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[Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag - Photography

I was shooting my pickup volleyball gang last night ( I sprained my ankle a few weeks ago, it's not healed yet, so... ) I had shot this group (and other sports) several times and with my Maxxum 9 I had a good feeling for the timing. The shutter lag on the 9 is about 50 - 55ms. With the Maxxum 7D, the delay seems a bit longer (not really perceptible in human terms) but the results were well behind the play. It's hard to quantify without instrumentation, but I would guess that it's closer to 100ms for the Maxxum ...

  1. #1

    Default [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag


    I was shooting my pickup volleyball gang last night ( I sprained my
    ankle a few weeks ago, it's not healed yet, so... )

    I had shot this group (and other sports) several times and with my
    Maxxum 9 I had a good feeling for the timing. The shutter lag on the 9
    is about 50 - 55ms.

    With the Maxxum 7D, the delay seems a bit longer (not really perceptible
    in human terms) but the results were well behind the play. It's hard to
    quantify without instrumentation, but I would guess that it's closer to
    100ms for the Maxxum 7D.

    (I was shooting manual focus, manual exp., A/S was off).

    Anyone else?

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:44:53 -0500, Alan Browne
    <ca> wrote:
     

    You can measure shutter lag using a turntable that revolves at a known
    speed, put a white marker on it and fire when the marker is at
    12'o-clock. Take a look at the photo to see how much rotation occurred
    between the button press and the image capture. Grab calculator and do
    some math...

    Another way is to run a digital stopwatch and fire it at a known point
    (say 10 seconds). Because you are predicting the start point, your
    reaction times don't really matter.

    Actually, scrap that and use this website (hmm, it's calibrated to
    capture lag up to 2seconds! - maybe the turntable would be better...)
    http://www.shooting-digital.com/columns/schwartz/shutter_release_test/default.asp

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Owamanga wrote:

     

    Doh! I'll try that at 78 RPM (468/sec) I should get a fairly accurate
    measure. I'll do a few on film with the Max 9 as well. (Hmm, I think
    my turntable only does 33 and 45 ... should still be pretty good at 45).

    Thanks!!

    Cheers,
    Alan


    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:44:53 -0500, Alan Browne
    <ca> wrote:
     

    I took a few shots of my son throwing snowballs last week. To capture
    the snowball going through the air and so it stood out in the shot, I
    had to wait until the snowball had my neighbors red brick as the
    backdrop. I was shooting at iso 1600 and didn't notice any lag. Here
    is a sample of what I mean.

    http://mikmaq.250free.com/snowball.jpg

    Joe
    stator Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Owamanga wrote:
     

    example: http://www.aliasimages.com/images/PICT0513a.jpg

    From the spreadsheet.

    45 RPM
    Phot Angle Time (ms)
    511 53 196
    512 58 215
    513 57.5 213
    514 53 196
    515 60 222
    516 60 222

    Average 211 (ms)... manual focus, manual exposure, shutter
    depressed halfway beofore release.

    This S.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Alan Browne wrote:
     

    www.google.com: "personal equation" measurement

    Did you remove your reflex action time? A better setup might be to rig
    the camera to take a picture when a beam of light is broken: just drop
    something through the beam and some simple arithmetic gives you the
    delay.

    eawckyegcy@yahoo.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    stator wrote:
     

    Thanks. (I love the trail of snow on that!).

    More scientifically, I followed Owamanga's suggestion and shot 6 frames
    of a turntable at 45 RPM. Repeated post text follows:

    example: http://www.aliasimages.com/images/PICT0513a.jpg

    From the spreadsheet.

    45 RPM.
    Phot Angle Time (ms)
    511 53 196
    512 58 215
    513 57.5 213
    514 53 196
    515 60 222
    516 60 222

    Average 211 (ms)... manual focus, manual exposure, shutter
    depressed halfway beofore release.

    This S.

    Cheers,
    Alan
    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    com wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > www.google.com: "personal equation" measurement
    >
    > Did you remove your reflex action time? A better setup might be to rig
    > the camera to take a picture when a beam of light is broken: just drop
    > something through the beam and some simple arithmetic gives you the
    > delay.[/ref]

    I don't have the equipment for that. You'll just have to go by my
    sighted firings of a near depressed shutter (and the low variance).
    Since I'm anticipating the crossing of the tapes, finger depressed
    already through most of the closing range, I doubt the human delay here
    is more than 25ms.

    (In reflex testing, the subject sees a light come on, so he can't
    anticipate. I can, 'cause I can see the tape approaching the reference
    tape).

    Cheers,
    Alan.



    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    On 10 Mar 2005 13:57:20 -0800, "com"
    <com> wrote:
     [/ref]

    Yep.
     

    It's not a simple reflex time (230ms I read somewhere, in a test where
    someone responds to a expected, but unpredictable trigger), Alan was
    able to predict exactly when the shutter press was needed, so any
    human error will be very small. Off the top of my head, I can't think
    how to measure this (Alan will do film tests on other cameras).

    Whatever the time is, it's real life. Alan + Camera = 211ms and that
    s.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
    Owamanga Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    In article <d0qglo$bll$gazeta.pl>,
    ca says... 

    I just found this by goolging:

    From http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/MAX7/D7A12.HTM

    "Average (good) shutter response and cycle times. The word that comes to
    mind when thinking about the Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D's speed is
    "average." - But that's not a bad thing, given the field it's playing
    in. Full-autofocus shutter lag is actually faster than most d-SLRs, at
    about 0.27 second, although its manual focus lag is only slightly better
    than the full-autofocus times."

    You'll probably learn to compensate slightly, but you're right, it kinda
    s.
    Brian Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Owamanga wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > You can measure shutter lag using a turntable that revolves at a known
    > speed, put a white marker on it and fire when the marker is at
    > 12'o-clock. Take a look at the photo to see how much rotation occurred
    > between the button press and the image capture. Grab calculator and do
    > some math...
    >
    > Another way is to run a digital stopwatch and fire it at a known point
    > (say 10 seconds). Because you are predicting the start point, your
    > reaction times don't really matter.
    >
    > Actually, scrap that and use this website (hmm, it's calibrated to
    > capture lag up to 2seconds! - maybe the turntable would be better...)
    > http://www.shooting-digital.com/columns/schwartz/shutter_release_test/default.asp
    >[/ref]
    Is it just me, or does that clock stop briefly as it passes through 0?
    (Netscape 7.2).

    With that one, I'm getting a little over 0.1 sec... but there seems to
    be a delay at 0 when it passes through (may no mean anything if the
    needle 'catches' up at its next 'tick' position.

    Maybe I should repeat the turntable test at 33, give me a cleaner hit at
    the start point. (Of course I've put away the turntable).

    Cheers,
    Alan.

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag


    <com> wrote in message
    news:googlegroups.com... 
    >
    > www.google.com: "personal equation" measurement
    >
    > Did you remove your reflex action time? A better setup might be to rig
    > the camera to take a picture when a beam of light is broken: just drop
    > something through the beam and some simple arithmetic gives you the
    > delay.
    >[/ref]
    Or break the beam with a cardboard tab taped to the outside edge of your
    record. (on the turntable)


    William Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Owamanga wrote:
     

    http://www.aliasimages.com/images/PICT0522.JPG

    About 125 ms.

    I'll repeat the turntable tomorrow at 33 RPM. Maybe get a better 'start
    time'.

    Cheers,
    Alan


    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Alan Browne wrote: 
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> You can measure shutter lag using a turntable that revolves at a known
    >> speed, put a white marker on it and fire when the marker is at
    >> 12'o-clock. Take a look at the photo to see how much rotation occurred
    >> between the button press and the image capture. Grab calculator and do
    >> some math...
    >>
    >> Another way is to run a digital stopwatch and fire it at a known point
    >> (say 10 seconds). Because you are predicting the start point, your
    >> reaction times don't really matter.
    >>
    >> Actually, scrap that and use this website (hmm, it's calibrated to
    >> capture lag up to 2seconds! - maybe the turntable would be better...)
    >> http://www.shooting-digital.com/columns/schwartz/shutter_release_test/default.asp
    >>
    >>[/ref]
    > Is it just me, or does that clock stop briefly as it passes through 0?
    > (Netscape 7.2).
    >
    > With that one, I'm getting a little over 0.1 sec... but there seems to
    > be a delay at 0 when it passes through (may no mean anything if the
    > needle 'catches' up at its next 'tick' position.
    >
    > Maybe I should repeat the turntable test at 33, give me a cleaner hit at
    > the start point. (Of course I've put away the turntable).
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan.
    >[/ref]

    Not just you, the needle seems to be freezing briefly at 0.
    Remainds me when I had to demonstrate to a customer that our controller
    trips the engine within 40 or 50 ms after a specific condition is met.
    Paul Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag


    "Alan Browne" <ca> wrote in message
    news:oT3Yd.6233$videotron.net... 
    >>
    >>
    >> You can measure shutter lag using a turntable that revolves at a known
    >> speed, put a white marker on it and fire when the marker is at
    >> 12'o-clock. Take a look at the photo to see how much rotation occurred
    >> between the button press and the image capture. Grab calculator and do
    >> some math...
    >>
    >> Another way is to run a digital stopwatch and fire it at a known point
    >> (say 10 seconds). Because you are predicting the start point, your
    >> reaction times don't really matter.
    >>
    >> Actually, scrap that and use this website (hmm, it's calibrated to
    >> capture lag up to 2seconds! - maybe the turntable would be better...)
    >> http://www.shooting-digital.com/columns/schwartz/shutter_release_test/default.asp
    >>[/ref]
    > Is it just me, or does that clock stop briefly as it passes through 0?
    > (Netscape 7.2).
    >
    > With that one, I'm getting a little over 0.1 sec... but there seems to be
    > a delay at 0 when it passes through (may no mean anything if the needle
    > 'catches' up at its next 'tick' position.
    >
    > Maybe I should repeat the turntable test at 33, give me a cleaner hit at
    > the start point. (Of course I've put away the turntable).
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan.
    >[/ref]
    Yes. I have trouble stopping the arrow within .1 seconds of straight
    up....Also, I perceive a small delay in my computer's reaction time. (the
    time between when I click the mouse pointer, and when the arrow stops.)
    Of course, with any camera, regardless of how fast it is, one's own
    reaction time is going to be a factor, so perhaps it doesn't matter, and
    your measurement should include that time anyway.......


    William Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Alan Browne <ca> wrote:
     

    Try using the 1 at the bottom as the firing point rather than the 0 at the
    top. It doesn't stop there.

    With my D70 I was consistently hitting what looks like the first "notch"
    after the start point, 0.05 I guess. But I'm not sure how valid the
    test is, given the human element; I also found that I had to consciously
    try *not* to predict the firing moment well enough to lead it and hit the
    needle right on the 1, which is more a test of my compensation for shutter
    lag than of shutter lag itself.

    I guess the real test would be having some way to auto-trigger the shutter
    at the "correct" moment.

    --
    Jeremy | com
    Jeremy Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    Jeremy Nixon wrote: 
    >
    >
    > Try using the 1 at the bottom as the firing point rather than the 0 at the
    > top. It doesn't stop there.
    >
    > With my D70 I was consistently hitting what looks like the first "notch"
    > after the start point, 0.05 I guess. But I'm not sure how valid the
    > test is, given the human element; I also found that I had to consciously
    > try *not* to predict the firing moment well enough to lead it and hit the
    > needle right on the 1, which is more a test of my compensation for shutter
    > lag than of shutter lag itself.
    >
    > I guess the real test would be having some way to auto-trigger the shutter
    > at the "correct" moment.
    >[/ref]

    The simplest way to do test would be to have a mechanical release that
    triggers at the same time the camera shutter button and a very precise
    timer. Then all you need is checking the picture for the time it captured.
    Paul Guest

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    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

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  19. #19

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag


    "Alan Browne" <ca> wrote in message
    news:d0qg9b$as6$gazeta.pl... 
    >
    > Thanks. (I love the trail of snow on that!).
    >
    > More scientifically, I followed Owamanga's suggestion and shot 6 frames
    > of a turntable at 45 RPM. Repeated post text follows:
    >
    > example: http://www.aliasimages.com/images/PICT0513a.jpg
    >
    > From the spreadsheet.
    >
    > 45 RPM.
    > Phot Angle Time (ms)
    > 511 53 196
    > 512 58 215
    > 513 57.5 213
    > 514 53 196
    > 515 60 222
    > 516 60 222
    >
    > Average 211 (ms)... manual focus, manual exposure, shutter
    > depressed halfway beofore release.
    >
    > This S.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan
    > --
    > -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    > -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    > -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    > -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.[/ref]

    This site gives lag times in the camera reviews.
    May be of interest to you if you haven't already seen it:
    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/MAX7/D7A7.HTM


    Patco Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Maxxum 7D] -shutter lag

    William Graham wrote:
     

    Or if you have some electronic kit measure the time taken from triggering
    the camera with electronic cable release until when the short apears on the
    hot shoe.

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk
    Peter Guest

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