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mot de passe root - FreeBSD

Dimitri GALAITSIS skrev:  Ni skåningar ska då pressa er inöver allt....

  1. #1

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Dimitri GALAITSIS skrev: 

    Ni skåningar ska då pressa er inöver allt.
    B Guest

  2. #2

    Default mot de passe root

    A la fin de l'intallation de BSB 5.3 lors que le systéme me demande de
    définir un mot de passe root le systeme refuse


    Dimitri Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Le 23/03/2005 à 22:13:17+0100, Dimitri GALAITSIS a écrit 

    I think this is a english mailing list. Please use
    org
    for french mailing list.

    *************************

    C'est à dire ? Vous dites qu'il ne veut pas de votre mot de passe. Mais
    vous étès bien dans le menu d'install ?

    De toute façon par défaut l'installateur ne met pas de mot de passe donc
    suffit de rebooter et on se retrouve avce un compte root sans mot de passe.
    On se logge et ensuite on fait un passwd.

    Cordialement

    --
    Albert SHIH
    Universite de Paris 7 (Denis DIDEROT)
    U.F.R. de Mathematiques.
    Heure local/Local time:
    Wed Mar 23 22:38:25 CET 2005
    Albert Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    I've noticed that nobody responds negatively to questions by Russian
    speakers, but that French speakers are told not to ask questions here.
    I don't believe this is a fair response.

    J'ai bien noté que personne ne répond d'une façon négative lorsqu'il y
    a une question d'un russophone, mais que l'on dit aux francophone
    qu'ils ne doivent pas démander ici. Je ne crois pas que ce réponse est
    juste.

    Si le système refuse un mot de passe, il est possible que vous n'avez
    pas choisi l'option crypto (ou même que votre système ne la supporte
    pas, comme des problèmes d'exportation existent avec les logiciels
    d'origine Etats-Unisienne utilisés outre-mer) pendant l'installation;
    si c'est le cas, vous ne pouvez pas utiliser un mot de passe trop
    long. Sinon, il nous aiderait si vous nous disiez le message d'erreur
    spécifique que le système vous présente. En tout cas, je vous
    conseille d'essayer un mot de passe simple et court pendant
    l'installation, et puis d'essayer de le changer après. Si vous voulez,
    vous pouvez me contacter directement, et j'essayerai de vous aider.

    Bonne chance.
    Josh Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 08:54 +0100, Josh Ockert wrote: 

    Perhaps, though I'm not sure myself what is said in Russian to them
    whereas I can read the French. But the reply in, I think, Swedish to
    this question in French was a very good indication of what an impossible
    babel this or any other list would be if a single language were not
    declared and respected.

    Peter.



    Peter Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:51:51 +0000, Peter Risdon
    <com> wrote: 
    >
    > Perhaps, though I'm not sure myself what is said in Russian to them
    > whereas I can read the French. But the reply in, I think, Swedish to
    > this question in French was a very good indication of what an impossible
    > babel this or any other list would be if a single language were not
    > declared and respected.
    >
    > Peter.
    >
    >[/ref]

    You could equally argue that this place is already a babel; mentally
    disregarding messages in foreign languages should be just as easy as
    ignoring the questions about particular hardware you know nothing
    about. We're all Internet literate here (at any rate, most of us ;) ),
    which suggests that we've the ability to pick out the important and/or
    applicable bits from masses of information.
    Josh Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 10:05 +0100, Josh Ockert wrote: 
    > >
    > > Perhaps, though I'm not sure myself what is said in Russian to them
    > > whereas I can read the French. But the reply in, I think, Swedish to
    > > this question in French was a very good indication of what an impossible
    > > babel this or any other list would be if a single language were not
    > > declared and respected.
    > >
    > > Peter.
    > >
    > >[/ref]
    >
    > You could equally argue that this place is already a babel; mentally
    > disregarding messages in foreign languages should be just as easy as
    > ignoring the questions about particular hardware you know nothing
    > about. We're all Internet literate here (at any rate, most of us ;) ),
    > which suggests that we've the ability to pick out the important and/or
    > applicable bits from masses of information.[/ref]

    No, I'm sorry but that seems to me to be a non sequitur. We can
    understand questions we are not competent to answer if they are in
    English, learn from the replies and if we hit the same issues ourselves
    we can google and get a reply we can understand. You are suggesting this
    incredibly useful situation be broken, if I understand you right. And
    this applies to French and Russian speakers equally: this is an English
    list, there are also French and Russian lists. I'd argue just as
    strongly that postings to the French list should be in French.

    Peter.

    Peter Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Peter Risdon wrote:
     
    >
    >Perhaps, though I'm not sure myself what is said in Russian to them
    >whereas I can read the French. But the reply in, I think, Swedish to
    >this question in French was a very good indication of what an impossible
    >babel this or any other list would be if a single language were not
    >declared and respected.
    >
    >Peter.
    >
    >
    >[/ref]

    When did this become an English-only list?

    For years the policy of this list was that you were free to post in any
    language you were comfortable with, but with the caveat that you had
    the best chance of getting help if you posted in English. Postings in
    other languages were often answered in that language, with an added
    pointer to a local support list in that language.

    So again, I ask: has that policy changed, or are the xenophobes just
    trying to impose their biases on the rest of us?

    - Bob

    Bob Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Peter Risdon wrote:
     
    >>You could equally argue that this place is already a babel; mentally
    >>disregarding messages in foreign languages should be just as easy as
    >>ignoring the questions about particular hardware you know nothing
    >>about. We're all Internet literate here (at any rate, most of us ;) ),
    >>which suggests that we've the ability to pick out the important and/or
    >>applicable bits from masses of information.
    >>
    >>[/ref]
    >
    >No, I'm sorry but that seems to me to be a non sequitur. We can
    >understand questions we are not competent to answer if they are in
    >English, learn from the replies and if we hit the same issues ourselves
    >we can google and get a reply we can understand. You are suggesting this
    >incredibly useful situation be broken, if I understand you right. And
    >this applies to French and Russian speakers equally: this is an English
    >list, there are also French and Russian lists. I'd argue just as
    >strongly that postings to the French list should be in French.
    >
    >Peter.
    >
    >[/ref]
    This is the default world-wide FreeBSD support list. Postings in any
    language
    have always been welcome (at least since I subscribed in 1997). Who put
    you
    in charge of deciding otherwise?

    - Bob

    Bob Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: mot de passe root


    On Mar 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Bob Johnson wrote:
     
    >>
    >> No, I'm sorry but that seems to me to be a non sequitur. We can
    >> understand questions we are not competent to answer if they are in
    >> English, learn from the replies and if we hit the same issues
    >> ourselves
    >> we can google and get a reply we can understand. You are suggesting
    >> this
    >> incredibly useful situation be broken, if I understand you right. And
    >> this applies to French and Russian speakers equally: this is an
    >> English
    >> list, there are also French and Russian lists. I'd argue just as
    >> strongly that postings to the French list should be in French.
    >>
    >> Peter.
    >>[/ref]
    > This is the default world-wide FreeBSD support list. Postings in any
    > language
    > have always been welcome (at least since I subscribed in 1997). Who
    > put you
    > in charge of deciding otherwise?[/ref]

    How about we all agree to only ask questions in C? Or will people
    start arguing in C++ or Python after that? :-)

    Bart Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 12:49 -0500, Bob Johnson wrote:
     
    >
    > There is no call to splinter into many languages.[/ref]

    *sigh*

    The starting point for this was a post which seemed to me to be doing
    just that. If you interpret that posting differently, and you haven't
    said whether you do, then that's our point of difference. Perhaps I
    misread the OP, in which case there's nothing to discuss and
    everything's fine and dandy.

     

    Kind of... it's an English language list to which posts are sometimes
    made in other languages. When that happens, generally one of the
    poster's fellow nationals gently reminds them that it's an English
    language list, and sometimes translates their questions so others can
    try to help. Sometimes not. It's informal, as we both know. But to call
    it multilingual is at best an exaggeration.
     

    I have no idea why you're trying to misrepresent what I was saying. It's
    starting to feel mildly bizarre.

    Peter.

    Peter Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: mot de passe root


    On Mar 24, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Peter Risdon wrote:
     

    You say this as if it is the first time, being a system admin, you have
    had this feeling...

    Bart Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 14:45 -0500, Bart Silverstrim wrote: 
    >
    > You say this as if it is the first time, being a system admin, you have
    > had this feeling...
    >
    >[/ref]

    You're right, it's not.

    Peter.

    Peter Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Peter Risdon wrote: 
     
    >
    >
    > Kind of... it's an English language list to which posts are sometimes
    > made in other languages. When that happens, generally one of the
    > poster's fellow nationals gently reminds them that it's an English
    > language list, and sometimes translates their questions so others can
    > try to help. Sometimes not. It's informal, as we both know. But to call
    > it multilingual is at best an exaggeration.
    >[/ref]

    This is not historically accurate, at least not in my experience.
    The attempt to make this an English-only list is a recent
    phenomenon.

    Posts in other languages were historically entirely welcome,
    and the only reason people were sent to language-specific
    lists was because they were likely to get better results there,
    not because there was a rule requiring that they use English here.

    As long as the domain name (freebsd.org) is not country-specific,
    we should expect visits from new users who don't speak English
    well or at all, and plan accordingly. Prohibiting them from
    posting here is not appropriate, unless the name of the list
    is changed to something like us.

    In a previous message to me you stated: 

    Both of those statements are true. Neither leads to the conclusion
    that other languages are banned from this list. The fact that
    English is the default language for this list does not imply that
    other languages are banned.
     

    This is hogwash. Postings in other languages are still a useful
    archive. I don't claim to be multilingual, and I have certainly
    never made an effort to learn French, yet I can usually read
    enough of a French posting to understand the problem and proposed
    solution.

    Historically, the number of non-English postings has been so low
    as to be a non-issue. Your conjecture about what might happen
    was long ago demonstrated to be false.

    The list is here to help people. Creating an arbitrary
    English-only rule helps no one, and serves no useful purpose.
    As much as I would like to ban the French to their own list,
    I can't think of any legitimate reason to do so other than
    personal prejudice.

    - Bob

    Bob Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 16:02 -0500, Bob Johnson wrote:
     


    Well, it's good to see you strike a light-hearted note. There are an
    impressive number of straw men in your post but the earlier
    correspondence speaks for itself, and makes it perfectly clear what I
    was arguing, so perhaps that's a good point at which to end the thread.

    Peter.

    Peter Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 16:42 -0500, Bob Johnson wrote: 
     [/ref]
    It's 
    > I am not trying to misrepresent anything, and I don't believe that I[/ref]
    am. [/ref]
    impossible [/ref]

    Reading this again, it seems completely reasonable and obvious. I'm very
    happy to stand by it.
     
    >
    > If you were not saying that -questions should be an English-only list,[/ref]
    then 

    The single language I referred to is of course English. But, my obtuse
    friend, that's not the point at issue. It's the words *should be* and
    *English-only* in your question. These are not my words but that doesn't
    stop you trying to put them into my mouth. The simple fact is that
    -questions _is_ an English language, as opposed to an English-only, list
    (see below). You haven't noticed that? Hmmm...

    Try reading the etiquette guide I quoted, from the FreeBSD website
    (-questions is English in theory), and count the percentage of postings
    in English, which is well above 99% (and English in practice). This is
    pretty obvious stuff, Bob.

    But people sometimes post in other languages and then other people try
    to help them, including me if I feel competent. And that's great.

     

    By reading it in a straightforward way and not trying to distort it for
    your own, unfathomable, purposes.
     

    At last! That's right. This has absolutely nothing to do with
    prohibition. Prohibition is imposed , respect is self-imposed. Again,
    pretty obvious stuff.

    People _are_ asked, politely, ("declaring") by FreeBSD.org, on their
    website, in the bit about mailing lists, to use an appropriate language
    for lists and it's entirely clear they mean English unless otherwise
    stated.

    I've quoted this to you since and I echoed it when someone seemed to be
    calling for a _CHANGE_ in policy. I've already made that perfectly clear
    [1]. I think the guidance on the website should be borne in mind by list
    subscribers ("respecting").

    That's why I say you are trying to misrepresent what I said. A list
    moderator might prohibit non-English posts and that would create an
    *English-only* list. I am absolutely not calling for that.

    By contrast, individual posters might respect guidelines and in this
    context that would make for an *English language* list. Nothing
    authoritarian, just a guideline that people respect of their own
    volition. There's nothing new about this idea - respecting guidelines is
    a normal part of netiquette.

    Now, remember that "declare" and "respect" were the words I used in my
    initial posting, and you have demonstrated this by quoting them for me,
    above. They have been there all along, clearly, and have nothing
    whatsoever to do with the sort of authoritarianism you seem determined
    to try to contrive from my words.

    To repeat myself one last time, I was DISAGREEING with SOMEBODY ELSE who
    seemed to be CALLING FOR A CHANGE. You are stating, falsely, that I
    called for a change, then disagreeing with the change you are falsely
    claiming I advocate. How pointless can you get?

    This is already repetitious and must be deeply tedious to other
    subscribers by now. I attempted, in my last post, to agree to disagree
    in a friendly way with you. After all, we've both said our piece and
    they are in the archives if anyone ever gives a damn. You have chosen to
    ignore that amicable overture.

    So I am going to spare subscribers the tedium of any further posts to
    this thread.

    Peter.

    [1] From an earlier post:

    On Thu, 2005-03-24 at 12:49 -0500, Bob Johnson wrote:
     
    >
    > There is no call to splinter into many languages.[/ref]

    *sigh*

    The starting point for this was a post which seemed to me to be doing
    just that. If you interpret that posting differently, and you haven't
    said whether you do, then that's our point of difference. Perhaps I
    misread the OP, in which case there's nothing to discuss and
    everything's fine and dandy.







    Peter Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Good God this is all non-sensical. Peter, there is absolutely nothing
    to give the impression that questions is meant to be entirely,
    exclusively, or even primarily English-language list. Consider the
    following:

    1) FreeBSD is a US project, and the US has no official
    language, so there is no implied language for the project. In
    addition, many people in the US speak languages (natively) other than
    English. I should know. I'm from Northern Michigan and if you want to
    try explaining to a big burly fur-trader descendant named Reuben who
    lives on Bois Blanc island that he is not supposed to speak French,
    you're likely to get the crap beaten out of you. In short, even if you
    look at freebsd.org as being country-specific (I disagree with this in
    the first place, but anyway) that still doesn't mean English should
    necessarily dominate on its lists.

    2) There are NO official french-language lists. There is a
    French-language list, but it is not official. I am subscribed to it,
    and as such I can assure you that, per day, more francophones read the
    official list than they do the unofficial french-language list. This
    makes it quite unreasonable to expect francophones to use the
    unofficial list, knowing they won't receive support.

    If you would like to continue with this connerie, you may do so; but
    if you do, don't expect thereafter that your messages will continue to
    show up in my inbox. By the way, I assume you are indeed a native
    anglophone, so even according to the guidelines there is no excuse for
    your spelling of xenophobic with a z.
    Josh Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Josh,

    On the grounds that this a new front, I'll post on this thread one last
    time, but I have been suggesting for several posts now that we've all
    expressed our views and other people can make up their minds without
    constant repetition from us.

    On Fri, 2005-03-25 at 13:18 +0100, Josh Ockert wrote: 

    If you really want to pick up my spelling mistake, which I happily
    acknowledge I made, it's ironic to see you make one yourself (nonsense
    is not hyphenated). But English is perhaps not your langue de naissance?
    If not, I compliment you on your facility with it. J'essaye de utiliser
    la francaise mais je ne suis pas du tout pres de votre niveau en
    anglais.
     

    True enough for the first two (entirely, exclusively), but people _are_
    encouraged to use English and I quoted from the FreeBSD website to
    demonstrate that. I don't know why you haven't accepted this, even if
    you disagree with it, or explained why you do not.

    I have never responded to anyone who posted in a language other than
    English that they should not have done so - and lots of other people
    have. I think the list should be, and generally is, welcoming for
    everyone, regardless of whether or not they have sufficient competence
    in English to use it to ask a question.

    But I do disagree with you about the idea that the list should be
    officially linguistically agnostic. I think people should be encouraged
    to use one language if possible, and that for a variety of reasons
    English is the obvious choice. In this, I seem to be closer to the
    guidelines expressed on the FreeBSD website than you are. But that
    doesn't mean I'm right, or that a majority would agree. However, it is a
    valid, genuine opinion and it's a shame you choose to respond to it with
    insults, even in French, and mail filtering.

    I guess I should have realised that there's a fairly bitter
    philosophical divide underlying this sort of debate. It's similar to
    multiculturalism vs. integration, or the occasional battles within the
    European Union over language. FWIW, I also think the EU should adopt one
    language primarily, but that for historical reasons this should be
    French.

    And that really is it. I subscribed to this list for technical
    questions, not for this sort of circular and needlessly personal sort of
    debate.


    Peter.
     

    Peter Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    This discussion seems very strange, since I don't really understand how
    anyone could effectively use FreeBSD (or any flavor of UNIX) without
    understanding English in the first place. I've never heard of any
    localized versions of UNIX (?).

    More generally, it's virtually impossible to work in the IT field
    anywhere today without having some reasonable command of English,
    although I suppose there are a few desert islands somewhere where it
    isn't absolutely necessary.

    --
    Anthony


    Anthony Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: mot de passe root

    Anthony Atkielski <fr> writes:
     

    There's an amazing amount of material that has been localized into quite
    a number of languages. I believe Gnome and KDE are pretty much fully
    localized to most languages you can think of these days.

    I tend to run a Norwegian (Nynorsk or Bokmål, whatever I fancy that day)
    KDE desktop myself. An ordinary user would get along fine on a typical
    desktop system in their local language, IME. On the other hand your
    friendly sysadmin would likely be at a great disadvantage with little or
    no English.

    --
    Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
    http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ http://www.datadok.no/ http://www.nuug.no/
    "First, we kill all the spammers" The Usenet Bard, "Twice-forwarded tales"

    Peter Guest

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