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OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9 - Mac Applications & Software

HIGHEST WARNING !!! OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9 OSX.2.6 sets os9 deadly privileges on every harddisk and every harddiskvolume ever connected to an osx 10.2.6 system that cannot be removed. What happens is the harddisk sectors like - the driver descriptor index, - the partition index, - the volume header block, and - the alternative header block, - the catalog B-tree are all set to lock ! So they can not be overwritten or altered by anything else then the osx admin system. So even when you take out the harddrive format it under DOS, form it ...

  1. #1

    Default OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    HIGHEST WARNING !!! OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    OSX.2.6 sets os9 deadly privileges on every harddisk and every
    harddiskvolume ever connected to an osx 10.2.6 system that cannot be
    removed.

    What happens is the harddisk sectors like
    - the driver descriptor index,
    - the partition index,
    - the volume header block, and
    - the alternative header block,
    - the catalog B-tree
    are all set to lock !

    So they can not be overwritten or altered by anything else then the osx
    admin system. So even when you take out the harddrive format it under
    DOS, form it into an NTFS volume will not take these permissions away
    !!! and they are really nasty to destinguish.

    The result however is that when the system is also being used under os-9
    this system will eventually fail completely within a timespan of weeks
    or months. Depending of the intensity of the use. You will see
    disapearing disks, you mightlose valuable data and probeably to avoid
    further problems you will stop using OS9 (Classic).

    Steve Jobs if you're out there this is a brilliant plan to lose all the
    os9 users. If it's not your fault get it together and make shure this
    never
    happens again because it is absolutely Apple unworthy !!!

    However i found a painfull elaborate way of desinfecting your systems.

    no1. make shure you
    - Backup all the data you can.
    - 2 harddrives in your computer.
    - 1st harddrive (Master) 2nd drive (Slave) [NO Cable Select Setting]
    - Diskwarrior 2.1 under os9.x
    - Norton 5 or 6 on your os9 disk. (Do not use to make changes!!! - it's
    just a probe)
    - A booteable os9.x cd-rom systemdisk
    - A lot of time - 3 hours minimum.
    - Disks are not bigger then 120Gb!!!

    no2.
    - Startup under os9.x or if nothing starts from the booteable system
    cd-rom.
    - If you see the osx volume then erase/format the volume Erase the disk
    if you can. You also can use the "Drive Setup" Utility.
    (If your disk is already in big trouble and you cannot see your disk try
    shutting down the machine for several hours, change the dipswitches from

    'cable setting' to 'master' and 'slave' until the drives can be mounted
    and seen on the desktop) or seen under the 'Drive Setup' Utility from
    your
    Utility's folder

    By formatting the os-x 10.2.6 volume you enable that the permissions set
    on your harddrives can be undone.

    no3.
    To get rid of all the unwanted osx permissions you must restart with
    extensions off (press Shift at startup).
    Now you have to proces volume by volume and harddrive by harddrive with
    Diskwarrior 2.1 (Diskwarrior 3.1 will not work since it works under osx
    10.2.6)This utility will not proces the startupdisk and the disk it has
    started from. This is why you need 2 diskdrives.

    At the end you can check the result with Norton 6 or Norton 5. BUT
    If Norton finds serious problems make shure not to correct them with
    Norton !!! Because Norton is not able to undo the permissions set by osx

    10.2.6 and will result in total diskloss. In fact it is adviseable to
    reformat all drives because otherwise it will be hard to distinguish
    real problems from the problems caused by the permissions from osx. This
    all means that you are about to copy a lot of data from one to another
    drive. The permisions will not be transfered by copying data under os9.

    no4.
    When you need to work with osx there are two alternatives:
    - Your machine has to work with osx 10.2.6. only. You have to abandon
    the os9 boot and be verry carefull what external drives come in contact
    with this system. OR
    - You have to work with version 10.2.2 This one will only corrupt the
    permissions on the volume it is put on. Other volumes will stay intact.
    They still can be treated with Disc Warrior and Norton 5 or 6.

    It is a shame that software like Final Cut 4 need OSx 10.2.6 to work and
    will not colaborate succesfull with os9 applications.

    NOT SOLVED:
    However there is no remedy for Diskdrives bigger then 120Gb !!!
    This is a real problem for owners of big Lacie etc Firewire disks
    because all these drives are corrupted by one contact with a os-x 10.2.6
    system.
    Anyone who has the method to resolve these (permissions) problem is
    welcome to let us know.


    Finally:
    To be able to make this article these facts have been encountered on
    more then 8 different machines. The procedure to get rid of the problem
    was
    repeated on every machine with the same succes. Most machines are in the
    range of G4-400 - G4-1250DP.
    The drives where 40Gb- 120Gb IBM's, 80-200Gb WD Caviar's and 1 120Gb
    Maxtor.
    The utility that Apple introduced to prevent disappearing Harddisks
    under osx "Hard Drive Update 1" did not have any effect on any of these
    drives.
    The OSX 10.2.6 install was done by several 10.2.x installers with
    upgrades to 10.2.6 via the web.
    and a brandnew OSX 10.2.6 dvd standalone installer.
    All with the same devious results.



    Charlie Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    Charlie wrote: 

    "deadly privileges"?

    For some reason this phrase strikes me as funny. It's a bit Star Trek,
    as in:

    'escalate privileges to "Deadly", Mr. Spock'

    'Aye, Captain. Privileges escalated to "Deadly"'

    Heh.

    clvrmnky Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <nl>, Charlie <nl>
    wrote:
     

    Should I do this even though none of my systems are infected?

    --
    Rodger
    Rodger Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <nl>, Charlie wrote: 

    Did anyone actually believe any of that? Deadly privileges?!!

    Ian Gregory
    Systems and Applications Manager
    Learning and Information Services
    University of Hertfordshire
    Ian Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <bOK9b.71190$uunet.ca>,
    clvrmnky <com.invalid> wrote:
     

    Set phasers to "Enough"

    --
    Never play strip tarot.
    Michelle Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    You've been warned !!!

    clvrmnky wrote:
     
    >
    > "deadly privileges"?
    >
    > For some reason this phrase strikes me as funny. It's a bit Star Trek,
    > as in:
    >
    > 'escalate privileges to "Deadly", Mr. Spock'
    >
    > 'Aye, Captain. Privileges escalated to "Deadly"'
    >
    > Heh.[/ref]

    Charlie Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    ok that last thing ...




































    that was just fun !

    Charlie wrote:
     
    >> be 
    >>
    >> "deadly privileges"?
    >>
    >> For some reason this phrase strikes me as funny. It's a bit Star
    >> Trek,
    >> as in:
    >>
    >> 'escalate privileges to "Deadly", Mr. Spock'
    >>
    >> 'Aye, Captain. Privileges escalated to "Deadly"'
    >>
    >> Heh.[/ref]
    >[/ref]
    --
    Design & Authoring
    [ Danda] [ D&A] | New Media Solutions | New Media Development
    [ audio - video - 3d - cd-rom - dvd - web - virtual crm ]

    Bezoek de Websites voor meer informatie:

    HOOFDSITE
    http://www.danda.nl

    DATABASEPRODUCTEN
    http://www.digital-software.nl
    http://www.bizz-software.com

    PORTFOLIO SITE
    http://www.digital-media.nl

    CONTACTINFORMATIE
    tel. +31(0)73 6446119 / b.g.g. +31(0)6 22985410
    fax +31(0)73 6415878


    Charlie Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    Charlie <nl> wrote:
     

    You really ought to have them adjust your medications.

    And, John Wolf, please don't go using this post as another example of
    Windows XP being better than OS X.

    --
    Mike Rosenberg

    <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
    <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
    Mike Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    Its deadly for your disks (Haha) ; since there is no cure yet for drives
    bigger than 120Gb it's even an ongoing problem.
    If you doubt the story ; take Norton 5 or 6 carefully out and examine
    your diskdrives from under os9 ..

    Norton 5 an Norton 6 are OS9 worthy applications .. They can be used in
    a broad scope of problems .. but
    you will see that your disks ; and i mean all that got into contact
    with an os10.2.6. computer, have serious problems .. containing the list
    i provided in my first posting. (I did not test Firewire because that is
    a too wide territory.. and it could involve firewire disk aswell )

    Anyhow : As a result of not correcting this, you will lose more and more
    functionality, Photoshop(under os9) will start to drop out.more and more
    (Happened to a college) on my first machine it was Final Cut that kept
    shutting down more and more often ... and eventualy your disk won't
    start up under os 9 and if you try to fix it from there it will not
    start from osx either.

    And then you will trie to retrieve your data and that proces could
    spunch up a couple of days .. and then you maybe start knowing that
    there is a problem ..

    Just trying to save everyone's day .. still got no sympathic reaction
    from anyone exept two companies i buy my apples.. One had it themselves
    and the other knows .. My guess is, sinds it takes quite an afford in
    time to see what is happening under your nose .. it will be all over the
    web in a couple of months or will die thanks to reactions like the
    previous i am receiving and nobody will give a damm because everybody is
    into osx anyway .. but

    People like me who still work with a lot of os9 software and hardware
    that was not filled in by osx solutions have no other option then making
    shure their os9 machienes work intact .. and this is where this bug
    comes in and makes a terrible mess.. It took me more than a week to
    locate the problem in a repetitive way, but I can assure you that i can
    now take any apple and show what osx 10.2.6 does to its drives .. and
    what painstaking procedure it takes to get rid off. If you're save and
    working just with osx there is no point to react .. otherwise woo you
    are in trouble.... sorry

    Charlie / Kay Belik

    PS:
    (i do not know about this newsgroup until this evening ... but up till
    now only real stupid remarks .. Thank U!!!.... please people get out
    there .. Take norton 5 or 6 under os9.x.x and start getting worried ..
    !!! its true)

    oh and once again you might have overlooked the thing : DO NOT USE
    NORTON TO MAKE ANY CHANGES !!!


    Ian Gregory wrote:
     
    >
    > Did anyone actually believe any of that? Deadly privileges?!!
    >
    > Ian Gregory
    > Systems and Applications Manager
    > Learning and Information Services
    > University of Hertfordshire[/ref]

    --
    Design & Authoring
    [ Danda] [ D&A] | New Media Solutions | New Media Development
    [ audio - video - 3d - cd-rom - dvd - web - virtual crm ]

    Bezoek de Websites voor meer informatie:

    HOOFDSITE
    http://www.danda.nl

    DATABASEPRODUCTEN
    http://www.digital-software.nl
    http://www.bizz-software.com

    PORTFOLIO SITE
    http://www.digital-media.nl

    CONTACTINFORMATIE
    tel. +31(0)73 6446119 / b.g.g. +31(0)6 22985410
    fax +31(0)73 6415878


    Charlie Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9



    Michelle Steiner wrote:
     
    >
    > Set phasers to "Enough"
    >
    > --
    > Never play strip tarot.[/ref]

    Haha !!! ok thanks!!! sometimes i sit to long and become to much one of them
    .... Hahaha

    Kay / Charlie / whatever ..
    --
    Design & Authoring
    [ Danda] [ D&A] | New Media Solutions | New Media Development
    [ audio - video - 3d - cd-rom - dvd - web - virtual crm ]

    Bezoek de Websites voor meer informatie:

    HOOFDSITE
    http://www.danda.nl

    DATABASEPRODUCTEN
    http://www.digital-software.nl
    http://www.bizz-software.com

    PORTFOLIO SITE
    http://www.digital-media.nl

    CONTACTINFORMATIE
    tel. +31(0)73 6446119 / b.g.g. +31(0)6 22985410
    fax +31(0)73 6415878


    Charlie Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <nl>, Charlie <nl>
    wrote:
     

    recent macs can handle drives larger than 120gb and one can add an
    lba-48 compliant ata card to older macs. or, just get a firewire bridge
    that supports lba-48.
     

    norton 5? thats very old. no wonder you have problems.
     

    but they don't handle osx properly. your corruption is likely due to
    norton, not osx. norton 5 is *old*.
     

    i regularly shuttle files between osx and os9 machines on a firewire
    drive several times a day. i've been doing this for months. no
    corruption whatsoever.

    now, osx does have some disk issues of its own, but what you are
    describing is not one of them.
     

    'drop out' ?
     

    i just hate when proces spunch up. really ruins the day.
     

    and i can show you it doesn't happen.
     

    this part i agree. but not for your reasoning.
    nospam Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <nl>, Charlie <nl>
    wrote:
     

    (much rambling and BS snipped)

    Yes, NU 5 & 6 are good OS9 utilities. The latest version of Norton is 8
    and is designed with OSX in mind. You need to do some research. Maybe
    you need to upgrade and stop ing about thing you know nothing
    about....
    --
    Slartibartfast
    Winner of the prestigious "Fijords" award;
    Fijords and Continents Dept
    Magrethea Planetary Industries
    www.magrathea.org
    org
    Slartibartfast Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    While this thread sure will stay controversial, I have the impression that
    it was very well-meant, and I assume there is personal experience (and disk
    damage) behind it.

    Thinking about it, I got an idea what it could be - I really don't know if
    it could be true, so I ask it here and would love to get your advice and
    judgement about the idea.

    About 2 weeks ago, the German c't magazine issued a warning about using
    Norton, unfortunately there is no English version available, but here is the
    link:
    http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/se-26.08.03-000/

    In a nutshell, the article says that all versions of Norton can destroy
    harddisks resulting in a complete loss of data. c't magazine is
    platform-independent and has a very high reputation - in the article they
    say that they were able to re-produce the problem on several of their own
    Macs.

    When I read this, I was wondering why it took so long until this was
    discovered - the bug seems to be in all older versions of Norton, and if it
    is "re-producable" then it must have been discovered months (and years) ago.

    However, if you combine the c't article with this thread, then suddenly both
    could make sense:

    Is it possible that 10.2.6 applies some minor modification to mounted disks,
    that are (by itself) completely harmless, but subsequently trigger Norton to
    garble the disk during the scan?

    That would explain why it took until now that the "Norton bug" was
    discovered, and it explains why it would look like OS 10.2.6 causing the
    damage.

    M. Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    Thank U verry much for the first serious contribution !!!

    The story already spun off in other diskussions and in other groups as well (kay
    instead of charlie) ..

    The point just is that what you hear in the article is that Norton is the cause
    of the problem .. but i just discovered that the problem is not Norton but those
    modifiactions: and i call them privileges; because; they concern sectors of the
    disk that can or can not be written, replaced, overwritten, formatted etc - they
    even cannot be formatted under DOS as i explained ..

    the list once more:
    - the driver descriptor index,
    - the partition index,
    - the volume header block, and
    - the alternative header block,
    - the catalog B-tree
    - and sometimes sector9 and the partition table...

    My findings are that problems start to evolve slowly on the os-9 side. When the
    machine is booted under os9.
    Programs hang up more and more often ; Final Cut 3 with me, College's Photohop
    ..., so is the machine, finally it won't start up at all.
    But that's because i am a real intense user .. i see those effects faster than
    others .. i presume.

    The admin privileges under osx are not locking the disks up like under os9. So
    OSx users will not know but they can effect others when sharing their disks ;
    (not via network but fysically)..
    The moment a disk comes in direct contact with osx10.2.6 it is infected with by
    it's permissions.
    I still don't know about those big firewire disks.

    When this bug is introduced ( the moment osx 10.2.6. is installed )
    when Norton repairs your disks it tries to move arround parts that in fact do
    not move; so they are copied but also in their old places and there the
    diskcatastrofie from Norton starts with ...

    One of my college's used Norton 8 but it had the same results .. I did not use
    it because i do not own norton 8, only norton 6. And up till now i was able to
    keep everything right in shape .. and after removing osx10.2.6 i again can keep
    these things in shape.

    But i agree fully that that article refers to exactly the same problem.

    Thanks again you for this input. I hope there come's in more to back this up.
    Finally to be able to make a real cure.

    Kay


    "M." wrote:
     

    --
    Design & Authoring
    [ Danda] [ D&A] | New Media Solutions | New Media Development
    [ audio - video - 3d - cd-rom - dvd - web - virtual crm ]

    Bezoek de Websites voor meer informatie:

    HOOFDSITE
    http://www.danda.nl

    Kay Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    clvrmnky <com.invalid> wrote:
     
    >
    > "deadly privileges"?
    >
    > For some reason this phrase strikes me as funny. It's a bit Star Trek,
    > as in:
    >
    > 'escalate privileges to "Deadly", Mr. Spock'
    >
    > 'Aye, Captain. Privileges escalated to "Deadly"'
    >
    > Heh.[/ref]

    I was thinking it was like James Bond's license to kill, with OS X
    entering some little witticism in the console every time it dispatched a
    volume: "Don't mind him, he's just spinning."
    Neill Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <nl>, Kay <nl> wrote:
     

    While I don't know for sure about the driver descriptor index, I am
    pretty sure that *all* of the other items you listed are rewritable
    (though you _will_ lose all data on the disk) by tools like pdisk
    and/or Disk Utility. I have no idea about the detailed limitations
    of any DOS-based formatter, nor do I care. But the idea that things
    like the partition map are permanently "scored into the disk" somehow
    to be dubious, as I myself have seen those things get changed. There
    is nothing magic about the sectors that contain the partition map,
    for example.

    Regardless of what/who is the "cause of the problem", it seems to me
    that those of us who NEVER use Norton will NOT be affected in any
    way by this "OS X 10.2.6-caused" corruption.

    Do you concur?

    If so, perhaps we should change the thread title to:

    NORTON CORRUPTS ALL HARD DISKS

    instead...

    --
    Jim Glidewell
    My opinions only
    Jim Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    Jim Glidewell wrote:
     

    While the c't article that I mentioned earlier only refers to Norton trying
    to "scan and repair", the user discussion in the article forum featured
    several reports claiming that Norton even manages to destroy data while it
    only scans.

    That could be the core of the mystery - you would assume that Norton only
    shows *existing* problems (unless you tell it to "repair"), while in fact it
    may create problems even if you only search for them.

    There was an interesting contribution by Dale J. Stephenson in the "How do I
    defragment..." sister thread, where he explains why harmless edits of some
    flags may be "repaired" by older Nortons, resulting in big trouble. It must
    be something like that.

    Another thing that sounds very odd to me is this - if the damage is really
    so low-level that even a DOS formatting doesn't solve it, then how could
    DiskWarrior 2.1.1 repair it?

    Unless there are other reports (by people only ever using FirstAid and
    DiskWarrior), it looks like that only Norton shows the problems, and they
    only appear when you use it to *look* for them. Once you stop this vicious
    circle and trash Norton, it should be fine again.

    M. Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: OS X 10.2.6 CORRUPTS ALL HARDDISKS UNDER OS9

    In article <BB8E6279.36AC6%com>, "M." <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > While the c't article that I mentioned earlier only refers to Norton trying
    > to "scan and repair", the user discussion in the article forum featured
    > several reports claiming that Norton even manages to destroy data while it
    > only scans.
    >
    > That could be the core of the mystery - you would assume that Norton only
    > shows *existing* problems (unless you tell it to "repair"), while in fact it
    > may create problems even if you only search for them.
    >
    > There was an interesting contribution by Dale J. Stephenson in the "How do I
    > defragment..." sister thread, where he explains why harmless edits of some
    > flags may be "repaired" by older Nortons, resulting in big trouble. It must
    > be something like that.[/ref]

    I'll mention one other possibilty here - there could be a low-level OS9
    hardware or software problem, particularly if these drives are firewire.

    In the posting:

    <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=jimglidewell-0207030956450001%40green.sdc.cs.boeing.com>

    I detail how Disk First Aid (DFA) on a 8500/G3/OS9 w/PCI firewire card
    would consistently report errors on an external firewire drive, while
    the same exact drive would get a clean bill of health when I moved it
    over to OSX on a G4 with built-in firewire.

    Letting DFA "fix things" on OS9 would have definitely made things worse
    (since the drive data was good initially).

    If the disk errors change from run to run or the scan _without_ repairs,
    then I'd suspect a data integrity error due to a hardware, firmware, or
    driver problem.

    I gave up on firewire HDs on my 8500, BTW...

    --
    Jim Glidewell
    My opinions only
    Jim Guest

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