newbe

[Artemio]

Clif Gallagher wrote:

> I have just installed debian for the first time. When it loads it loads
> only to a command line, Is this normal? if not how do I get to a kde
> desktop. I've been searching the manual for hours and just don't have a
> good understanding of how Linux works. but determined to get rid of
> windows! Thanks Mark

To start kde on boot: edit /etc/inittab

change the line:
id:3:initdefault:

to
id:5:initdefault:


("3" means multiuser no-X-window mode, "5" - multiuser X-window mode)

And then, when you boot and see a login screen, set the default desktop
manager to KDE.


That should be all.


Good luck!

[Thomas T. Newman]

Keith wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:53:37 -0600, Clif Gallagher wrote:
>
>

>>I have just installed debian for the first time. When it loads it loads
>>only to a command line, Is this normal? if not how do I get to a kde
>>desktop. I've been searching the manual for hours and just don't have a
>>good understanding of how Linux works. but determined to get rid of
>>windows! Thanks Mark
>>

>
>
> If you installed the X server and software then
> startx
> should start up X.
>
> To be honest Red Hat or Mandrake is best for newbies and a lot easier to
> maintain.
>

As I understand Marks post, he just has a basic Debian (woody?)
installation. And iirc he is right, there is no easy to follow howto or
something how to come from there to a working X Environment - at least
to one that is not ridiculously outdated.
So what he needs to know is how to install applications.

Mark, if these are your first steps in Linux I must admit that my
predecessor is right, you should first install one of those
Distributions mentioned above, maybe SuSE is not to bad either, at least
my father is happy with it.
There you can slowly dive into the dependencies and configurations of
Linux applications. You will have a hard live if you try to do this with
Debian unless you have a really good friend who is patient, able and
willing to answer all your questions.

Regards,
TTN

[Peter T. Breuer]

Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> As I understand Marks post, he just has a basic Debian (woody?)
> installation. And iirc he is right, there is no easy to follow howto or
> something how to come from there to a working X Environment - at least

Of course there is. He just has to install the X server. That includes
a config step! And if he wants to configure it anytime later he has to
run dpkg-reconfigure. Not that anyone would care, since they can run
XFree86 -configure right off the bat.

> to one that is not ridiculously outdated.

I beg your pardon? Why would "outdated" in the first instance be bad,
and in the second instance be meaningful? There is nothing good about
buggy software, you know!

> So what he needs to know is how to install applications.

He already knows. "apt-get xserver", for example.

Peter

[Ian Northeast]

Artemio wrote:

>
> Clif Gallagher wrote:
>

> > I have just installed debian for the first time. When it loads it loads
> > only to a command line, Is this normal? if not how do I get to a kde
> > desktop. I've been searching the manual for hours and just don't have a
> > good understanding of how Linux works. but determined to get rid of
> > windows! Thanks Mark

>
> To start kde on boot: edit /etc/inittab
>
> change the line:
> id:3:initdefault:
>
> to
> id:5:initdefault:
>
> ("3" means multiuser no-X-window mode, "5" - multiuser X-window mode)
>
> And then, when you boot and see a login screen, set the default desktop
> manager to KDE.

Not all Linux distros use run level numbers to determine whether to
start XDM and in particular Debian does not "out of the box". Changing
the run level to 5 in an unmodified Debian system will have no effect
(and the default is 2 not 3).

Debian uses the presence or absence of a link to /etc/init.d/xdm (gdm,
kdm..) in the appropriate run level directory, normally /etc/rc2.d as
its default run level is 2, to determine whether to start XDM. This will
normally be there if an XDM server is installed. Of course, you *could*
set up Debian to behave as you describe but this is not the sort of
thing that someone posing the original question would be attempting just
yet.

To the OP: If you really want graphical login, install an XDM server -
for instance "apt-get install xdm". The default configuration will give
you a graphical login. Personally I prefer to use a text login and start
the X server / desktop manager with "startx" after logging in.

It has been mentioned previously that Debian is not really targeted at
newbies and I agree with this. It is a fine distro but it does not hold
your hand to any noticeable degree and works best if you have some
experience. Distros like Red Hat and SuSE are easier to approach. At
work we use SuSE on both servers and workstations and I have a feeling
that one or two of my colleagues (co-workers for those on the wrong side
of the Atlantic) would have a bit of trouble with Debian.

Regards, Ian

[Thomas T. Newman]

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>to one that is not ridiculously outdated.

>
>
> I beg your pardon? Why would "outdated" in the first instance be bad,
> and in the second instance be meaningful? There is nothing good about
> buggy software, you know!

I was speaking about the graphical user interface.
KDE 3.x doesn't exactly behave "buggy" in my daily use, and KDE 2.x is
ridiculously outdated by the further.
Does it come with the current stable release of Debian?
I know the reasons why not, but these reasons lead to an outdated X
System, which doesn't make Debian (without tinkering) competitive as a
desktop system, and as such it is definitely not usable for newbies.
(You wouldn't want to refer to testing or unstable, would you? There is
nothing good about buggy software!)

A newbie doesn't know about dpkg-reconfigure and when to use it. Maybe
it is a long time since you where newbie, but I remember my newbie time
and Debian is hard stuff. 3 "different" methods (dselect, apt, dpkg)
each coming with different suboptions where one has no idea how they
relate to each other or what they do anyway are not easy to manage. Of
course its not only great but supreme once you know what you're doing,
but newbies have to do enough to learn that a window manager depends on
X and that X does not by itself have usable window managers and so on,
they have to find out package names of the programs which do what they
want! They don't have nerves to learn the different levels of a
packaging system.
Let them use rpm for a while, if they get the hang on Linux they will
soon ask for a better packaging system. Then point to Debian.

m2c
TTN

[Peter T. Breuer]

Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>> Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>to one that is not ridiculously outdated.

>>
>>
>> I beg your pardon? Why would "outdated" in the first instance be bad,
>> and in the second instance be meaningful? There is nothing good about
>> buggy software, you know!

> I was speaking about the graphical user interface.
> KDE 3.x doesn't exactly behave "buggy" in my daily use, and KDE 2.x is
> ridiculously outdated by the further.

Why? I use kde 1.1. What's "outdated" about it? I notice nothing it
lacks. It does everything I want.

> Does it come with the current stable release of Debian?

What is that? I use potato. I think the current stable is woody. You
can compile anything for one distro of debian for another. I'm sure I
have some recent kdes compiled for my potato on some machines. But just
go look it up. Why ask me?

> I know the reasons why not, but these reasons lead to an outdated X

What's "outdated" about it? Except your concept!

> System, which doesn't make Debian (without tinkering) competitive as a

Of course it does.

> desktop system, and as such it is definitely not usable for newbies.

Sure it is. What do you think is lacking?

> (You wouldn't want to refer to testing or unstable, would you? There is
> nothing good about buggy software!)

Exactly - so use something stable. That = good.

> A newbie doesn't know about dpkg-reconfigure and when to use it. Maybe

So what? All he has to do is install the X server and it'll be
configured.

> it is a long time since you where newbie, but I remember my newbie time
> and Debian is hard stuff. 3 "different" methods (dselect, apt, dpkg)

Never use anything except apt and dpkg. Apt is all you need.

> each coming with different suboptions where one has no idea how they
> relate to each other or what they do anyway are not easy to manage. Of

Why should one? A simple "apt-get install xserver" will do you. Try
--reinstall if you want to do it again! Or simply remove and then
install.

> course its not only great but supreme once you know what you're doing,
> but newbies have to do enough to learn that a window manager depends on

No they don't. They know it.

> X and that X does not by itself have usable window managers and so on,

Of course. That's why they should install one.

> they have to find out package names of the programs which do what they

For that there is search.

> want! They don't have nerves to learn the different levels of a

There aren't any levels, and if they don't want to learn how to
unpackage their xmas prsent, they won't get any.

> packaging system.
> Let them use rpm for a while, if they get the hang on Linux they will

apt-get works much better than rpm. How is it different?

> soon ask for a better packaging system. Then point to Debian.

Peter

[Thomas T. Newman]

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> Why? I use kde 1.1. What's "outdated" about it? I notice nothing it
> lacks. It does everything I want.

Its about comfortability and look. But anyway, if you're happy with it,
stay so.

>>desktop system, and as such it is definitely not usable for newbies.

>
>
> Sure it is. What do you think is lacking?

Well, just go a few threads further than, and explain him how to set up
sound.
It's easy, though, he just needs to compile a new kernel :-) which is an
easy 3-step-task one of them including to know all his hardware.

TTN

[Peter T. Breuer]

Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>> Why? I use kde 1.1. What's "outdated" about it? I notice nothing it
>> lacks. It does everything I want.

> Its about comfortability and look. But anyway, if you're happy with it,
> stay so.

>>>desktop system, and as such it is definitely not usable for newbies.

>>
>> Sure it is. What do you think is lacking?

> Well, just go a few threads further than, and explain him how to set up
> sound.

I don't understand - sound works fine here.

> It's easy, though, he just needs to compile a new kernel :-) which is an

No - you never need to compile a kernel for sound! Load the driver
(module) and fin. Are you saying that debian doesn't supply all the
drivers? I don't know - never used a debian kernel package, but I am
pretty sure that modules come in a separate package from the kernel
itself. Is that confusing you? I see quite a few module packages
available.

> easy 3-step-task one of them including to know all his hardware.

Well if he doesn't know what his hardware is, what does he know? Does
he think he has a tv set with a typewriter attached? Let him load the
driver for his sound card and have an end to it. He must be able to
read the list of drivers and the list of cards and put the two
together. What? Oh, you mean he can't /find/ the list of drivers and
cards ...

Peter

[Thomas T. Newman]

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>
> I don't understand - sound works fine here.

I never doubted it. Works perfectly here, too.

>>It's easy, though, he just needs to compile a new kernel :-) which is an

>
>
> No - you never need to compile a kernel for sound! Load the driver
> (module) and fin. Are you saying that debian doesn't supply all the
> drivers? I don't know - never used a debian kernel package, but I am
> pretty sure that modules come in a separate package from the kernel
> itself. Is that confusing you? I see quite a few module packages
> available.

I admit that I never tried just reloading a module, but assuming we're
talking about ALSA modules here, every howto I read was starting with
"first you must recompile your kernel with "support sound" as the only
option in the sound section".
And IIRC I read about the day before yesterday that the Debian kernels
vanilla and ide-pci don't come with sound support at all.
Sad, that.
Anyway, at least now you want the newbie to know about kernels and
kernel modules. An installation which would serve a newbie is where
during the system setup there is a list of soundcards where he selects
one and from then on everything works - without adding the user in the
groups audio and/or cdrom by hand!

> together. What? Oh, you mean he can't /find/ the list of drivers and
> cards ...

You seem to get the idea.

I never said Debian wouldn't be able to serve fantastically as a
(Desktop) operation system. But it doesn't do so out of the box, in
almost every step you need to *know* things, and be it only the
knowledge where to find things.
And if the only thing you know about computers is how to double-click
through the windows explorer it is *not* a trivial task to set up
Debian. And, in my environment people seem to be able to accept Debian
better if they used one of the commercial distributions first for some time.

TTN

[Thomas T. Newman]

Wolfgang Fischer wrote:

>
> KDE provides KDE 3.1 packages for debian. You have to insert a line in
> your /etc/apt/sources.list, run apt-get update and install kde. See
> [url]http://kde.org/download/[/url] for more details.

And from now on you are doing what I called "tinkering with the system"
in some other post above.

Is it so difficult to understand that newbies generally are afraid to or
incapable of "just adding" a line here and there? You know, you need to
know an editor to do that.
What I hate most about vi is that on startup there is nowhere a message
how I can leave it again. I only get "<char> is not a vi command".

TTN

[Peter T. Breuer]

Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>> No - you never need to compile a kernel for sound! Load the driver
>> (module) and fin. Are you saying that debian doesn't supply all the
>> drivers? I don't know - never used a debian kernel package, but I am
>> pretty sure that modules come in a separate package from the kernel
>> itself. Is that confusing you? I see quite a few module packages
>> available.

> I admit that I never tried just reloading a module, but assuming we're
> talking about ALSA modules here, every howto I read was starting with

I thought we were talking about "ordinary" (i.e. OSS) sound drivers.

> "first you must recompile your kernel with "support sound" as the only
> option in the sound section".

It is compiled that way. That's why/how sound drivers are loaded as
modules.

> And IIRC I read about the day before yesterday that the Debian kernels
> vanilla and ide-pci don't come with sound support at all.

Load a sound module and find out ...

> Anyway, at least now you want the newbie to know about kernels and

No, he knows all he needs to know about them. He calls them "drivers".
Now he needs to know which driver he has to load. It should have come
on the manufacturers instructions with his soundcard ...

>> together. What? Oh, you mean he can't /find/ the list of drivers and
>> cards ...

> You seem to get the idea.

Peter

[Thomas T. Newman]

Peter T. Breuer wrote:

> Load a sound module and find out ...

I might try that sometime..when I get access to a card that is supported
by OSS...

> No, he knows all he needs to know about them. He calls them "drivers".
> Now he needs to know which driver he has to load. It should have come
> on the manufacturers instructions with his soundcard ...

*g* sure
</irony>

TTN

[Peter T. Breuer]

Thomas T. Newman <thomastnewman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Peter T. Breuer wrote:

>> Load a sound module and find out ...

> I might try that sometime..when I get access to a card that is supported
> by OSS...

Try a soundblaster.

Peter

[cliff]

I'M having a problem getting the settings right to print out photo in
photo shop 7.0 i'm getting a green look to the photo's . I'm using a
epson 2200 could someone tell me the basic settings? Thanks ireally
need the help

[Québec]

Hi everyone and all,

I would like to know if something like this is possible. Let say $minus_me
is an integer from 0 to 15

$result = mysql_query('SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE Date > NOW() -
"$minus_me" ;');

Jean


--

--
[url]http://jeanpierredaviau.com[/url]

[Québec]

I must add I tried it and other possibilities without success.

Maybe ther is another way to do it.

Jean

[L�ʻie Techie]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:27:45 -0400, Québec wrote:

> Hi everyone and all,
>
> I would like to know if something like this is possible. Let say
> $minus_me is an integer from 0 to 15
>
> $result = mysql_query('SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE Date > NOW() -
> "$minus_me" ;');

Your problem arises from using single quotes.

$result = mysql_query('SELECT * from myTable WHERE Date > NOW() - " .
$minus_me );

Also, if $minus_me is coming from a web form, be sure to verify that it
is, in fact, an integer within your specified range.

HTH,
La'ie Techie

[Québec]

"La?ie Techie" <laie@win_remove_get_nospam_solutions.com> a écrit dans le
message de news:1095829851.Cg6gS4BHmw0Q4Fx4cCQNqA@teranews...

> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:27:45 -0400, Québec wrote:
>

> > Hi everyone and all,
> >
> > I would like to know if something like this is possible. Let say
> > $minus_me is an integer from 0 to 15
> >
> > $result = mysql_query('SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE Date > NOW() -
> > "$minus_me" ;');

>
> Your problem arises from using single quotes.
>
> $result = mysql_query('SELECT * from myTable WHERE Date > NOW() - " .
> $minus_me );
>
> Also, if $minus_me is coming from a web form, be sure to verify that it
> is, in fact, an integer within your specified range.
>
> HTH,
> La'ie Techie
>

$minusInt = (int)($_SERVER['QUERY_STRING']+1);
$result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM etudiants WHERE date > NOW()-
'$minusInt';");

Thank you very much,

Jean Pierre

[Charles Pelkey]

Look for DATEADD in the MySQL manual

-Charles

"Québec" <Once@WasEno.ugh> wrote in message
news:yTk4d.65356$ir6.2219198@wagner.videotron.net. ..

>
> "La?ie Techie" <laie@win_remove_get_nospam_solutions.com> a écrit dans le
> message de news:1095829851.Cg6gS4BHmw0Q4Fx4cCQNqA@teranews...

> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:27:45 -0400, Québec wrote:
> >

> > > Hi everyone and all,
> > >
> > > I would like to know if something like this is possible. Let say
> > > $minus_me is an integer from 0 to 15
> > >
> > > $result = mysql_query('SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE Date > NOW() -
> > > "$minus_me" ;');

> >
> > Your problem arises from using single quotes.
> >
> > $result = mysql_query('SELECT * from myTable WHERE Date > NOW() - " .
> > $minus_me );
> >
> > Also, if $minus_me is coming from a web form, be sure to verify that it
> > is, in fact, an integer within your specified range.
> >
> > HTH,
> > La'ie Techie
> >

>
> $minusInt = (int)($_SERVER['QUERY_STRING']+1);
> $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM etudiants WHERE date > NOW()-
> '$minusInt';");
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Jean Pierre
>
>
>

[Québec]

Thanks,



Jean Pierre

Or are you talking
"Charles Pelkey" <c.e.pelkey@sbcglobal.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:OpG5d.13763$yp2.12992@newssvr30.news.prodigy. com...

> Look for DATEADD in the MySQL manual
>
> -Charles
>
> "Québec" <Once@WasEno.ugh> wrote in message
> news:yTk4d.65356$ir6.2219198@wagner.videotron.net. ..

> >
> > "La?ie Techie" <laie@win_remove_get_nospam_solutions.com> a écrit dans

le

> > message de news:1095829851.Cg6gS4BHmw0Q4Fx4cCQNqA@teranews...

> > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:27:45 -0400, Québec wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone and all,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to know if something like this is possible. Let say
> > > > $minus_me is an integer from 0 to 15
> > > >
> > > > $result = mysql_query('SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE Date > NOW() -
> > > > "$minus_me" ;');
> > >
> > > Your problem arises from using single quotes.
> > >
> > > $result = mysql_query('SELECT * from myTable WHERE Date > NOW() - " .
> > > $minus_me );
> > >
> > > Also, if $minus_me is coming from a web form, be sure to verify that

it

> > > is, in fact, an integer within your specified range.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > La'ie Techie
> > >

> >
> > $minusInt = (int)($_SERVER['QUERY_STRING']+1);
> > $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM etudiants WHERE date > NOW()-
> > '$minusInt';");
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Jean Pierre
> >
> >
> >

>
>