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No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad??? - Mac Applications & Software

Al wrote: > You gotta spead the gospel. Preaching to the choir is useless. Well, your posts do have quite a bit in common with some religious conversion attempts I've seen, since they both contain points that are demonstratably wrong....

  1. #1

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    Al wrote:
    > You gotta spead the gospel. Preaching to the choir is useless.
    Well, your posts do have quite a bit in common with some religious
    conversion attempts I've seen, since they both contain points that are
    demonstratably wrong.

    Steven Fisher Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    Al wrote:
    > You gotta spead the gospel. Preaching to the choir is useless.
    Well, your posts do have quite a bit in common with some religious
    conversion attempts I've seen, since they both contain points that are
    demonstratably wrong.

    Steven Fisher Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???


    > From: Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net>
    > Organization: Shaw Residential Internet
    > Newsgroups:
    > comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system ,comp.sys.mac.apps
    > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:40:13 GMT
    > Subject: Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???
    >
    > D.F. Manno wrote:
    >
    >> Because I'd have to buy a new computer. OS X won't run on a PM 7500.
    >
    > That's kind of lame. I mean, sure, you want to stick with Mac OS 9 for
    > now, but for how long?
    someone mentioned that computers (almost) never wear out.. well software
    NEVER wears out.. it just loses support. And until you NEED the "next great
    thing" to come along, you don't need the upgrade.

    What's lame is having to have whatever is new just because it's out there..
    that's the kind of consumer Apple needs and good for you that you have the
    pocket book for it.

    ATM, I don't see a need either IE 6 or OS X.. I was just curious.
    > If you've been a Mac user for a while, you had a pre-PowerPC Mac. How
    > long did, say, System 7.5 or Mac OS 8.0 keep you from upgrading to a
    > PowerPC one?
    You asked.. the cost of upgrading to PPC forced me to move to a PC for
    everything but the infrequent use of Photoshop and Illustrator.. it was a PC
    I put together myself for $200 just for the heck of it back when I was using
    my Amiga.. I booted it once and it sat on a shelf after that for almost two
    years..

    But when the Amiga died, and when the promised PPC upgrade for my Performa
    didn't materialize, I gave up on Apple and dragged the PC out of mothballs
    for internet stuff and eventually more..

    Big reason (among many) why PCs have always outsold Macs? There's a heck of
    a lot more poor people in the world than rich ones.. people for whom even
    $100 difference in a system price is a big deal.. It's the same market
    Commodore used to rule over both PCs and Apple.. two decades and Apple still
    doesn't get it..

    I generally loath MS.. but I'm only back on a Mac 7600/G3 now because of
    eBay.. not Apple.

    d.


    Don Romero Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???


    > From: Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net>
    > Organization: Shaw Residential Internet
    > Newsgroups:
    > comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system ,comp.sys.mac.apps
    > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:40:13 GMT
    > Subject: Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???
    >
    > D.F. Manno wrote:
    >
    >> Because I'd have to buy a new computer. OS X won't run on a PM 7500.
    >
    > That's kind of lame. I mean, sure, you want to stick with Mac OS 9 for
    > now, but for how long?
    someone mentioned that computers (almost) never wear out.. well software
    NEVER wears out.. it just loses support. And until you NEED the "next great
    thing" to come along, you don't need the upgrade.

    What's lame is having to have whatever is new just because it's out there..
    that's the kind of consumer Apple needs and good for you that you have the
    pocket book for it.

    ATM, I don't see a need either IE 6 or OS X.. I was just curious.
    > If you've been a Mac user for a while, you had a pre-PowerPC Mac. How
    > long did, say, System 7.5 or Mac OS 8.0 keep you from upgrading to a
    > PowerPC one?
    You asked.. the cost of upgrading to PPC forced me to move to a PC for
    everything but the infrequent use of Photoshop and Illustrator.. it was a PC
    I put together myself for $200 just for the heck of it back when I was using
    my Amiga.. I booted it once and it sat on a shelf after that for almost two
    years..

    But when the Amiga died, and when the promised PPC upgrade for my Performa
    didn't materialize, I gave up on Apple and dragged the PC out of mothballs
    for internet stuff and eventually more..

    Big reason (among many) why PCs have always outsold Macs? There's a heck of
    a lot more poor people in the world than rich ones.. people for whom even
    $100 difference in a system price is a big deal.. It's the same market
    Commodore used to rule over both PCs and Apple.. two decades and Apple still
    doesn't get it..

    I generally loath MS.. but I'm only back on a Mac 7600/G3 now because of
    eBay.. not Apple.

    d.


    Don Romero Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    > unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    > deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    > sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    dump).

    I went the cheap-pc route for a linux box for the house. The
    basic machine at $399 was pretty slick, but before it was
    in any way usable, I had to dump another $150 in ram and a
    video card, salvage a monitor, etc. Top to bottom, the eMac,
    which includes MacOS, rather than Linux/Lindows (which while
    interesting are still not really useful to most end users),
    is really not a substantially more expensive choice. A
    comparable Windows machine costs very close to the same.
    > Personally, I don't have the money to buy a new G5, and I won't for at
    > least a couple of years, but I am basically a minimalist when it comes
    The G5s are interesting, but I don't see myself getting another
    desktop machine like that any time soon. The real demand explosion
    will come with that chip gets into the notebooks, I think.

    And, of course, the elimination of the G3s. Last ones left
    are the iBooks, no? Given the 12" powerbook with its recent
    price drop, we're almost there.

    --
    Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
    No HTML in E-Mail! -- [url]http://www.expita.com/nomime.html[/url]
    Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
    [url]http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting[/url]
    BreadWithSpam@fractious.net Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    > unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    > deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    > sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    dump).

    I went the cheap-pc route for a linux box for the house. The
    basic machine at $399 was pretty slick, but before it was
    in any way usable, I had to dump another $150 in ram and a
    video card, salvage a monitor, etc. Top to bottom, the eMac,
    which includes MacOS, rather than Linux/Lindows (which while
    interesting are still not really useful to most end users),
    is really not a substantially more expensive choice. A
    comparable Windows machine costs very close to the same.
    > Personally, I don't have the money to buy a new G5, and I won't for at
    > least a couple of years, but I am basically a minimalist when it comes
    The G5s are interesting, but I don't see myself getting another
    desktop machine like that any time soon. The real demand explosion
    will come with that chip gets into the notebooks, I think.

    And, of course, the elimination of the G3s. Last ones left
    are the iBooks, no? Given the 12" powerbook with its recent
    price drop, we're almost there.

    --
    Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
    No HTML in E-Mail! -- [url]http://www.expita.com/nomime.html[/url]
    Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow?
    [url]http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting[/url]
    BreadWithSpam@fractious.net Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    On 24 Jun 2003 15:01:43 -0400, [email]BreadWithSpamfractious.net[/email] wrote:
    >Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    >
    >> unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    >> deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    >> sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    >
    >It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    >usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    >hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    >dump).
    Please explain how a 128MB Linux machine (AMD 1.1 Ghz) with CDROM and
    10GB (20GB?) HDD is unusable. Please bear in mind that was a fairly
    high end machine in the Wintel world just 3 years ago.
    >I went the cheap-pc route for a linux box for the house. The
    >basic machine at $399 was pretty slick, but before it was
    >in any way usable, I had to dump another $150 in ram and a
    >video card, salvage a monitor, etc. Top to bottom, the eMac,
    >which includes MacOS, rather than Linux/Lindows (which while
    >interesting are still not really useful to most end users),
    >is really not a substantially more expensive choice. A
    >comparable Windows machine costs very close to the same.
    $200 for the Lindows box, plus $100 for a 17" monitor (Staples and
    Office Depot have specials from time to time) is still just $300 -
    pretty cheap.
    >> Personally, I don't have the money to buy a new G5, and I won't for at
    >> least a couple of years, but I am basically a minimalist when it comes
    >
    >The G5s are interesting, but I don't see myself getting another
    >desktop machine like that any time soon. The real demand explosion
    >will come with that chip gets into the notebooks, I think.
    >
    >And, of course, the elimination of the G3s. Last ones left
    >are the iBooks, no? Given the 12" powerbook with its recent
    >price drop, we're almost there.
    Just $600 to go - or 60% more than the base iBook.
    foo Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    On 24 Jun 2003 15:01:43 -0400, [email]BreadWithSpamfractious.net[/email] wrote:
    >Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    >
    >> unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    >> deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    >> sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    >
    >It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    >usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    >hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    >dump).
    Please explain how a 128MB Linux machine (AMD 1.1 Ghz) with CDROM and
    10GB (20GB?) HDD is unusable. Please bear in mind that was a fairly
    high end machine in the Wintel world just 3 years ago.
    >I went the cheap-pc route for a linux box for the house. The
    >basic machine at $399 was pretty slick, but before it was
    >in any way usable, I had to dump another $150 in ram and a
    >video card, salvage a monitor, etc. Top to bottom, the eMac,
    >which includes MacOS, rather than Linux/Lindows (which while
    >interesting are still not really useful to most end users),
    >is really not a substantially more expensive choice. A
    >comparable Windows machine costs very close to the same.
    $200 for the Lindows box, plus $100 for a 17" monitor (Staples and
    Office Depot have specials from time to time) is still just $300 -
    pretty cheap.
    >> Personally, I don't have the money to buy a new G5, and I won't for at
    >> least a couple of years, but I am basically a minimalist when it comes
    >
    >The G5s are interesting, but I don't see myself getting another
    >desktop machine like that any time soon. The real demand explosion
    >will come with that chip gets into the notebooks, I think.
    >
    >And, of course, the elimination of the G3s. Last ones left
    >are the iBooks, no? Given the 12" powerbook with its recent
    >price drop, we're almost there.
    Just $600 to go - or 60% more than the base iBook.
    foo Guest

  9. Moderated Post

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    Removed by Administrator
    BreadWithSpam@fractious.net Guest
    Moderated Post

  10. Moderated Post

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

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    BreadWithSpam@fractious.net Guest
    Moderated Post

  11. #11

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???


    > From: [email]BreadWithSpamfractious.net[/email]
    > Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
    > Newsgroups:
    > comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system ,comp.sys.mac.apps
    > Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:01:43 -0400
    > Subject: Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???
    >
    > Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    >
    >> unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    >> deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    >> sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    >
    > It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    > usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    > hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    > dump).
    Yeah, but if you know what yer doing, it's trivial salvage that's already
    paid for.. otherwise yer right.

    I've bought two different 7600 systems including shipping for under $350,
    from that I've built one system with G3, two HDs (3G & 1G) and upgraded
    graphic card and a USB card.. PLUS two monitors (17" Sony & 15" Apple AV)
    and two printers (only one worth mentioning is the HP 870cse) Just to make
    clear, that included shipping of everything for both systems.

    Cheap Macs aren't hard to come by.. but "cheap new off the shelf" Mac is
    almost an oxymoron. Market is too small and Apple just doesn't have the
    heart, or guts, to make it happen. In many ways, not much has really
    changed between the iMac and the old 5/6/7 "system of the week" days.

    Hardware is only one issue, of course.. computers are nothing without
    software.. if OS X (or a subsequent Mac OS version) breaks some or all of
    the critical software I use, then that's not an upgrade path.. it's a brick
    wall.. A shelf full of useless Mac software isn't much of an incentive to
    keep buying Mac hardware that only run's the offending brick wall OS -- for
    a number of reasons. Supporting OS 9.x avoids that problem. Dumping
    support creates it.

    *Just* upgrade.. *just* buy new.. yeah..? How'bout: Just send me your name,
    credit card number and date of expiration. :-)

    d.

    Don Romero Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???


    > From: [email]BreadWithSpamfractious.net[/email]
    > Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
    > Newsgroups:
    > comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system ,comp.sys.mac.apps
    > Date: 24 Jun 2003 15:01:43 -0400
    > Subject: Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???
    >
    > Mark Haase <nospam.please> writes:
    >
    >> unjustified expenses) to many. (Even at $800, the eMac might be a great
    >> deal, but its still too much for some families. Why else would Walmart
    >> sell a $200 Lindows machine??) You know its true, and I know its true,
    >
    > It's not really quite close to true. To make that $200 machine
    > usable - at all - requires at least the salvage of some other
    > hardware (possibly off of another machine that one is about to
    > dump).
    Yeah, but if you know what yer doing, it's trivial salvage that's already
    paid for.. otherwise yer right.

    I've bought two different 7600 systems including shipping for under $350,
    from that I've built one system with G3, two HDs (3G & 1G) and upgraded
    graphic card and a USB card.. PLUS two monitors (17" Sony & 15" Apple AV)
    and two printers (only one worth mentioning is the HP 870cse) Just to make
    clear, that included shipping of everything for both systems.

    Cheap Macs aren't hard to come by.. but "cheap new off the shelf" Mac is
    almost an oxymoron. Market is too small and Apple just doesn't have the
    heart, or guts, to make it happen. In many ways, not much has really
    changed between the iMac and the old 5/6/7 "system of the week" days.

    Hardware is only one issue, of course.. computers are nothing without
    software.. if OS X (or a subsequent Mac OS version) breaks some or all of
    the critical software I use, then that's not an upgrade path.. it's a brick
    wall.. A shelf full of useless Mac software isn't much of an incentive to
    keep buying Mac hardware that only run's the offending brick wall OS -- for
    a number of reasons. Supporting OS 9.x avoids that problem. Dumping
    support creates it.

    *Just* upgrade.. *just* buy new.. yeah..? How'bout: Just send me your name,
    credit card number and date of expiration. :-)

    d.

    Don Romero Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    > The thing is.. Apple HAS low-end machines that people are out here USING..
    > they just keep dropping support for 'em.. Worse -- once considered one of
    > MS's cardinal sins -- they've put out a new OS that essentially REQUIRES a
    > new generation of hardware.
    Which one? I'm a little worried that 10.3 will drop support for beige
    G3s, but 10.2 and earlier work on mine just fine. It certainly doesn't
    REQUIRE that I buy one of the newer computers. If 10.3 requires that I
    use a computer that was made more recently than five years ago, I'll
    keep using 10.2.x.

    Or by "new generation" did you mean anything made in the last 5-6 years?

    As it is, I'm still debating on whether to get a new dual G5 tower when
    10.3 comes out, or wait to see what the dual 3 GHz model costs in a
    year. My currently just over five-year-old Mac will certainly keep me
    going that long; I'm mainly interested in playing with making movies and
    iDVD; my general benchmark is that a new computer has to be ten times as
    fast as the computer it is replacing. It appears that Apple has reached
    that point now.

    Jerry

    --
    It Isn't Murder If They're Yankees
    [url]http://www.ItIsntMurder.com/[/url]
    Jerry Stratton Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    > The thing is.. Apple HAS low-end machines that people are out here USING..
    > they just keep dropping support for 'em.. Worse -- once considered one of
    > MS's cardinal sins -- they've put out a new OS that essentially REQUIRES a
    > new generation of hardware.
    Which one? I'm a little worried that 10.3 will drop support for beige
    G3s, but 10.2 and earlier work on mine just fine. It certainly doesn't
    REQUIRE that I buy one of the newer computers. If 10.3 requires that I
    use a computer that was made more recently than five years ago, I'll
    keep using 10.2.x.

    Or by "new generation" did you mean anything made in the last 5-6 years?

    As it is, I'm still debating on whether to get a new dual G5 tower when
    10.3 comes out, or wait to see what the dual 3 GHz model costs in a
    year. My currently just over five-year-old Mac will certainly keep me
    going that long; I'm mainly interested in playing with making movies and
    iDVD; my general benchmark is that a new computer has to be ten times as
    fast as the computer it is replacing. It appears that Apple has reached
    that point now.

    Jerry

    --
    It Isn't Murder If They're Yankees
    [url]http://www.ItIsntMurder.com/[/url]
    Jerry Stratton Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    > I've got $200 in a 7600/G3/256MB, 17" sony monitor and HP870cse printer.
    > Shipping included. Basically I'm the low end Apple blatantly doesn't give a
    > rodent's rear about.
    That machine was discontinued six years ago. That's the last time they
    saw any of your hardware money. Do you really blame them?
    Steven Fisher Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    > I've got $200 in a 7600/G3/256MB, 17" sony monitor and HP870cse printer.
    > Shipping included. Basically I'm the low end Apple blatantly doesn't give a
    > rodent's rear about.
    That machine was discontinued six years ago. That's the last time they
    saw any of your hardware money. Do you really blame them?
    Steven Fisher Guest

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    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

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    foo Guest
    Moderated Post

  18. Moderated Post

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

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  19. #19

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <sdfisher-6E5B1C.21042724062003shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
    Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net> wrote:
    > In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    > Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    >
    > > I've got $200 in a 7600/G3/256MB, 17" sony monitor and HP870cse printer.
    > > Shipping included. Basically I'm the low end Apple blatantly doesn't give a
    > > rodent's rear about.
    >
    > That machine was discontinued six years ago. That's the last time they
    > saw any of your hardware money. Do you really blame them?
    Right now I'm using a 7200/120 with an upgrade card fron Sonnet. My wife
    is using my son's old 7100/80 for her newletter and publicity activities.

    My 17 inch monitor was free from the recycling center. Her B/W portrait
    monitor is all she needs for her work. It's amazing how well "Personal
    Press 2.01" still works. It was a hellava lot cheaper than anything
    equivalent today. I bought portrait monitor driven by a Radius card when
    I got a LCII many moons ago; rest in peace LCII!

    My first Mac was a Plus at 8MHz, 1 M RAM and 20M HD. Wow, and to think
    that was all I really needed.

    Al

    --

    Reverse address to reply.
    Al Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: No IE 6 -- Is this Good or Bad???

    In article <sdfisher-6E5B1C.21042724062003shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
    Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net> wrote:
    > In article <BB1E3DF5.13B9E%don.romeroverizon.net>,
    > Don Romero <don.romeroverizon.net> wrote:
    >
    > > I've got $200 in a 7600/G3/256MB, 17" sony monitor and HP870cse printer.
    > > Shipping included. Basically I'm the low end Apple blatantly doesn't give a
    > > rodent's rear about.
    >
    > That machine was discontinued six years ago. That's the last time they
    > saw any of your hardware money. Do you really blame them?
    Right now I'm using a 7200/120 with an upgrade card fron Sonnet. My wife
    is using my son's old 7100/80 for her newletter and publicity activities.

    My 17 inch monitor was free from the recycling center. Her B/W portrait
    monitor is all she needs for her work. It's amazing how well "Personal
    Press 2.01" still works. It was a hellava lot cheaper than anything
    equivalent today. I bought portrait monitor driven by a Radius card when
    I got a LCII many moons ago; rest in peace LCII!

    My first Mac was a Plus at 8MHz, 1 M RAM and 20M HD. Wow, and to think
    that was all I really needed.

    Al

    --

    Reverse address to reply.
    Al Guest

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