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New to MacOS - Mac Programming

Hi, Both myself and my company are new to Mac development, but I have nevertheless been charged with developing a Mac version of an existing Windows application. I have a nice G5 Mac with OS 10.3.4 to do the development on, and I have a few basic questions about how to get started. I have begun reading through some of the resources on developer.apple.com, and I have also started looking through O'Reilly's book on Cocoa development. Can anyone give me a few pointers on the following (or anything else that might be useful to a rank beginner on the Mac)? ...

  1. #1

    Default New to MacOS

    Hi,

    Both myself and my company are new to Mac development, but I have
    nevertheless been charged with developing a Mac version of an existing
    Windows application. I have a nice G5 Mac with OS 10.3.4 to do the
    development on, and I have a few basic questions about how to get
    started. I have begun reading through some of the resources on
    developer.apple.com, and I have also started looking through
    O'Reilly's book on Cocoa development. Can anyone give me a few
    pointers on the following (or anything else that might be useful to a
    rank beginner on the Mac)? I have done quite a bit of development on
    Windows and some work on various flavors of UN*X and even on OS/2 in a
    variety of languages including C/C++.

    1. Is it possible/advisable to use XCode to build an application that
    will run on both OS X and OS 9? What are the advantages/disadvantages
    (other than the larger number of potential users)?

    2. Are there any pitfalls I need to be aware of when developing on a
    G5 regarding targeting G4 (and earlier?) processors?

    3. Is it possible to test OS 9 applications on OS X with a G5? I
    haven't had any luck trying to run any older software yet, but like I
    said, I'm a rank beginner.

    4. Can anyone point me at any good resources for developing a "real"
    Mac application, rather than trying to cram my Windoze habits into a
    Mac project?

    I apologize for posting before I've done much homework for myself, but
    I'm on a very tight schedule and still largely in the dark, so I want
    to avoid losing any more time. Any help at all would be greatly
    appreciated. I am pretty excited about finally getting to work with
    OS X, and I would like to make as good an impression on both users and
    employer as possible.

    Thanks,

    Jon

    P.S. - Any general tips/guides for making the most of the Mac I'm now
    using would be nice, too. I'm slowly figuring out that (apple) +
    whatever is often the equivalent of Windows Ctrl + whatever, but I'm
    sure there are more little tips for Windows refugees that would be
    useful. I tried poking around the "Switch" pages at apple.com, but I
    found surprisingly little along those lines.
    Jon Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    Everything you hear from everyone will be "IMHO"


    1. XCode does not support OS9 in any way, shape, or form. Be cautious using
    it for large projects: it is extremely slow and does not handle more than a
    few hundred source files without bogging down completely (we're talking
    10-20 seconds to open a file from the IDE on a G4/800 - I gave up on it at
    that point.) I personally hate the interface, but you may like it: by
    default it's similar to VS6.
    CodeWarrior is expensive and not as well integrated w/ the OS as XCode, but
    it IS a commercial quality development system, with hugely faster and better
    compilers and linkers. XCode does better starter projects and has some
    advantages for advanced and Cocoa debugging, but if you're at that level you
    can probably just use gdb directly.

    2. You shouldn't have problems with the G5 unless you explicitly develop for
    it (in which case you won't work on anything older, same situation as
    Altivec.) Obviously there are OS/hardware differences and tricks to make the
    most of what you have: Apple has decent info on this on their developer
    site.

    3. If you have access to a decent OS9 machine and have much testing and
    debugging to do, it might be worth your time to do it there. You'll reboot a
    lot more, but you'll save a lot of time waiting for the debugger to start up
    compared to OS X. Until very recently I did all debugging on 9 because the
    30 seconds or so that I saved each time more than balanced the half dozen
    extra reboots / day. (YMMV: I hear the G5 is a lot quicker: on a G4 it
    currently takes about a second to single step, which becomes very annoying.)

    Google for and obtain both Cocoa Browser and App Ki Do if you intend to ever
    write a Cocoa program: they're free browsers for the Apple docs and header
    files. They do the same thing slightly differently (I use both
    simultaneously) and make using Cocoa possible. Apple's doentation is
    dreadful, one area where MSDN completely s them away (and always has.)
    Their recently redesigned reference site is worse (again, IMHO) than what
    came before.

    Read Apple's Human Interface Guidelines and look at as many different Mac
    applications as you can manage. Apple users are very much more sensitive to
    UI deviations than Windows users, and it's the fastest way for an otherwise
    good program to get beat up on reviews.

    Keep repeating to yourself "there is no COM..." until it becomes second
    nature.



    "Jon" <com> wrote in message
    news:google.com... 


    Paul Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    Paul wrote: 

    wow, not my experience at ALL! i've got an xcode project with over 400
    source and header files in it, and i see very little speed difference
    between that project and tiny demo ones with only a few files. i run it
    on an 867MHz G4 single-cpu powermac with 1.5GB of ram.

    using pre-compiled headers, compilation speed is much improved over
    project builder. linking stays pretty fast also, even without zerolink,
    which is too weird and buggy to use. my 400-file project takes about
    eight seconds to link in xcode. that same project on beos takes 45
    seconds to link.
     

    again, hearty disagreement. i paid for codewarrior 8.0, and of all the
    multi-hundred-buck software products i've ever bought, that was far and
    away the worst. endless crashes, tons of trying to get things worked
    out between metrowerks' stuff and apple's stuff, very ugly and poorly
    arranged ide, poor debugging, etc. absolutely nothing about the
    experience was positive. reading the codewarrior newsgroup, i don't
    think they've got those problems under control yet, either. i used to
    be a big metrowerks booster, i was completely shocked at how bad their
    product has gotten.

    if you have to target OS9, you don't have a real choice, though. thank
    god i don't have to.
     

    i had a hard time getting started with it. they don't seem to have any
    good tutorials. but that's what you buy third-party books for. now
    that i mostly know what i'm doing, and use the docs only for reference,
    they seem adequate to me.

    it would be nice if they'd go into more detail. there are many subtle
    points that i never pick up on until i've actually written some code
    that uses the apis in question. that might happen no matter what,
    though.
    Jhnny Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    In article <google.com>, Jon
    <com> wrote:
     

    You can't use Xcode for OS 9, nor can you use Cocoa. If you will be
    developing in C++ for OS 9, you will need CodeWarrior. For some kinds
    of products, REALbasic might be an alternative.
     

    To a degree, yes, you can run an OS 9 app in "classic" mode. However,
    you may be able to get an older machine pretty cheap. (I've found that
    most charities won't even take anything less than a G3.)
    James Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    dans l'article 270520042256346570%com.invalid, James W.
    Walker com.invalid a crit le 28/05/04 7:56:
     
    >
    > You can't use Xcode for OS 9, nor can you use Cocoa. If you will be
    > developing in C++ for OS 9, you will need CodeWarrior. For some kinds
    > of products, REALbasic might be an alternative.

    >
    > To a degree, yes, you can run an OS 9 app in "classic" mode. However,
    > you may be able to get an older machine pretty cheap. (I've found that
    > most charities won't even take anything less than a G3.)[/ref]

    Now are you sure you really want to target OS 9 ?

    Users who stick to OS 9 typically don't want to spend the money to switch to
    OS X, so will they buy your software ?

    Eric

    Eric Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    In article <google.com>,
    com (Jon) wrote:
     

    If you are on a very tight schedule and want to develop a 'real'
    Mac application, you should seriously consider hiring somebody who knows
    the Mac. This is particularly true if you are considering a Mac OS 9
    port.
     


    The online help has a section "New to Mac OS X", with a subsection "For
    Windows switchers"

    There also is a book called 'Crossing Platforms: A Macintosh Windows
    Phrasebook' by Adam Engst and David Pogue. I believe it predates Mac OS
    X, but it may still be useful.

    Finally, <http://developer.apple.com/gettingstarted/> probably is a good
    starting point for your reading.

    Reinder
    Reinder Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    Jhnny Fvrt (it means "halo, then resonate") <com> wrote in message news:<nashville.comcast.net>... 

    Unless you are addicted to IDEs, MPW is still a very real choice,
    offering industrial strength compilers and some other advantages over
    CW (not least of which, cost!), especially if your build process is
    non-trivial. It will happily build for OS X, OS 9 and pre-Carbon
    MacOS.

    http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/

    Toby
    Toby Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: New to MacOS

    Hi Toby,

    com.au (Toby Thain) writes: 

    While I like MPW, I'd also like to note that it has the disadvantage
    that it doesn't come with a state-of-the-art C++ compiler (MPW was
    frozen before the C++ standard came out).

    benny
    Benjamin Guest

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