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MT-NW not suppressing duplicates - Mac Networking

It's happening again: MT-NW 3.4 is showing me the same messages in misc.int-property and gnu.misc.discuss, even though I have the option enabled to "Don't show articles that have been read in another group". Whenever this fails, it always seems to be these two groups. Here's the header of the most recent culprit message. X-Abuse-Report: com Message-ID: <teranews.com> Path: internal1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.g iganews.com!border1.nnt p.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!hydra.nntpser ver.com!nntpserver.com! news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:24:09 GMT Lines: 92 From: A Waterfall That Barks <net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: misc.int-property,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,m isc.legal.comp uting,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html Subject: Re: The patent process [Was Re: Sharing ...

  1. #1

    Default MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    It's happening again: MT-NW 3.4 is showing me the same messages in
    misc.int-property and gnu.misc.discuss, even though I have the option
    enabled to "Don't show articles that have been read in another group".
    Whenever this fails, it always seems to be these two groups. Here's the
    header of the most recent culprit message.

    X-Abuse-Report: com
    Message-ID: <teranews.com>
    Path:
    internal1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.g iganews.com!border1.nnt
    p.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!hydra.nntpser ver.com!nntpserver.com!
    news.teranews.com!not-for-mail
    Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 00:24:09 GMT
    Lines: 92
    From: A Waterfall That Barks <net>
    User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207)
    X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Newsgroups:
    misc.int-property,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,m isc.legal.comp
    uting,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    Subject: Re: The patent process [Was Re: Sharing the Family PC is
    Patent-Pending]
    References: <google.com>
    <ash.giganews.com>
    <c7go5b$18r$wetton.example.org>
    <ash.giganews.com>
    <c7midj$2o6$unity.ncsu.edu>
    <ash.giganews.com>
    <133.1.4>
    <stanford.edu>
    <teranews.com>
    <c7p5op$ov7$rahul.net>
    In-Reply-To: <c7p5op$ov7$rahul.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; cht=windows-1252; format=flowed
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Xref: number1.nntp.ash.giganews.com misc.int-property:49616
    comp.os.linux.advocacy:1061176 gnu.misc.discuss:71142
    misc.legal.computing:25387 comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:353327

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    I've been seeing this, too, in other groups than the ones that you
    mention.

    --
    Julian Vrieslander
    Julian Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article
    <u.washington.edu>,
    Julian Vrieslander <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > I've been seeing this, too, in other groups than the ones that you
    > mention.[/ref]

    Maybe those messages have not been cross posted correctly and MT-NW
    reads them as separate postings (even though they have the same subject).

    --
    Rodger
    Rodger Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <k_coc.1062$news.prodigy.com>,
    Rodger <invalid> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > I've been seeing this, too, in other groups than the ones that you
    > > mention.[/ref]
    >
    > Maybe those messages have not been cross posted correctly and MT-NW
    > reads them as separate postings (even though they have the same subject).[/ref]

    How can I tell? The Xref header is in terms of article numbers, but
    AFAICT there's no way to see the article numbers in MT-NW. This isn't
    shown when you use "Show Details".

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    Here is an xref header from a crossposted message on my system:

    Xref: east.cox.net az.general:246832 az.politics:164251

    The article numbers are right there.

    --
    Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
    Michelle Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    The next time you see one of those articles, can you check the full
    headers of the offending article as it appears in _both_ groups, and
    make note of both the Message-ID and Xref you see in each copy?
     

    These are the only header lines that will matter for crosspost
    management, so zooming in on their differences (or sameness) will be the
    most direct route to figuring out what the heck is going on.

    --
    Style is an alive ability mouse.
    iMeowbot@mac.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Maybe those messages have not been cross posted correctly and MT-NW
    > > reads them as separate postings (even though they have the same subject).[/ref]
    >
    > How can I tell? The Xref header is in terms of article numbers, but
    > AFAICT there's no way to see the article numbers in MT-NW. This isn't
    > shown when you use "Show Details".[/ref]

    Funny, your article that I'm responding to includes the header: 

    It's also: 

    which would also suffice in comparing to see if the "same" article in
    two newsgroups is showing up twice (same Message-ID) or was posted twice
    (different Message-IDs).

    --
    AF
    Alice Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <west.cox.net>,
    Michelle Steiner <org> wrote:
     
    >
    > Here is an xref header from a crossposted message on my system:
    >
    > Xref: east.cox.net az.general:246832 az.politics:164251
    >
    > The article numbers are right there.[/ref]

    I was talking about the way newsreaders like trn display "Article
    #nnnnn" at the top of each message when you display it.

    But now I realize that all I have to do is look at the field in the Xref
    header for the current group to find out what the article's number is in
    this group.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <supernews.com>,
    com wrote:
     
    >
    > The next time you see one of those articles, can you check the full
    > headers of the offending article as it appears in _both_ groups, and
    > make note of both the Message-ID and Xref you see in each copy?[/ref]

    I didn't check it this most recent time, but when I reported this same
    problem about a month ago I did. The entire header was totally
    identical for both instances.

    Maybe I should turn on "Mark as read when read on another server". Even
    though I don't read the same groups on multiple servers, this should
    cause it to maintain the Message-ID database, which could be a more
    reliable way to recognize cross-posts than Xref.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    Yes, for some reason, it doesn't work unless that is turned on.

    --
    Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
    Michelle Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    Yeah, that would do a lot better, given the cheesy things being done on
    large commercial news servers these days to spread out the load.
    Inconsistent Xrefs among different back ends wouldn't be too surprising.

    --
    Style is an alive ability mouse.
    iMeowbot@mac.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <west.cox.net>,
    Michelle Steiner <org> wrote:
     
    >
    > Yes, for some reason, it doesn't work unless that is turned on.[/ref]

    Then why are there two separate options, one for marking read from
    another group, and another for marking read from another server?

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <ash.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     
    >
    > Then why are there two separate options, one for marking read from
    > another group, and another for marking read from another server?[/ref]

    I don't know. One is marked "Don't show articles that have been read in
    another group," but the other is "Mark articles that have been read on
    another server."

    I've found that the first doesn't work unless the second is checked.

    -- Michelle

    --
    Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
    Michelle Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <supernews.com>,
    com wrote:
     
    >
    > Yeah, that would do a lot better, given the cheesy things being done on
    > large commercial news servers these days to spread out the load.
    > Inconsistent Xrefs among different back ends wouldn't be too surprising.[/ref]

    It just happened again, and I checked the headers. The Xrefs are
    consistent -- the entire header is identical in both groups. Here's the
    full header. I saw the message in misc.legal.computing and
    gnu.misc.discuss.

    Path:
    internal1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!wn12feed!wo
    rldnet.att.net!216.196.106.140!border1.nntp.sjc.gi ganews.com!nntp.giganew
    s.com!sjc1.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com! feedwest.aleron.net!ale
    ron.net!news.mainstreet.net!wasp.rahul.net!blue.ra hul.net!not-for-mail
    From: usenet.us.com (Rahul Dhesi)
    Newsgroups:
    comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,misc.legal .computing,misc.int-pro
    perty
    Subject: Re: Gates Patents Flipping a Light Switch
    Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:31:00 +0000 (UTC)
    Organization: a2i network
    Lines: 10
    Distribution: All
    Message-ID: <c83dqk$h2i$rahul.net>
    References: <google.com>
    <40a37b18$0$25039$optusnet.com.au>
    <com>
    <rOdGr40LMPU3-pn2-hLqLMCtjydQylocalhost> <c82gs7$tsi$std.com>
    <dca.giganews.com>
    <stanford.edu>
    <dca.giganews.com>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.rahul.net
    X-Trace: blue.rahul.net 1084570260 17490 66.237.72.25 (14 May 2004
    21:31:00 GMT)
    X-Complaints-To: net
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:31:00 +0000 (UTC)
    User-Agent: nn/6.6.4
    X-Comment: Encoded From: line allows replies that preserve original
    subject
    Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:1063285
    gnu.misc.discuss:71282 misc.legal.computing:25478 misc.int-property:49720

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <dca.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     

    The only thing I can think of is that the newsreader marked the message
    in one newsgroup as read before receiving it in the other newsgroup.

    -- Michelle

    --
    Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry.
    Michelle Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <dca.giganews.com>,
    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     
    [...] 

    okay, then that leaves one more thing to check. Using telnet, you could
    try:

    group gnu.misc.discuss
    xover 71282
    group misc.legal.computing
    xover 25478


    If the output of those two xover commands differs in any way, the server
    is faulty. If they are identical, then there is a bug in MTNW.

    --
    Style is an alive ability mouse.
    iMeowbot@mac.com Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <supernews.com>,
    com wrote:
     
    > [...] 
    >
    > okay, then that leaves one more thing to check. Using telnet, you could
    > try:
    >
    > group gnu.misc.discuss
    > xover 71282
    > group misc.legal.computing
    > xover 25478
    >
    >
    > If the output of those two xover commands differs in any way, the server
    > is faulty. If they are identical, then there is a bug in MTNW.[/ref]

    They're identical.

    GROUP gnu.misc.discuss
    211 4805 66481 71285 gnu.misc.discuss
    XOVER 71282
    224 xover information follows
    71282 Re: Gates Patents Flipping a Light Switch
    usenet.us.com (Rahul Dhesi) Fri, 14 May 2004
    21:31:00 +0000 (UTC) <c83dqk$h2i$rahul.net>
    <google.com>
    <40a37b18$0$25039$optusnet.com.au>
    <com>
    <rOdGr40LMPU3-pn2-hLqLMCtjydQylocalhost> <c82gs7$tsi$std.com>
    <dca.giganews.com>
    <stanford.edu>
    <dca.giganews.com> 1831 10 Xref:
    number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:1063285
    gnu.misc.discuss:71282 misc.legal.computing:25478 misc.int-property:49720
    ..
    GROUP misc.int-property
    211 6650 43074 49723 misc.int-property
    XOVER 49720
    224 xover information follows
    49720 Re: Gates Patents Flipping a Light Switch
    usenet.us.com (Rahul Dhesi) Fri, 14 May 2004
    21:31:00 +0000 (UTC) <c83dqk$h2i$rahul.net>
    <google.com>
    <40a37b18$0$25039$optusnet.com.au>
    <com>
    <rOdGr40LMPU3-pn2-hLqLMCtjydQylocalhost> <c82gs7$tsi$std.com>
    <dca.giganews.com>
    <stanford.edu>
    <dca.giganews.com> 1831 10 Xref:
    number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:1063285
    gnu.misc.discuss:71282 misc.legal.computing:25478 misc.int-property:49720
    ..

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article <west.cox.net>,
    Michelle Steiner <org> wrote:
     
    >
    > Yes, for some reason, it doesn't work unless that is turned on.[/ref]

    That's BS.

    I have * Don't show articles read in another group and I do not have *
    Marked as read on another server checked marked.

    Watching the group list I can see the message count go down for cross
    posted articles as I read them in the first group encountered. I do not
    see the same cross posted articles again.

    --
    Telamon
    Ventura, California
    Telamon Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: MT-NW not suppressing duplicates

    In article
    <sf.sbcglobal.net>,
    Telamon <net.is.invalid> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Yes, for some reason, it doesn't work unless that is turned on.[/ref]
    >
    > That's BS.
    >
    > I have * Don't show articles read in another group and I do not have *
    > Marked as read on another server checked marked.
    >
    > Watching the group list I can see the message count go down for cross
    > posted articles as I read them in the first group encountered. I do not
    > see the same cross posted articles again.[/ref]

    Me too, in general. It only seems to be some messages cross-posted
    between misc.int-property and gnu.misc.discuss that give me problems.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

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