O.T. Vacation pictures

[Ray]

Thanks a lot Bob !

Ray

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Ray wrote:

> I'm confident a LCD can be calibrated, although I don't fully understand calibration, I believe you
> tell Windows what to display instead of calibrating the monitor itself to display what Windows
> sees... (a pure guess!)

Well in OSX, you can calibrate an LCD panel, but not quite as
extensively as CRTs. Just FYI. You can adjust gamma and I think
something else (colour tone, I think, but maybe I'm dreaming), but
that's it. You can also set it up to use different colour profiles
(although I've always left mine to Apple's default). The one thing I
remember for sure that you *can't* do is adjust the contrast.

I have placed my LCD panel beside my husband's CRT, and honestly, the
only difference I noticed was with white, and I think that this was
because I was able to adjust the contrast on his machine but not mine (I
ran the profiler on both machines, just for fun, and actually the CRT
was hooked up to my machine - the thing was running two displays). His
screen produced a purer white than mine. That was the only difference
that I could spot. I'm using a powerbook, which has a pretty high
quality LCD panel in it.

I, too, must stay away from CRTs due to eye fatigue problems.

I have noticed that my prints match my screen display as close as I can
ever expect given my cheap printer. But I'm no pro.

Vicky

[Chuck Snyder]

Ray and Vicki: What is it about CRT's that causes more eye fatigue than an
LCD? Is it the refresh scanning that goes on with a CRT?

Chuck

[imacgirl]

Chuck,

Here's <http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20020114/lcd-03.html> a comparison of LCD vs CRT.

:-)

Barb

[Chuck Snyder]

Barb, thanks!!

:-)

Chuck

[Grant Dixon]

Barb

Good one and does help to make an educated decision.

Grant

[Barbara Brundage]

Hi, Vicky. White point is the other setting you can adjust with X's display calibrator, and depending on the monitor you can fake adjusting the phosphors with one of the hardware/software combo calibration devices.

I also wouldn't want another CRT after this monitor, no matter how accurate they may be. It really is much easier to look at all day. And with gamma toggle you can change the profile to a different one right from the finder menubar.

[Ray]

> Ray and Vicki: What is it about CRT's that causes more eye fatigue than an

> LCD? Is it the refresh scanning that goes on with a CRT?

Chuck, at first I thought it was the refresh rate, but after cranking it up to 100Mhz, I still had
problem with my eyes (tears, blood vessels showing up, itching, etc.) I really can't tell how a CRT
is affecting my eyes, I just know it does. Strangely, this doesn't not happen when I watch TV. I
first began to realize that when I worked on the laptop, all my symptoms would disapear. So I made
the connection ;)

[JodiFrye]

Ray, another thought; when you are on your laptop you are in a better lit area ? The problem with computers is that we tend to have them in a less lit room and like me...the only light I see is the monitor. Hence the saying ; don't watch TV in the dark 'cause it will ruin your eyes ! '...that is a possible myth however I am guilty of sitting in my cave in the dark at night with only the monitor to light the room. My eyes do get sore in the evening and into the night from this habit. Otherwise I am fine during the day with my CRT....as long as it's not rainy and gloomy out. I just hate indoor lighting......prefer lots of windows...but my computer cave only has 1 . ;(

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Chuck Snyder wrote:

> Ray and Vicki: What is it about CRT's that causes more eye fatigue than an
> LCD? Is it the refresh scanning that goes on with a CRT?
>
> Chuck
>
>

I honestly have no idea. I think it's the refresh rate, coupled with
brightness and contrast. It doesn't matter how high you put the refresh
rate - it's always slightly noticeable as a slight flicker, and I think
this flicker is made noticeable by how much brighter CRT screens are,
especially if you have the contrast set properly. Also, I find that I
don't blink very often if I use a CRT. I still don't blink normally
with an LCD panel, but it's nowhere near as bad. I have one problem
with both, though, and that's that my eyes sort of lock in focus on
them. Add a really low rate of blinking, though, and things get really
bad. I remember when I used to work as a programmer, if I looked up
from my screen, it would sometimes take me a good minute to be able to
focus on anything. I have found that the lower contrast and slightly
lower brightness of an LCD panel have made a great positive difference
for me. I still can't stare at one for hours, but I can certainly go
for much longer than I can with a CRT.

I think part of the thing here is that people who are into graphics do a
lot more than just stare at their computer screens. They have to look
at their printouts, they have to look at colour swatches, they have to
go out and actually shoot some film (what do people say when they use
digital cameras now? I'm going to go out and shoot my memory card?),
and whatever else pros do. Programmers, OTOH, just stare at the screen
all the time. ;-) Sometimes we get pulled away for meetings and such,
but we really hate those things and so try to stay hidden in our offices
as much as possible. ;-) At least, that's what I was like. I got out
of that business, though, as I eventually discovered that it just wasn't
for me. Unfortunately, I have newfound eye problems as a souvenir.

Vicky

P.S.
My eyes have a predisposition to this problem, unfortunately, so things
are worse for me than others. Maybe Ray has the same problem. When I
was a kid, I used to find that if I spent hours reading a book, it would
take me quite a long time to be able to focus on anything far away after
that.

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Hey that was interesting! Looks like they claim that LCDs are actually
*brighter* (did I understand that part correctly)? Well then maybe for
me it's entirely a flicker issue (I noted that they said that LCDs had
no flicker at all but that CRTs had some flicker, but only below 85Hz,
but I swear I can see flicker at any rate). And perhaps also a contrast
thing. There seemed to be a pretty big difference between the two types
of screens when it comes to contrast.

[Barbara Brundage]

Looks like they claim that LCDs are actually *brighter*





Yeah, Vicky, I was surprised that you found your CRT brighter. The brightness is one of the big selling points for LCDs. I find that even a well-calibrated CRT looks kind of dingy since I've gotten used to the LCD.

[Ray]

Thanks for the tips Jodi but I've really tried everything before I switched to the LCD. My CRT was
only 18 months old. It wasn't really time to switch, believe me :)

Well lit, under lit, over lit, nothing did it. My eyes getting worse and worse as days went by.
Untill I got the LCD. Now, I could work for undending days without any eye problems. For me, LCD
was a savior. You know how much I like graphics... having to stop was killing me.

I think I may have located a Montreal dealer carrying the Spyder + Photocal... I'll have a look and
see if it's worth the 300$. If so, then I'll buy it.

Ray

[Leen Koper]

ray, I think it really is worth every penny/cent. I was really amazed when I calibrated my monitor the first time. My screen was way too bright and contrasty, although I thought it to be close to what it should be. First I supposed I made a mistake and recalibrated but it showed as "dull" as the first time. Soon I got used to it and suddenly my prints turned out much brighter than ever before......

Leen

[Chuck Snyder]

Ray, sounds like a reasonable price for such an important gadget; please let
us know if you get one and start using it. Thanks, Leen, for the tip!

[Ray]

I will check it on Saturday. If the price is right, I'll get back home with it. Sometimes, online
prices and store prices don't actually match!

Ray

[Ray]

It's funny Leen because that's exactly my problem. On screen, all is wonderfully colored. On
printed, everything is like -2 on the saturation scale (from 0 to -5). So I need to boost it much,
but can never get the same result exactly.

Ray

[Leen Koper]

Hi Ray,

The standard setting for screens is usually too bright and contrasty.
If you are to buy a monitor and come to a store, you will usually always pick the one with the brightest and most saturated (why not saturatetest? Sounds much funnier, probably the funniest) colours. Nobody will pick the one with the dull screen...

Leen