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New Internet Forum for Unix Support - Linux / Unix Administration

the site just started, visit and post your issues www.unixtalk.info...

  1. #1

    Default New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    the site just started, visit and post your issues

    www.unixtalk.info

    admin@unixtalk.info Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    On 11 Apr 2006 16:29:17 -0700, info <info> wrote: 

    Can you give me a compelling reason why I'd post on a website that may
    go *whiff* at any moment, when I could post here and know I can always
    find it?

    Dave Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    In comp.unix.admin Dave Hinz <net>: [/ref]
     

    Seems easy enough:

    The OP:
    - Uses G/2 from doze
    - Has probably never heard about usenet
    - Doesn't care about it anyway
    - Is IT-professional

    --
    Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
    mail: echo qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
    #bofh excuse 300: Digital Manipulator exceeding velocity
    parameters
    Michael Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    that is true, we are it professionals, and we do deal with unix issues
    every day.
    we are unix admin support, team that is trying to provide a free site
    for people to get answers to there issues, and yes i do know about
    other news groups and forums.
    i'm not trying to get you to pay for any of the service...it's free and
    you'll get an answer from someone who deals with unix problems every
    day,


    Michael Heiming wrote: [/ref]

    >
    > Seems easy enough:
    >
    > The OP:
    > - Uses G/2 from doze
    > - Has probably never heard about usenet
    > - Doesn't care about it anyway
    > - Is IT-professional
    >
    > --
    > Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
    > mail: echo qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
    > #bofh excuse 300: Digital Manipulator exceeding velocity
    > parameters[/ref]

    admin@unixtalk.info Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    On 12 Apr 2006 05:56:41 -0700, info <info> wrote: 

    Odd that your domain doesn't seem to resolve.
     

    And what does your forum offer me that this one does not? By the way,
    your shift key seems not to work. In a field where precision matters,
    that sort of thing is hard not to notice.
     

    What does that forum offer that this one does not? It sounds like you
    have a "solution" in search of a problem.

    Next we'll take up "Top-posting: why it's bad".


    Dave Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    info wrote: 

    But what does it offer than a newsgroup does not?

    Most of these sites start free, then you get ads all over the place. I suspect
    if there were as many posts/day as on the UNIX newsgroups you would need to find
    a way of financing it, or would be tempted by offers of finance that would mean
    ads on the pages.

    Sites like

    http://www.experts-exchange.com/

    make me laugh. Sure I am going to register on a secure server to read the posts
    they have captured from elsewhere and added some ads to to enhance them. No thanks.

    Then there is 2cpu.com

    http://www.2cpu.com/

    which many say is good, but the ads on that me off so much I can hardly
    bring myself to use it. I've emailed them to say the ads are too much, but that
    seems to have gone to /dev/null.

    Tying "unix forum" into Google and I get 44,700,000 hits. There are loads of
    UNIX forums out there.

    For me at least, newsgroups beat any of these forums. So like Dave Hinz, I'll
    be staying on the newsgroups for the forseable future.

    However, if you have a *compelling* argument for why we should use your forum,
    please let me know. I'm not too stubborn to change if there is a better
    alternative, but I am just not convinced there is at this point.


    -----
    Dave K MCSE.

    MCSE = Minefield Consultant and Solitaire Expert.

    Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
    It is always of the form: Hitting reply will work
    for a couple of months only. Later set it manually.
    Dave Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support


    Dave Hinz wrote: 

    I'm offering you a verity, some people will post on the same forum
    over and over and get opinion and answers from the same group. Some
    would like to get different opinions, and get answers from all
    different groups..
    It seems that you are getting insulted that a new forum was opened?
    You don't have to go and post anything on it, but some people might
    want to do so.
    If it is offending you then I apologies, that was not the intent of
    this message.
    I'm just offering an alternative, and trying to get a site started,
    if you want to post on it you are more then welcome to do so, if not
    you don't have to.
    You keeping asking me what do I have to offer you, the only offer is an
    answer, I'm not selling you the idea, I'm just putting a post.
    That's all.

    admin@unixtalk.info Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    On 12 Apr 2006 06:54:15 -0700, info <info> wrote: 
    >
    > I'm offering you a verity, some people will post on the same forum
    > over and over and get opinion and answers from the same group.[/ref]

    What's a verity?

    We have what you describe here, now, in a format that can be accessed
    from anywhere.
     

    No, I have asked several times what you offer that this group does not.
    I mean, if you have something that adds value, by all means, tell us
    what it is. If not, it seems like you're going to be yet another in a
    long chain of site owners who are enthused about it to start, then they
    either get bored with it and it goes away, or they get greedy and start
    charging.

    I don't see the advantage. Tell me what the advantage is.
     

    It's not just for _me_ that I'm asking what the point is, it's so others
    can see your response and, quite frankly, judge your intent by your
    responses.
     

    Good luck.

    Dave Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Begin <googlegroups.com>
    On 2006-04-12, info <info> wrote: 

    Good to know. From your posts I'd never have gathered.

    You still haven't given a compelling reason why your brand spanking
    shiny new site would be more desirable to use than, say, USENET, except
    by implying that it's just the thing for people who somehow will not or
    can not write a proper[1] and readable posting.


    [1] In netiquette context. See also RFC1855.

    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
    jpd Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Dave (from the UK) wrote: [/ref]

    Go easy on the professional bit. You top-posted, failed to quote
    context, typed in all lower case, never answered the questions
    put to you.
     [/ref]

    Which is a nice thing to do *if* you can generate enough traffic
    to it to generate some amount of brand name recognition.
    Remember, since UseNet posts have been archived for going
    on 3 decades you'll need to have some sort of funding to be
    able to archive forever.
     [/ref]

    See my quip on the professional bit.
     [/ref]

    Okay, but on this newsgroup you'll get answers from folks
    with decades of experience doing so, and there's the fact
    that the number of lurkers is large.
     

    I'll offer one - moderation. Web fora are trivially moderated.
    Since CUA is not flooded with trolls it's a point without
    value in this particular instance. Funny how folks don't
    want to flood a group whose members run their machines ...
     

    Given that I post through Google like the OP, this is not
    a point that bothers me. As long as none of the ads are
    ever pop-ups and none ever contain animation or audio,
    it won't bother me. Sometimes I ignore banner ads or
    whatever the ones at the edge of the view are currently
    called, sometimes I glance at them, but they don't
    happen to bother my. YMMV and I'm aware my opinion
    is not in the majority on this.
     

    So the question becomes how its traffic beats the others,
    and demonstrating professionalism helps with that.
     

    And so this thread should be viewed as a teaching tool -

    If you wanted to form a forum that managed to beat
    comp.unix.admin, just how would you go about it?

    The annual SAGE LISA conference did so by going the in-person
    route, but it's annual cycle is conducive to long term planning,
    process improvement, best practices and such. That means it
    managed to acheive its value by *not* competing with
    comp.unix.admin.

    The HPUX web site contains user forums that seem to give
    the best support available in that vendor-specific realm. No
    newsgroup has the HPUX experts that HP formums have.
    One advantage they have is they are manufacturer driven.
    Another is they have full time staff with access to the OS
    source code. That means they managed to acheive its
    value by having unlimited funding when compared to the
    completely unfunded comp.unix.admin.

    There are consulting companies that maintain internal
    knowledgebases that beat comp.unix.admin. Every single
    company with such an internal knowledgebase restricts
    its access to their own consultants because the additional
    value of knowledgebase access gives their employees a
    competitive edge. The companies with the best ones give
    public praise to the top contributors, include contributions to
    the internal knowledge base into bonus calculations. So
    again like the HP forums the way to beat comp.unix.admin
    is with money, experience in the real world, full time staff.

    Is it a good idea to build a forum? Yes. The experience
    doing the web work is valuable in and of itself. Can there be
    a reasonable expectation that it can compete with CUA?
    Not really. If the viewpoint is that the regulars on CUA
    dominate, that same trend will happen on the new forum.
    Only the names will change. And that too is an experience
    that has such value that it's worth doing just for that
    experience.

    Doug Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    :)
    wow, ..I'm just getting killed here.

    it's just a post ...for people to take a look that's all, i didn't know
    that i would get such a response.

    I'm not trying to beat comp.unix.admin, I'm just trying to offer
    you other solutions

    And for how will I finance it, there is a million and one solution, but
    it does not involve charging you for the site


    And as for Doug's post I like it especially this part, as it's very
    relevent

    " The HPUX web site contains user forums that seem to give
    the best support available in that vendor-specific realm. No
    newsgroup has the HPUX experts that HP formums have.
    One advantage they have is they are manufacturer driven.
    Another is they have full time staff with access to the OS
    source code. That means they managed to acheive its
    value by having unlimited funding when compared to the
    completely unfunded comp.unix.admin.
    There are consulting companies that maintain internal
    knowledgebases that beat comp.unix.admin. Every single
    company with such an internal knowledgebase restricts
    its access to their own consultants because the additional
    value of knowledgebase access gives their employees a
    competitive edge. The companies with the best ones give
    public praise to the top contributors, include contributions to
    the internal knowledge base into bonus calculations. So
    again like the HP forums the way to beat comp.unix.admin
    is with money, experience in the real world, full time staff.
    "

    admin@unixtalk.info Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    On 12 Apr 2006 08:06:17 -0700, info <info> wrote: 

    No, we're trying to _help_ you understand. And you are still
    top-posting. And unixtalk.info _still_ doesn't resolve.
     

    To what problems?

    Dave Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Hi Dave
    www.unixtalk.info

    i just tested it and it resolved fine, from my desk and other
    co-workers desk.

    try this link

    http://www.unixtalk.info/

    admin@unixtalk.info Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    In comp.unix.admin Dave Hinz <net>: [/ref]
     
     [/ref]
     

    Thx to you, Doug and others for all the replies, much fun
    reading. ;-))

    --
    Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
    mail: echo qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
    #bofh excuse 414: tachyon emissions overloading the system
    Michael Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    In article <net>,
    jpd <not.spam.it.invalid> wrote:
     
    >
    > Good to know. From your posts I'd never have gathered.
    >
    > You still haven't given a compelling reason why your brand spanking
    > shiny new site would be more desirable to use than, say, USENET, except
    > by implying that it's just the thing for people who somehow will not or
    > can not write a proper[1] and readable posting.
    >
    >
    > [1] In netiquette context. See also RFC1855.[/ref]

    This thread really illustrates the concept "resistance to change" from
    what's known and works. The old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix
    it." fits in here somewhere also.

    I'm the webmaster for a site of non-technical people running a
    non-profit. Some of us are part of a private majordomo email forum
    that's been around since 1997. I was asked to setup something similar
    for the non-profit and it's 800 members.

    Our ISP actively discouraged me from doing so. They _hate_ email lists
    as so many people view stuff from the senders as spam. So I setup an
    on-line forum like the one the OP created. It got very little traffic
    despite being mentioned numerous times in the newsletters and at our big
    annual meeting/symposium gathering in October.

    The OP was trying to create traffic for his site, albeit in a
    spamvertizing kinda way. I'm trying to increase traffic to our forums,
    but a number of people keep asking "why can't you just use email
    instead?" Yet our ISP really doesn't want us doing this. Professional
    list servers cost 3x/month than our basic ISP account, so we're stuck
    with web forums for now.

    I don't think a news server and private newsgroup are an option for this
    people either. They have enough trouble with computers, email, and a
    browser.

    --
    DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...



    Michael Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Begin <dca.giganews.com>
    On 2006-04-12, Michael Vilain <net> wrote: 

    Not only that, but many people are too fscking stupid to a) subscribe,
    b) remember they are subscribed, c) keep the confirmation mail that
    also describes how to unsubscribe, d) refrain from foot in mouth type
    actions like shouting Tuttle style to unsubscribe on the list, write
    abuse reports on subscribed lists, or actually calling the feds over it,
    g) all of the above.

    I don't see how it can be too bloody hard but apparently it is. An
    interesting experiment in this area was clueless-l, but it seems to have
    stopped existing some time ago.


    [snip] 

    You could use a web front-end to a private news server[1]. It would at
    least be much less in the way of reinventing USENET, badly.


    [1] And for that purpose, it doesn't even conflict with my .sig. :-)

    --
    j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
    This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
    Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
    consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
    jpd Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Michael Vilain wrote: 

    Interesting viewpoint.

    To me it was about software reuse - either reinvent the wheel
    or link to the existing concept your choice. Those who do not
    link to the software library are doomed to reimplement it again
    and again in slightly worse and subtly different ways each
    time. Modules were intended to resolve that and UseNet is
    just another module.

    It was also about market forces and learning. Someone who
    hopes to deliver enough value in their new site better show
    enough skill to suggest it's worth a try. Skill maps across
    some realms so typing in all lower case, failure to quote parts,
    failure to explain the site's unique value don't demonstrate
    skill. Rather like my quick typing and occasional missed or
    duplicated words indicate that I need to double check my
    tasks as I execute them.

    A site with no known uniqueness, with hundreds or preexisting
    competitors, with unskilled advertising, how likely is it to hold
    value? To me that's a challenge to the authors to show
    distinctness, skill and value. But even without any of those
    it remains a valid skill building exercise to build such a forum.
    A task for its own sake as well as a chance to be shown what
    others expect.

    To me it's not "if it ain't broke don't fix it". To me it's "if it's
    not
    better it's not a fix". And to some extent "if the cover is poorly
    done I'm not going to read the book to judge its content".

    Doug Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    In comp.unix.admin Doug Freyburger <com>: [/ref]
     
     

    To me http forum look like those who dunno about mailing lists
    and usenet are doomed to reinvent things with poor outcome.

    Personally I'm not a real fan of all those forums, they are
    missing:

    - Use of my favorite editor
    - Missing spell checking
    - No or pretty lame kill filling capability
    - No possibility to just pipe an article through whatever I like
    - post bone articles
    - content if any can be easily lost
    - more difficult to search
    - dozens more

    In short, a sad joke compared to leafnode + tin and the use of
    groups.google for what it was intended (search able archive).

    [ strong points ]

    --
    Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
    mail: echo qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
    #bofh excuse 131: telnet: Unable to connect to remote host:
    Connection refused
    Michael Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    Dave (from the UK) wrote:

    [..]
     

    Actually, that's not what they do. First of all, I am no fan of web fora
    such as the OP is advertising, and I prefer USENET for technical
    discussion. But, I've found Experts-Exchange useful enough to me in my
    daily work to sign up. And to be fair, they don't "capture" posts from
    elsewhere and recycle them. At least, I haven't seen that. On two or
    three occasions I've posted questions regarding difficult technical
    issues I was fighting with and received intelligent and helpful
    responses. Would I have received similar responses if I had posted to
    USENET instead? Probably. I'm not arguing that point; I'm merely
    suggesting that you have mis-characterized the nature of their site.

    DISCLAIMER: I have no financial interest in or arrangement with
    Experts-Exchange other than as an end-user/member.

    Regards,

    com
    --
    NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
    Andrew Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: New Internet Forum for Unix Support

    In article <67.96.135>,
    "Dave (from the UK)"
    <org.uk> wrote:
     

    What does any web forum offer that a newsgroup doesn't? You could just
    as well ask why Slashdot exists, when all of its material could easily
    be in newsgroups. Yet there are thousands of web forums, many of which
    are on the same topics as existing Usenet newsgroups.

    What they offer is a different user community -- believe it or not,
    there are thousands of competent computer professionals who never use
    Usenet.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***
    Barry Guest

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