negative nelly?

[Verbunsk]

Ben Forta has been publicly stating for years now that CFML skills alone are
not enough for ColdFusion developers who want to further their careers or
their applications. (excerpt from an observation made during an interview
with Jeremy Allaire: [url]http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/101357_3.htm[/url])

Jeremy Allaire also leans in this general direction too.

Here's my issue - the way things seem to be panning out, it's getting harder
and harder to sell cf to clients and organisations. Do we really need to be
negating one of cf's last undisputable strengths. What I mean is, it is
likely that many of those who were adopting coldfusion were doing so due to
be sold on the idea of simplicity and to avoid the complexity of Java and
..NET, yeah? So if they know upfront that this is a learning curve they will
likley need to attack anyway, why not just go straight to building the more
popular .NET, PHP or (less popular) JSP?

I am not coming at this from a "this platform is better than that platform"
angle. More a "recruiting much needed cf developers" angle.

[PaulH]

on the off-chance there is someone who doesn't already know, this thread was started by our resident troll, andy grant. it would probably be a good idea if we all ignored his postings from now on.

[Verbunsk]

As a footnote to that last post - I guess in some ways it is in keeping with
observations about Macromedia's decision to promote cf as more of a
compliment to .NET and J2EE than a stand alone product. (as stated on their
website)

So I guess the broader issue is that if we acknowledge that cf cannot
compete well directly against stronger technologies, does that neccassarilly
mean that less coders are likley to be drawn to it. (given that these
technologies have their cf like counterparts built in, as in JSP and
ASP.NET)

What exactly are we pinning the future of coldfusion on here? To me, it has
to be the "ease of use" angle that has to be exploited. We can't go with
ubiquity. We can't go with "most powerful" (as J2EE and .NET are clearly
much broader and more encompassing than CF iwas intended to be,) We
certainly ca't go with community backing as Cf is one of the smaller
communities. We can't really keep playing the "productivity" angle for too
much longer as PHP's and Python's are also powerful script based technlogies
too. So it has to be the "ease of use" card we play, yeah?

With that in mind, do we really need the Ben Forta's of the cf world to be
publicly pushing that CF is not enough on it's own?

Come on guys, lets keep this coldfusion thing going - it does not have to be
the end of the road, yeah?



"Verbunsk" <verbunsk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9dc4n$p8k$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Ben Forta has been publicly stating for years now that CFML skills alone
> are not enough for ColdFusion developers who want to further their careers
> or their applications. (excerpt from an observation made during an
> interview with Jeremy Allaire:
> [url]http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/101357_3.htm[/url])
>
> Jeremy Allaire also leans in this general direction too.
>
> Here's my issue - the way things seem to be panning out, it's getting
> harder and harder to sell cf to clients and organisations. Do we really
> need to be negating one of cf's last undisputable strengths. What I mean
> is, it is likely that many of those who were adopting coldfusion were
> doing so due to be sold on the idea of simplicity and to avoid the
> complexity of Java and .NET, yeah? So if they know upfront that this is a
> learning curve they will likley need to attack anyway, why not just go
> straight to building the more popular .NET, PHP or (less popular) JSP?
>
> I am not coming at this from a "this platform is better than that
> platform" angle. More a "recruiting much needed cf developers" angle.
>
>

[mpwoodward *TMM*]

On 2005-06-23 00:11:24 -0500, "Verbunsk" <verbunsk@hotmail.com> said:

> As a footnote to that last post - I guess in some ways it is in keeping
> with observations about Macromedia's decision to promote cf as more of
> a compliment to .NET and J2EE than a stand alone product. (as stated on
> their website)

Please quit making this misstatement of the facts unless you're going
to provide the ORIGINAL LINK so people can see for themselves what
you're referring to. This is a complete misrepresentation of that
information, you know it, I've called you out on this before, yet here
you are trying to slip this into the discussion yet again. Get a
freakin' hobby already Andy. I can't believe you don't have anything
better to do with your time.

Matt
--
Matt Woodward
[email]mpwoodward@gmail.com[/email]
Team Macromedia - ColdFusion