Option-f in folder name

[Sally Shears]

In OS 9, I used to use option-f in a folder name... It created a nice
italic f as a short-hand for "folder"

For example pix option-f would be "Pix Folder"

Warning... If you have any folders with option-f in the name, then in OS X
you cannot navigate to these folders or anything in them from termminal.

This may apply to other special characters in file/folder names.

-- Sally
--

Sally Shears (a.k.a. "Molly")
[email]sshears@theWorld.com[/email] -or- [email]Sally@Shears.org[/email]
[url]http://theWorld.com/~sshears[/url]

[Steve W. Jackson]

In article <bevp7d$agv$1@pcls4.std.com>,
Sally Shears <sshears@theWorld.com> wrote:

:> In OS 9, I used to use option-f in a folder name... It created a nice
:> italic f as a short-hand for "folder"
:>
:> For example pix option-f would be "Pix Folder"
:>
:> Warning... If you have any folders with option-f in the name, then in OS X
:> you cannot navigate to these folders or anything in them from termminal.
:>
:> This may apply to other special characters in file/folder names.
:>
:> -- Sally

In Terminal, you simply have to know the correct escape sequence in
order to escape that character or others you might have used. Or the
right tricks to use. :-)

One thing you shouldn't forget is that in Terminal you can get automatic
file/folder name completion in bash and (I believe) tcsh. In bash, I
simply typed "cd Test" and then a tab, and it automatically provided the
escape characters I needed. The completed name ends up being something
like this: Test\ \306\222

And the other trick you can often use is to drag the folder into your
Terminal window from the Finder. Simply type "cd " (note the space),
then drag the folder onto Terminal, and it provides the complete path to
the folder, including the escapes needed. Unfortunately, it seems that
this particular character prevents that one from working -- so I guess
it's back to the folder name completion in the bash shell.

= Steve =
--
Steve W. Jackson
Montgomery, Alabama

[Phil Stripling]

Tom Harrington <tph@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> writes:

>
> % mkdir "Test Ÿ"
> % cd "Test Ÿ"
> % pwd
> /Users/tph/Test Ÿ
> % cd ..
> % rmdir "Test Ÿ"
>
> What happens when you try to use such a folder?

I use the option-f character frequently. I am sorry to say that in emacs,
when I use dired, the directories show, but opening them makes emacs think
it's a new file. None of the contents of the directories show. Bummer.

--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
[url]http://www.PhilipStripling.com/[/url] | my domain is read daily.

[Emily Jackson]

In article <stevewjackson-F9365E.22021914072003@corp.supernews.com>,
Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:

> One thing you shouldn't forget is that in Terminal you can get automatic
> file/folder name completion in bash and (I believe) tcsh. In bash, I
> simply typed "cd Test" and then a tab, and it automatically provided the
> escape characters I needed. The completed name ends up being something
> like this: Test\ \306\222

For full compatibility with 8-bit characters (if you're using tcsh or
bash), you have to have "Escape 8-bit char with Ctrl-V" turned on in
Window Settings-->Emulation and "Use option key as meta key" turned
off; for good measure, Unicode should be turned on (in Character Set
Encoding). This allows you to directly type 8-bit characters at the
command line and drag items containing such characters in their names
into the Terminal window. (See
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107258>.)

Emily

--
"If it seem slow, wait for it; it will surely come, it will not delay."
Emily Jackson
E-mail address altered; reply to m5comp AT fastmail DOT fm
<http://home.hiwaay.net/~emilyj/missjackson.html>

[Steve W. Jackson]

In article
<150720030700548312%m5comp@fastmail-REMOVE_THIS-.fm.invalid>,
Emily Jackson <m5comp@fastmail-REMOVE_THIS-.fm.invalid> wrote:

:> In article <stevewjackson-F9365E.22021914072003@corp.supernews.com>,
:> Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:
:>
:> > One thing you shouldn't forget is that in Terminal you can get automatic
:> > file/folder name completion in bash and (I believe) tcsh. In bash, I
:> > simply typed "cd Test" and then a tab, and it automatically provided the
:> > escape characters I needed. The completed name ends up being something
:> > like this: Test\ \306\222
:>
:> For full compatibility with 8-bit characters (if you're using tcsh or
:> bash), you have to have "Escape 8-bit char with Ctrl-V" turned on in
:> Window Settings-->Emulation and "Use option key as meta key" turned
:> off; for good measure, Unicode should be turned on (in Character Set
:> Encoding). This allows you to directly type 8-bit characters at the
:> command line and drag items containing such characters in their names
:> into the Terminal window. (See
:> <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107258>.)
:>
:> Emily

Well darn...if you already knew that, why'd you say you couldn't use
them? :-) Actually, I hadn't paid much attention before your post, but
now I've made those settings in Terminal just in case...

Thanks,
= Steve =
--
Steve W. Jackson
Montgomery, Alabama

[Sally Shears]

Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:
: In article <bevp7d$agv$1@pcls4.std.com>,
: Sally Shears <sshears@theWorld.com> wrote:

: :> Warning... If you have any folders with option-f in the name, then in OS X
: :> you cannot navigate to these folders or anything in them from termminal.

: In Terminal, you simply have to know the correct escape sequence in
: order to escape that character or others you might have used. Or the
: right tricks to use. :-)

: One thing you shouldn't forget is that in Terminal you can get automatic
: file/folder name completion in bash and (I believe) tcsh. In bash, I
: simply typed "cd Test" and then a tab, and it automatically provided the
: escape characters I needed. The completed name ends up being something
: like this: Test\ \306\222

My folder is named test option-f.

Yes, tab completion in tsch does give the name test\ \306\222/ -- thanks
for this tip. What are characters 306 and 222?

: And the other trick you can often use is to drag the folder into your
: Terminal window from the Finder.

This is usually a good trick, but it does NOT work with option-f in the
file name. Just does not. It gives /Users/name/Documents/test\ which does
not work.

Also, ls -l test* does NOT work. However, ls * gives a complete list
including the troublesome folder, but shows it as

test ??

-- Sally
--

Sally Shears (a.k.a. "Molly")
[email]sshears@theWorld.com[/email] -or- [email]Sally@Shears.org[/email]
[url]http://theWorld.com/~sshears[/url]

[Sally Shears]

Emily Jackson <m5comp@fastmail-remove_this-.fm.invalid> wrote:
: In article <stevewjackson-F9365E.22021914072003@corp.supernews.com>,
: Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:

:> One thing you shouldn't forget is that in Terminal you can get automatic
:> file/folder name completion in bash and (I believe) tcsh. In bash, I
:> simply typed "cd Test" and then a tab, and it automatically provided the
:> escape characters I needed. The completed name ends up being something
:> like this: Test\ \306\222

: For full compatibility with 8-bit characters (if you're using tcsh or
: bash), you have to have "Escape 8-bit char with Ctrl-V" turned on in
: Window Settings-->Emulation and "Use option key as meta key" turned
: off; for good measure, Unicode should be turned on (in Character Set
: Encoding). This allows you to directly type 8-bit characters at the
: command line and drag items containing such characters in their names
: into the Terminal window. (See
: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107258>.)

Thanks, Emily. That's interesting. Are there any downsides to turning on
this feature? I wonder why Apple leaves it off as the default?

I've decided to get rid of option-f file/folder names as a safer route.

-- Sally
--

Sally Shears (a.k.a. "Molly")
[email]sshears@theWorld.com[/email] -or- [email]Sally@Shears.org[/email]
[url]http://theWorld.com/~sshears[/url]

[Sally Shears]

Tom Harrington <tph@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:
: In article <bevp7d$agv$1@pcls4.std.com>,
: Sally Shears <sshears@theWorld.com> wrote:

:> In OS 9, I used to use option-f in a folder name... It created a nice
:> italic f as a short-hand for "folder"
:>
:> For example pix option-f would be "Pix Folder"
:>
:> Warning... If you have any folders with option-f in the name, then in OS X
:> you cannot navigate to these folders or anything in them from termminal.

: That's not true:

[Suggestion to try pwd]

: What happens when you try to use such a folder?

Tom, thanks for the response.

My folder is test option-f. Looks like "test f" in the finder display,
with an italic f.

The only way I can navigate to it is tab-completion in tcsh.

When I do so, the output of pwd looks just like Finder listing:

/Users/rkarash/Documents/atest f

The last character looks like an italic f... My newsreader won't let me
include that character in this posting. Your posting with that character
looks like ? to my reader.

-- Sally
--

Sally Shears (a.k.a. "Molly")
[email]sshears@theWorld.com[/email] -or- [email]Sally@Shears.org[/email]
[url]http://theWorld.com/~sshears[/url]

[Anno Siegel]

Sally Shears <sshears@theWorld.com> wrote in comp.sys.mac.system:

> Steve W. Jackson <stevewjackson@charter.net> wrote:
> : In article <bevp7d$agv$1@pcls4.std.com>,
> : Sally Shears <sshears@theWorld.com> wrote:

[snip some history]

> Yes, tab completion in tsch does give the name test\ \306\222/ -- thanks
> for this tip. What are characters 306 and 222?

Well, they are characters number 198 and 146 in octal notation. Since
that is outside the ASCII range, there is no universally agreed-upon
meaning of the individual characters, but together they print the
slanted "f".

> : And the other trick you can often use is to drag the folder into your
> : Terminal window from the Finder.
>
> This is usually a good trick, but it does NOT work with option-f in the
> file name. Just does not. It gives /Users/name/Documents/test\ which does
> not work.

Ah, but it does with the Terminal defaults set as described. Start up
a new terminal using the defaults (take care to *make* them defaults
first). Then drag-and-drop from Finder gives you the same result as
file name completion in the shell. It may be enough to open a new
terminal window (from an already running terminal), I didn't try.

> Also, ls -l test* does NOT work.

I think it does, it just doesn't print anything because your test folder
is probably empty. Try "ls -la test*".

> However, ls * gives a complete list
> including the troublesome folder, but shows it as
>
> test ??

Some variants of the "ls" command have an option to force escape
representation of non-printable characters, but darwin's doesn't.
You can make it print the literal slanted "f" with the -v (verbatim)
option, but that doesn't copy-paste very well.

Anno

[Fred Moore]

As long as we're discussing option-f, I'm trying to find some characters I
can use to prefix a file or folder to force it to the bottom of an
alphabetical list. Used to be able to use the bullet (option-8). That
doesn't work anymore.

So far I've only found the script f Sally is talking about (option-f) and
the omega chatacter (option-z). BUT, thanks to Saly's posts, I presume
these will give me trouble in the terminal. Anyone know un-optioned characters
which will force a name to the end of a list?

tia,

--Fred

[Anno Siegel]

Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote in comp.sys.mac.system:

> As long as we're discussing option-f, I'm trying to find some characters I
> can use to prefix a file or folder to force it to the bottom of an
> alphabetical list. Used to be able to use the bullet (option-8). That
> doesn't work anymore.
>
> So far I've only found the script f Sally is talking about (option-f) and
> the omega chatacter (option-z). BUT, thanks to Saly's posts, I presume
> these will give me trouble in the terminal. Anyone know un-optioned characters
> which will force a name to the end of a list?

The tilde "~" is the highest printable ASCII character (126). Other high
ones (higher than "z") are "{" (123), "|" (124), and "}" (125). Any
of these should do.

Anno

[Fred Moore]

Anno Siegel (anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de) wrote:
: Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote in comp.sys.mac.system:
: > As long as we're discussing option-f, I'm trying to find some characters I
: > can use to prefix a file or folder to force it to the bottom of an
: > alphabetical list. Used to be able to use the bullet (option-8). That
: > doesn't work anymore.
: >
: > So far I've only found the script f Sally is talking about (option-f) and
: > the omega chatacter (option-z). BUT, thanks to Saly's posts, I presume
: > these will give me trouble in the terminal. Anyone know un-optioned characters
: > which will force a name to the end of a list?

: The tilde "~" is the highest printable ASCII character (126). Other high
: ones (higher than "z") are "{" (123), "|" (124), and "}" (125). Any
: of these should do.

Ah, but they don't! At least in the 10.2.6. that I'm running. If I create
a test folder, create test folders within it, view as list, then prefix
the first one with any of the characters you mention, the order remains
unchanged. OS X sorts on unicode not ASCII from what I have read, but I
can't figure out the exact scheme. It doesn't seem to be by unicode number
(if you look at the character pallet). So I'm still stumped as to finding
non-optioned characters which will force an item to the bottom of a list.

Thanks for replying.

--Fred

[Simon Slavin]

In article <bfj1kk$qqj$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>,
[email]anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de[/email] (Anno Siegel) wrote:

>The tilde "~" is the highest printable ASCII character (126).

Don't use tildes in filenames under OS X. If the filename ever
gets handled as a URL there's a chance that the tilde will be
interpreted as referring to your home directory.