no separate airbrush tool in photoshop CS. WHY!

[Wade_Zimmerman@adobeforums.com]

You know Ed you make a good point nothing will probably happen and it is probably not worth discussing, I mean for some of us.

Why waste time! Very good point!

[Pierre_Courtejoie@adobeforums.com]

I'll continue the discussion about the Preset Lists VS the Preset Manager in the Features Request section to avoid too much Off Topic in this interesting discussion...

[progress@adobeforums.com]

ann, the point behind it is that for several versions you could change the brushes very easily and bounce between a an airbush and a brush and change each independantly and dynamicly without ever thinging or dealing with anything else. I understand how your idea works to some extent for a few brushes, but its not going to go anyway to serve or help with perhaps the 200 variations of airbrush and brush that are used on a job....you want a palette with 200 presets in it do you? If the preset idea is such a good idea, why do we bother with a brush thats adjustable...? why not just have one big palette.

I realise that those last questions are a bit flippant, but i think they illustrate what we're driving at here. Presets are fine for somethings and a useful addition, but where a flaw in the UI has been made, they dont neccessarily patch it.

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

nsape - what do you mean a "brush response mimicing v6"? The only thing that changed was the UI and adding features. If you use the same features that were in Photoshop 6, it acts the same and is faster than version 6.

Most of the users I've talked to have improved their workflow (reduced their time, cut down on steps) using the new brush engine and presets. And yes, I've talked to people in many different industries. And our surveys cover all kinds of users, but I don't know how many thousands were surveyed.

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

I mean exactly that, the response of Photoshop 6 air brush. Why have opacity and flow for an airbrush as separate controls?
Whether or not the new options are great there are users such as those in this thread were more than pleased the way it was and find even if by ignorance the new airbrush tool just doesn't do things in a fashion that worked perfectly well , transparently in pre-7+CS versions.
Adding features is one thing, making it kludgey is another. If your thousands of users find this great than good on you. There are however users that find it not so great. I haven't talked to one professional retoucher on beauty picures yet that finds it an improvement yet that's not to say I have talked to thousands of people doing things other ways.
I can say for what I do it's not pratical and if you had a way of eliminating the two settings it would be an advantage for airbrushing in a preset brushes palette if you must.
If I'm missing the point entirely , please tell me how to do this, if there is a way already.

[Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com]

There is a very simple way to set Opacity or Flow:

Hit a number (say 5 for 50%, or 55 for 55%) to change the output for the brush that you are currently using (Brush for example).

Shift numeral (say Shift 5 for 50%, or Option 55 for 55%) to change the output for the other one -- the Airbrush in this case.

Option Shift P then toggles between Brush (which will use your Opacity setting) and Airbrush (which will use your Flow setting).

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

Yes those I know.
Or hang on maybe not.
In pre CS and 7 versions it was simply the numeric keypad to control global opacity and the Wacom tablet to fine tune the rest.
Hitting shift sequentially after the first flow control is where I see the dupllication that I didn't really want to do.
So are you saying that you can use the airbrush without opacity?
Still can't seem to get the Wacom to have a nice simple reponse without switching constantly between flow and opacity. Why do we have to have both for what was perfectly fine if not splendid before?
As I understand it the Airbrush check box is for run on continuous flow if the pointer is left in or on the same location.

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

nsape - because they control 2 different quantities, and are even more powerful when used together.

The Photoshop 7 and CS brush tool with the airbrush mode enabled is the same as the PS 6 airbrush, with the addition of an opacity control and the new brush variations.

This is just adding features, and making things a lot cleaner UI wise.

And since I'm not sure what you're missing - I can't tell you how to do what you're missing. But it's all there.

[Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com]

You HOLD Shift down while choosing a number to affect the Brush Opacity (or Airbrush Flow) in the tool that you are currently NOT using.

Without the "Shift" key -- you affect your current tool only.

[progress@adobeforums.com]

I can hear a lot of keytaps and a lot of grubling from the corner here...mutterings of it wasnt broken, why fix it are being mentioned as well as osx adobe and a few other expletives...think its a retouch job.

Anyway, one things for certain, the wacom boys are going to be a lot more dextrous...

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

Well adding so call features is one thing, obliging the use of dual controls for simple efficient operation is another.
I have and do see some uses for dual controls. When just airbrushing masks though the option to have just opacity and the same response as in Photoshop 6 was the right tool for the job.
There is always a wash of new features in each release. Overwhelming in fact. For some, the root of the program needs certain functions that would be best left alone at the point when they work flawlessly. However great the new features are I am really sad to see some changes that make my joy with Photoshop a lesser experience. You can tell me that Photoshop 6 airbrushing is the same but there are the others who hear are finding it not so. Most of us love so many of the new features, but not this one > the question of the new brushes. We'll have to have a toast to the good old days and let the new features set rage on!

[progress@adobeforums.com]

personally i dont see why it was needed at all...can anyone tell me what was gained apart from the loss of one icon...? seems you have to jump through the very hoops that it was designed to avoid in order to use it.

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

nsape - I still can't make sense of what you're trying to say.

Progress - there are no hoops, just a checkbox (or key command) that can be stored in a tool preset instead of a separate tool.

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

Okay Chris simply the new airbrush tools doesn't react at all like the new versions.
That is easy to understand. Please don't say they do because don't.

That is what others are saying here too. If you had to use air brushing all day long you'd know what we're trying to say. Obviously you don't understand as you've not had to use this new tool all day long or all night long.

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

Nsnape - The code for the airbrush tool in Photoshop 6, and the code for the paintbrush in Photoshop 7 with the airbrush option enabled are IDENTICAL.

They do behave the same.

I don't know what you're doing, or why you're so confused -- but the tools are the same.

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

Anne,
Yes that is what I am forced to do. Manipulate two controls when I need only one. If just changing opacity and leaving flow at 100% it's not at all the same response as opacity only in Photoshop 6. You have to constantly change the two> opacity and flow to have the output where you want it.

[Ann_Shelbourne@adobeforums.com]

I would have thought that being able to set the Opacity (so that the tool does not exceed the chosen opacity on each stroke), while having the Flow setting to control how quickly that opacity builds, would be extremely helpful and worth taking the time to get used to.

After all, a real-life airbrush had similar adjustments and took some effort to learn too?

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

Chris,
in Photoshop 6 the airbrush does respond differntly than 7 or CS. Even when running 6 under Classic it responds differently.
It's the same on all the machines I've seen and the reason for this thread is >there is a difference.
So code or not what we see is a difference in feel and we prefer the un feature set of the recent versions.
Yet as Wade said earlier, "a good point nothing will probably happen and it is probably not worth discussing, I mean for some of us".

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

nsnape - no, it responds IDENTICALLY, bit for bit, for all settings that were in Photoshop 6. There is no difference.

You are using the wrong controls or something -- because THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

[nsnape@adobeforums.com]

That must be an we're all doing it wrong. I can't rule out that the actual Wacom tablet has a bearing on it depending on the version of Photoshop but it does work differently from a user point of vue. So rather than shouting, listening may help, as you say there may be something that causes these differences. You're already conviced that the new brushes work so well for all the retouching you do and they respond exactly as before then all of us users who don't agree are then just using the wrong controls.
When I saw progress start an open discussion on how some of us feel about the new brushes (airbrush) I thought it'd be good to suggest how it has effected our workflow.
What I didn't expect is the unwillingness to explore possibilities such as Wade suggested or progress' notions that the old tool was working in a way that ultimately was better.
In the end I'm just thrilled to know the code is the same and I must be (or we) are all wrong becuse it's controls or something.
Well again, a good point nothing will probably happen and it is probably not worth discussing, I mean for some of us.