has produced a set of masters consisting of a band of colour at the page bottom, with just a page number sitting on top for most pages and several chapter-page variations that also have thumbnail pictures and contact details added.

    I am having a lot of trouble applying these masters. The simplest one frequently appears with the page number under the colour band or missing altogether. The chapter variations often have to be massaged by overriding each element so that it appears on top. I sometimes have to resort to deleting all master elements manually, applying None and then reapplying the required the master page. Even then I may not have got what I want. Once I even got a colour band when None was applied!

    Thank goodness this book is a short one and I have the time to persevere. As a longtime user of Ventura as well, I must say that with that program I am used to masters applying cleanly and definitely. I haven't used FrameMaker for a while, but I suspect that it would get its masters right as well. Unless master elements have been overridden or manually locked on a text page, they should disappear in a flash and be replaced with the new master elements. Also, floating misplaced elements which nearly always occur when a single page is added to an ID or a QXP doent are unforgivable in programs that claim to be able to be used for book production. Layout adjustmemt and the like don't seem to help.

    I must say that master page problems have occurred in most of the jobs I have done with ID2. I obviously can't suggest a solution other than Adobe revisting master pages and getting them right. I am convinced that the master pages have been properly set up by my colleague and me and should apply as we expect them to.
    Tony_Stuart@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?



    Tony Stuart> I haven't used FrameMaker for a while, but I suspect that
    it would get its masters right as well.




    I didn't trust my memory, so I just tried it (in FM 6):
    * I started a new doent, which appeared with the single default (right-side page) master.
    * I created a second master and made its frame smaller than the default master's.
    * I returned to the doent's body page (based on the default master), and pasted some text into its frame.
    * I changed the page to the 2nd master.
    * FM replaced the default master's frame with the 2nd master's and reformatted the text to fit the smaller frame.
    So the answer is, yes.
    Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Andy

    I am not surprised that FM6 got it right.

    Actually I believe master page problems are encouraged by programs that require frames for all text. As you probably know, Ventura flows its body text into the underlying page, which means that left and right page positioning is automatic. The only things that won't be located correctly are manually placed frames, which I avoid like the plague in Ventura, anchoring everything. Ventura therefore doesn't suffer from left-right misplacement just because the user has the audacity to add a single page. Has anyone at Adobe or Quark ever noticed what happens when a single page is added? Absolute havoc.

    And Adobe apparently has never noticed that duplicates will often mess up as well. I despair at the basic inadequacies of InDesign and QuarkXPress when it comes to basic book production. Masters should be viciously effective when applied, not haphazard and wishy-washy.
    Tony_Stuart@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    I have never had any problems with ID2's master pages. I am having some of these problems with IDCS master pages. I had created a 2-page master page for a book then duplicated the master page and changed the position of an object. Then applied the new master to to only one of the pages of the spread. This served as a chapter break. But an item on the first master page still appears on the page with the second master, but only when I print. It does not appear on the pages in the file.

    Still wondering exactly what is happening?

    James
    james.day@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    I'm having the same problem as James.day. I had to add pages to a book, and then I reapplied the master pages. The InDesign file reflects the changes, but when I make a postscript file and distill it, the headers and folios appear in the same order as the first version of the doent.

    But if I apply the "none" master page to everything and make a postscript, the PDF DOES reflect the change and there are no headers and folios on any of the pages. But when I reapply the master pages after ripping out everything, the original version of the master pages appears again.

    Does anyone have a fix? I've never had this before and I've had to delay a customer's proof because of this problem.
    Emily_Jacques@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Welcome to the beta-test team.
    Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    LOL! Thanks.

    As to your issue, I've run into the same thing, so I just base everything on "none", but there is an "override master page items" function in the Master Page Options to modify master pages. Does it work for your master page issue? Or have you tried that already to no avail?

    I talked with some of the other people at work, and we've had the same problem with the master pages messing up on certain files. She took an IDCS file created in the Jaguar OS and then opened and modified it in a different Mac OS platform (Panther). The same problem cropped up when I created an IDCS file in Panther and then opened and modified it in Jaguar.

    Or maybe it's a clash of permissions (we're running on a Mac OS network and sometimes have permissions issues).
    Emily_Jacques@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Andy et al.

    Would you believe it, my problems with master pages that I have referred to seem to have fixed themselves.

    A colleague, one of our designers, was asked by our boss to make further changes to the master pages in the pub concerned. Not being too brave with ID2 (she's more of a Quarker) she took a backup version of the file and created new masters. I then copied them to the latest file version and they seem to have decided to work as expected, at least so far. The masters are not very much different from the ones that went crazy, and yet are now working properly. By the way, my colleague did not duplicate the masters before but created each separately from None, so that shoots down my hypothesis about duplication being a cause of master page problems.

    ID2 is getting stranger by the day. In the same pub I need to globally change a color, but the Swatches palette delete option is grayed out. But I can do the substitution in another version of the file. Work that one out.

    In another pub I have a TOC that has just decided to stop working.

    ID2 seems to work one day but not the next, or with one file version but not another, and my reading of posts suggests that IDCS is not doing any better. We users just want some consistency out of Adobe.
    Tony_Stuart@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    I spoke too soon. I saved the file with today's date, made a few text changes and tried to apply some master pages. Gone again. Master elements that are supposed to be on top are again on the bottom. InDesign 2 is certainly picking on me this week.
    Tony_Stuart@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Master-page strangeness?

    Whee!
    Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #14

    Default How to applying two master pages for a single body page

    I am creating a manual wherein, the page size is A4 (portartit), and this page is divided into two parts as upper and lower. For the upper parts, i need to give odd page numbers (such as 1,3,5,7 etc) and for the lower part even page numbers (such as 2,4,6,8,etc).
    I have created a single master page wherin, i mentioned current page number as variable, and by default i am getting only one page number (either odd or even numbers) on individual pages.
    Could anybody help me to get the solution for the problem?

    Waiting for reply...........
    Unregistered Guest

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