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Old Mac SE sad Mac error - Mac Applications & Software

An Mac SE of mine shows the following sad Mac error: 0000000F 0000000A According to the MacsBug docs, it means a Line F error. I am thinking about taking it apart and use its components for another SE. Can someone tell me which component(s) I should not use, if any? Thanks, Mark -- eHUG coordinator http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch http://www.ehug.info Contribute to HyperCardParis http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch/contr.html...

  1. #1

    Default Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    An Mac SE of mine shows the following sad Mac error:

    0000000F
    0000000A

    According to the MacsBug docs, it means a Line F error.
    I am thinking about taking it apart and use its components for
    another SE. Can someone tell me which component(s) I should not
    use, if any?

    Thanks,

    Mark

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch/contr.html
    Mark Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Mark Schonewille <org> writes: 

    Your Mac may not be as dead as you think.

    I looked up these codes in my copy of "The Dead Mac Scrolls" (a
    wonderfully useful book if you can get a copy.) They don't describe
    this code for the Mac SE, but they do talk about the equivalent code
    for a Mac Plus:

    Symptoms: On startup, the computer bongs and you almost get
    to the desktop, but then you get a sad Mac with errpr cpde
    0F000A.

    Typical history: The Macintosh Plus (or 512Ke with SCSI
    upgrade) is connected to an external HD 20SC or other hard
    drive. If you disconnect the hard drive and boot from a
    floppy, it works OK.

    Probable diagnosis: The hard drive has a bad partition map

    Solution: Boot the computer from a floppy disk, wait for the
    desktop to appear and then turn on the drive. Use
    third-party SCSI formatting software to repair the partition
    map (this won't always work.)

    If your SE has an external hard drive, try the same thing.

    If your hard drive is internal, see if booting a floppy will get you
    to the desktop anyway, then try a third-party format utility. I've
    had good luck with Anubis, by CharisMac:

    http://www.charismac.com/Products/Anubis/index.html

    If you can't boot a floppy, open the case and disconnect the hard
    drive. (I assume you can safely do this, since you're talking about
    taking it apart for parts.) Then try booting a floppy. If that
    works, all you have to do is replace the hard drive.

    Anything with a 50-pin SCSI connector should work, although versions
    of MacOS compatible with an SE will limit you to 2G per disk partition
    - so you'll end up with a lot of drive icons if you use any relatively
    modern drive. The Apple disk utilities won't format a third-party
    SCSI drive, but third-party programs (like Anubis) will.

    Other third-party disk formatting programs I have used include LaCie's
    Silverlining:
    http://www.mklinc.com/english/LaciePages/LacieByDon/silverlining.htm

    and FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit:
    http://www.fwb.com/html/hard_disk_toolkit.html

    My experience with all three of these programs is based on old
    versions. I haven't used the current versions of any of these.

    Current versions of Anubis and Silverlining still claim to be
    compatible with everything from a Plus and up.

    The current version of Hard Disk Toolkit says it requires a Power
    Macintosh, so it's of no use to you.

    Good luck.

    -- David
    David Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Thanks for the adice, David. I suspected that it is the hard
    disk and I am going to remove it to see whether it helps.

    Best regards,

    Mark


    "David C." wrote:
     

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    mailto:org
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
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    Mark Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    In article <org>, Mark Schonewille <org> writes: 

    It is well likely that your Mac is still all right. It might be a problem with
    the harddisk or an empty battery. In order to test the latter, remove the
    battery, unplug the computer from the power, then reconnect it and boot with a
    paramter reset and without battery.

    Regards,
    Christoph Gartmann

    --
    Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452
    Immunbiologie
    Postfach 1169 Internet: mpg.de
    D-79011 Freiburg, Germany
    http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html
    Christoph Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    In article <org>, Mark Schonewille
    <org> wrote:
     

    Black&Bleu describes this error (specifically on an SE) as likely to be
    a software error, usually resulting from a corrupted systm file. It
    notes hard disk and bad RAM as less likely causes.

    Cathy

    --
    "there's a dance or two in the old dame yet." - mehitabel

    C.Stevenson, M.D.
    net
    Cathy Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Hi Christoph, David, Cathy,

    It appeared to be the floppy disk drive. I don't know whether I
    should find a broken SE with a good drive. Perhaps, there is
    something that prevents the SE from accessing floppy drives at
    all. What do you think is more likely, that only the drive is
    broken or that something else is wrong?

    Thanks,

    Mark


    Christoph Gartmann wrote: 
    >
    > It is well likely that your Mac is still all right. It might be a problem with
    > the harddisk or an empty battery. In order to test the latter, remove the
    > battery, unplug the computer from the power, then reconnect it and boot with a
    > paramter reset and without battery.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Christoph Gartmann[/ref]

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    mailto:org
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch/contr.html
    Mark Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Hi Christoph, David, Cathy,

    Thank you all for your advice. It appeared to be the floppy disk drive.

    I think that this disk drive has three heads, one to read 400K
    disks, one to read the other 400K to make it 800, and since it
    is a Super Drive ther is also a DOS head (maybe two of them?). I
    am able to read and write 400K disks, but no 800K and no DOS
    disks.

    Probably, I will try to clean the drive. I am not sure that I
    can still get disks to clean drives with. If this doesn't work,
    I don't what to do yet.

    I'd appreciate any suggestions while I am trying to repair it.

    Best regards,

    Mark


    Christoph Gartmann wrote: 
    >
    > It is well likely that your Mac is still all right. It might be a problem with
    > the harddisk or an empty battery. In order to test the latter, remove the
    > battery, unplug the computer from the power, then reconnect it and boot with a
    > paramter reset and without battery.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Christoph Gartmann[/ref]

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch/contr.html
    Mark Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Mark Schonewille <org> wrote: 
     
     
     

    Just one set of heads, the floppy controller switches the bias and drive
    speed as necessary for writing the different disk formats. There are a
    couple possibilities why it does not work on other than 400 and 800 K
    disks. One, that someone has replaced the Superdrive floppy with the
    older 400/800 K drive. That can read DOS 720 K floppies if the right
    software is loaded. But will not touch 1.4 mac or DOS floppies. Second
    that dust has built up in the floppy drive. The air flow for a Mac SE
    has part of the air coming in through the floppy slot, so dust and lint
    builds up in the drive. This dries out the lubricant, and can gum up
    the microswitches that read the density and write protect holes on the
    floppy disk. If this is the case, then just running a cleaning floppy
    through the drive will not be enough. You will need to take the drive
    out and clean off the aculated dust from the sliding and pivoting
    points of the drive. Also clean off the sensor switches in the front of
    the drive. Those might take a small drop of switch cleaner to free up.
    Then a sparing amount of fresh lubricant can be put on the moving parts
    of the drive. You can also clean the drive heads with some isopropyl
    alcohol on a swab. Don't put too much pressure on the head and do not
    take apart the heads, you will a have near impossible task of realigning
    them. In my experience, this cleaning will bring back better than 90%
    of the floppy drives to working correctly.

    Joe Heimann

    P.S. If you only find one sensor that matches up with write protect
    hole on a floppy, then you have one of the 400/800 K drives. Knowing
    what the part number of the drive is will confirm that. The second
    sensor if stuck down will detect all floppies as DD instead of HD.
     
     
     

     
    >>
    >> It is well likely that your Mac is still all right. It might be a problem with
    >> the harddisk or an empty battery. In order to test the latter, remove the
    >> battery, unplug the computer from the power, then reconnect it and boot with a
    >> paramter reset and without battery.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Christoph Gartmann[/ref][/ref]
     
     
     
    Joe Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Hello Joe,

    Joe Heimann wrote:
     

    It only works with 400K disks, not with 800K and DOS disks.
     

    I am 100% sure that the original floppy drive is still there. I
    have always kept an eye on it, even though I can call it mine
    for only 10 years now.
     

    What must this lubricant be?
     

    Okay, I'll try to clean it and then we'll see what happend.

    Btw, after 10 years, the clock is still correct to the second.
    It's a good machine.

    Mark

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
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    Mark Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Mark Schonewille <org> wrote: 
     
     [/ref]
     

    Oh, I misunderstood your original post. If it only works with 400 K,
    then something is keeping one of the pair of heads for top and bottom
    of the disk from working. The head might be too dirty or its flex
    cable is not fully seated or contacts have corroded. Its been a few
    years since I was inside one of these floppy drives, so I don't recall
    if the flex cable is easily accessed to reseat it.
     [/ref]
     

    Okay, that decreases the chance the drive was exchanged by quite a
    bit. Did it read and write the other formats okay originally? Can't
    get back to your original post to see if you had said that already.
     [/ref]
     

    There is a thin white grease used for lubing electronic components
    mechanical parts. Don't have a tube of it at the moment to check what
    they call it, but any electronics supplier should have it. It is made
    to not migrate from the points it is used on, so it won't eventually
    contaminate the electrical parts such as the heads or switch contacts.
     [/ref]
     
     
     

    Yeah, they were made well. The only part that has needed repair on the
    SE I bought in '90 was to the og board. But that is now with the
    ex-wife. As for the drive, here I now of a few sources where I can get
    a new or refurbished replacement floppy drive for $5-10. But that may
    not be of much use to you where you are.

    Good luck

    Joe Heimann

    Joe Guest

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    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for the good advice, again.

    Joe Heimann wrote:
     

    I tried a little more with this drive and now it reads and
    formats 400K disks and 720K DOS disks. Only 800K is still
    impossible.
     
     
    >
    > There is a thin white grease used for lubing electronic components
    > mechanical parts. Don't have a tube of it at the moment to check what
    > they call it, but any electronics supplier should have it. It is made
    > to not migrate from the points it is used on, so it won't eventually
    > contaminate the electrical parts such as the heads or switch contacts.[/ref]

    Is this the same white stuff that I tend to wipe away from my
    keyboards? (It prevents me from cleaning the keyboard by just
    turning it around and tapping on the back side.)
     

    I'm thinking about getting a broken SE with a good floppy drive.
    They are available here, every now and then.

    Mark

    --

    eHUG coordinator
    mailto:org
    http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
    http://www.ehug.info

    Contribute to HyperCardParis
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    Mark Guest

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    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Old Mac SE sad Mac error

    Mark Schonewille <org> writes: 

    But without the Superdrive-compatible ROM, MacOS will treat it as an
    800K drive. I have personal experience with this.

    But the base SE ROM should definitely support the 800K format. As
    far as I know, the 400K drives only shipped with the 128, 512 and
    XL. (The 512e had an 800K drive.)

    -- David
    David Guest

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