OS X Mail or Entourage ?

[Rick Blythin]

Hey all,

I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.

Any opinions would be great.

Also I've put together a list of the most common issues that I'll take along
when I go buy my PB I plan to thoroughly examine the unit. If anyone has any
other issues they've had let me know & I'll add it. My list so far:

- Feet coming off
- Latch breaking
- Screen warped
- Off balance (battery not flush with case)
- Screen ripple on left corner (as if to much pressure on LCD)

Cheers,
Rick

[Jeffrey]

In article <4YS%a.2173$Ki3.264090@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Rick Blythin" <mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote:

> I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
> Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
> it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
> newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
> Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
> business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.
>
> Any opinions would be great.

I am using Apple Mail and testing Entourage. Apple Mail does not have
newsreading capabilities as opposed to Entourage. You have to buy MS
Entourage or Office vs. the included Apple Mail in PB. As far as Apple
Mail speed is concerned, it's pretty quick. I'm happy with it.

>
> Also I've put together a list of the most common issues that I'll take along
> when I go buy my PB I plan to thoroughly examine the unit. If anyone has any
> other issues they've had let me know & I'll add it. My list so far:
>
> - Feet coming off
> - Latch breaking
> - Screen warped
> - Off balance (battery not flush with case)
> - Screen ripple on left corner (as if to much pressure on LCD)
>
> Cheers,
> Rick
>

If you're thinking about PB 12", you will encounter the "heat on the
left wristpad issue." As far as my PB is concerned, the feet are snug
unlike my iBook 12" combo. Your concerns were documented subjectively.
Generally, the PB's are well built. When you get one, you have 10 days
to probe and examine before returns (stocking fee required). I have mine
one month old and with updates next week rumored, my baby will stay with
me. I did not purchase Applecare though I have the opportunity to get
one still.

[Rick Blythin]

"Patrick Mills" <plmills@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.08.17.22.51.28.575090@ix.netcom.com. ..

> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:02:23 -0400, Rick Blythin wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I'll bite. I've just switched to the Mac (PB G4 17) from the PC (P4 XP)
> (well, I actually now use both), and I had the same decision to make. I
> bought Office for the Mac, thinking I'd tie Entourage into our Exchange
> server at work with the new support just brought out by Microsoft.
>
> I will still use the Office apps, but now don't plan to use Entourage. I
> *hated* the newsgroup reader (and all native newsreaders I found for the
> Mac), and wound up installing X11 (Apple's XWindows software) and using an
> XWindows newsreader called Pan - just wonderful.
>
> Another reason I didn't use Entourage was the poor integration with
> Exchange. Requires Exchange 2000 (we use 5.5) and the web-based Exchange
> stuff (we don't use that, either), and there appear to be growing
> complaints about the usability of Entourage with Exchange.
>
> OTOH, I really like Apple's Mail.app and the X-based Pan newsreader (it's
> so much better than OE on the PC as a newsreader - I had no idea...). To
> get my email from Exchange, I just set up some server-based rules to
> forward to my .Mac account. Kind of clunky, but it works.

Thanks for your thoughts on the mail client. I was leaning toward Mail
anyway as I figure Entourage would be more of a resource hog and I won't use
most of the features. I'll check out Pan as a newsreader. Like you I use
Word, Excel, Powerpoint for Access I'll still have my Athlon 2200 w/XP. I'm
surprised that Entourage and Exchange have issues as I assume Entourage is
based on Outlook you'd have thought they would all intergrate. Then again
after almost 15 years of supporting PC/networks I usually assume headaches
with MS products. If I get lucky it makes a nice change!.

> I have a G4 17", not a 12", but I am missing one of the rubber feet off of
> my PB. The rubber piece sort of "ripped" off partially, and eventually
> fell completely off. Doesn't seem to make any difference to how the
> machine sets, and it doesn't wobble or anything, even with the rubber
> piece missing. Don't know if there's a way to replace it. Haven't seen
> any of the other issues on my PG.

After such a wide spread issue with the feet you'd have thought Apple would
come up with something more secure. Maybe they will on the next models!.

Cheers,
Rick

[Jim Hill]

Jeffrey wrote:

>I am using Apple Mail and testing Entourage. Apple Mail does not have
>newsreading capabilities as opposed to Entourage.

Hunh. A mail client that doesn't read Usenet. Ain't that just the
gol-durnedest thing?


Jim, "do one thing only but do it well"
--

Longhaired freaky people need not apply.

[Luigi]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:51:29 -0500
"Patrick Mills" <plmills@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:02:23 -0400, Rick Blythin wrote:
>
>
> *hated* the newsgroup reader (and all native newsreaders I found for
> the Mac), and wound up installing X11 (Apple's XWindows software) and
> using an XWindows newsreader called Pan - just wonderful.

Wait till you try Sylpheed (mail and news) :)

Luigi

[Irene Friedman]

In article <4YS%a.2173$Ki3.264090@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Rick Blythin" <mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
> Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
> it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
> newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
> Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
> business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.

I tried both Mail and Entourage and ended up with Eudora (6.Ob.26).
Eudora is for mail only; I use MT-Newswatcher for Usenet.

[Kevin Stevens]

In article <iesf-BDDCE9.19232917082003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
Irene Friedman <iesf@excite.com> wrote:

> In article <4YS%a.2173$Ki3.264090@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> "Rick Blythin" <mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote:
>

> > Hey all,
> >
> > I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
> > Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
> > it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
> > newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
> > Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
> > business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.

>
>
> I tried both Mail and Entourage and ended up with Eudora (6.Ob.26).
> Eudora is for mail only; I use MT-Newswatcher for Usenet.

Why not start with Mail and see if it meets your needs, if not go to
Entourage. I have both but use Mail because it does everything I need
it to do, and in particular works well as an IMAP client. (I found
Eudora to be significantly slower when working via IMAP).

KeS

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <oe7611-jqt1.ln1@pursued-with.net>,
Kevin Stevens <Kevin_Stevens@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> Why not start with Mail and see if it meets your needs, if not go to
> Entourage. I have both but use Mail because it does everything I need
> it to do, and in particular works well as an IMAP client. (I found
> Eudora to be significantly slower when working via IMAP).

Or try Mailsmith. It's got wonderful filtering capabilities!

--
Today, on Paper-view: Pulp Fiction!

[Jim Carson]

In article <x3U%a.2273$Ki3.293888@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Rick Blythin" <mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote:

<snip>

> I'm
> surprised that Entourage and Exchange have issues as I assume Entourage is
> based on Outlook you'd have thought they would all intergrate. Then again
> after almost 15 years of supporting PC/networks I usually assume headaches
> with MS products. If I get lucky it makes a nice change!.
>

Boy Howdy! MS has had over a year to get their act together with
Entourage and give their paying customers an OSX native client for
working _with their own_ exchange server environment. After waiting all
this time for the upgrade, they couldn't even get their own MAPI
protocols working, instead using IMAP.

Anyone out their looking to purchase Entourage to use with an Exchange
server is going to be mighty disappointed.

Pathetic.

Stolen sig: If Bill Gates had a penny for every time Windows crashes...
Oh wait. He does.

[Scott]

This is an interesting question for me. I recently bought a 12"
Powerbook, and I installed Entourage. Why? Because I have Office X.

I use it for email and for appointments; newsreading is done with
MT-Newswatcher.

However, it seems that many 3rd party apps (i.e., spam reporting
scripts, etc.) seem to be set for Mail.*

Is there any reason NOT to switch to Mail and iCal?




* why didn't Apple do their usual schtick and call it iMail?

--
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[Lewin A.R.W. Edwards]

> I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use

> Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find

ALL of the Office X suite is bloatware that doesn't play well with
multitasking. Mail is a much more svelte app. If you don't plan to use
Entourage's "features", then use Mail. (Personally I use Palm Desktop
for my appointment/contact management, which is really just a backup
for my Treo 90's contents - I rarely/never enter or view data on the
computer except when cutting/pasting long text into memos).

Office X - particularly Word - is the first suite of programs I've
found that causes glitchiness in CPU-demanding foreground tasks.

[Bob B.]

In article
<heimdall-736C92.14580818082003@news4-ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
Scott <heimdall@spamless.invalid> wrote:

> This is an interesting question for me. I recently bought a 12"
> Powerbook, and I installed Entourage. Why? Because I have Office X.
>
> I use it for email and for appointments; newsreading is done with
> MT-Newswatcher.
>
> However, it seems that many 3rd party apps (i.e., spam reporting
> scripts, etc.) seem to be set for Mail.*
>
> Is there any reason NOT to switch to Mail and iCal?
>
>
>
>
> * why didn't Apple do their usual schtick and call it iMail?

I have two reasons for using Entourage over Mail. First, I find that
Mail isn't very slick handling HTML mail - it doesn't render the HTML
very well, and it seems slow. From what I have read, this problem is
fixed in Panther, as Mail will use the rendering engine used by Safari.

The second problem is that I have a lot of friends with PCs, and
Entrourage allows you to send photo attachments in "Windows (MIME)"
format, while Mail only supports "Apple Double", which is fine for Macs,
but to Windows users looks like two attachments.

Bob B.

[Scott]

In article <bobb-9AE397.15583818082003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
"Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote:

> I have two reasons for using Entourage over Mail. First, I find that
> Mail isn't very slick handling HTML mail - it doesn't render the HTML
> very well, and it seems slow. From what I have read, this problem is
> fixed in Panther, as Mail will use the rendering engine used by Safari.

I have HTML mail rendering turned off in Entourage. 99 times out of 100,
if I get HTML encoded mail, it's spam. I'm still in the camp that
believes that HTML belongs on web pages, not in email.

> The second problem is that I have a lot of friends with PCs, and
> Entrourage allows you to send photo attachments in "Windows (MIME)"
> format, while Mail only supports "Apple Double", which is fine for Macs,
> but to Windows users looks like two attachments.

Interesting point. How does Hotmail support Apple Double? Probably the
only PC user I send photo attachments to checks that account via the
Hotmail web site.


I've been playing with Mail. Two things:
I have a BUNCH of email accounts. Mail was able to import my messages,
but none of my account settings (except for .Mac). Can it handle
multiple accounts easily? The interface looks rather clumsy.

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[Whytoi]

In article <4YS%a.2173$Ki3.264090@news20.bellglobal.com>, Rick Blythin
<mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote:

I have been using a 12" since Feb and use Entourage as my default.

> I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
> Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
> it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
> newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
> Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
> business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.

I'd suggest that you try Mail as it's free. I liked Mail for the fact
that it's UNIX standards compliant in terms of file storage (to my
understanding). However, I wasn't comfortable with the interface for
the numerous emails accounts and the categories I needed. So I
switched. I noted also that Entourage received significant contribution
from ex-Claris Emailer authors. I don't use Entourage's newsreader
facility as I don't need an offline newsreader nor it's extra wasted
bandwidth. But I do use it's Hotmail facility as my default spam trap.
As for spam filter is concerned, there's this shareware "SpamSieve"
which works well with Entourage. I believe it's similar if not more
functional than Apple's spam implementation.

> Also I've put together a list of the most common issues that I'll take along
> when I go buy my PB I plan to thoroughly examine the unit. If anyone has any
> other issues they've had let me know & I'll add it. My list so far:
>
> - Feet coming off
> - Latch breaking
> - Screen warped
> - Off balance (battery not flush with case)
> - Screen ripple on left corner (as if to much pressure on LCD)

My feet fell off. So I bought some clear rubber (silicon) stick-on
feet. These worked nicely as they elevated the base further and gave
the base more bounce. The latch is a tad sticky occasionally but if
handled with care, it should not break. I have no other problems over
the last 6 months.

[Scott]

Just had a thought that really answers the question for me: Entourage
can check Hotmail accounts; Mail cannot.

--
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[Cat]

In article
<heimdall-6F91E9.09491519082003@news4-ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
Scott <heimdall@spamless.invalid> wrote:

> Just had a thought that really answers the question for me: Entourage
> can check Hotmail accounts; Mail cannot.

Yes it can. Go to [url]http://www.versiontracker.com[/url] and search for the Mail Hotmail plug in. Last I looked, it worked very
well.

Meow

[Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Bob B. wrote:

> The second problem is that I have a lot of friends with PCs, and
> Entrourage allows you to send photo attachments in "Windows (MIME)"
> format, while Mail only supports "Apple Double", which is fine for Macs,
> but to Windows users looks like two attachments.
>
> Bob B.

I wanted to check this before I responded; because while I hadn't noticed
any problems I wasn't sure I'd emailed photos before.

I sent an email with jpeg image from Mail to my corporate account, and
opened it with Outlook (2000, SR-1). The picture showed up as a single
attachment, and opened/saved to disk just like any other.

I'd be interested to know if you have details of which Windows email
program people were seeing problems with?

KeS

[Bob B.]

In article <20030819122132.Y75167@babelfish.pursued-with.net>,
[email]Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com[/email] wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Bob B. wrote:
>

> > The second problem is that I have a lot of friends with PCs, and
> > Entrourage allows you to send photo attachments in "Windows (MIME)"
> > format, while Mail only supports "Apple Double", which is fine for Macs,
> > but to Windows users looks like two attachments.
> >
> > Bob B.

>
> I wanted to check this before I responded; because while I hadn't noticed
> any problems I wasn't sure I'd emailed photos before.
>
> I sent an email with jpeg image from Mail to my corporate account, and
> opened it with Outlook (2000, SR-1). The picture showed up as a single
> attachment, and opened/saved to disk just like any other.
>
> I'd be interested to know if you have details of which Windows email
> program people were seeing problems with?
>
> KeS

OK, I just tried this to make sure I wasn't misremembering..

I sent an email to myself by dragging a jpeg image into Mail and sending
it. I opened the message on a PC using Outlook Express, and it shows I
have two attachments. The second, larger attachment is the photo I was
trying to send. The first, smaller attachment shows a detail from the
photo. I would have thought the first attachment would be the resource
fork, and just show garbage..

Also, using my Yahoo mail account from Safari (so no PC is involved) it
also shows me two attachments, the first of which appears to be empty.

Maybe there is some setting in OE or Yahoo I could set to fix this, but
a quick glance at their settings didn't reveal what it might be.


Bob B.

[Kevin Stevens]

In article <bobb-392F24.15002919082003@news.fu-berlin.de>,
"Bob B." <bobb@sphinx.com> wrote:

> In article <20030819122132.Y75167@babelfish.pursued-with.net>,
> [email]Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com[/email] wrote:
>

> > On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Bob B. wrote:
> >

> > > The second problem is that I have a lot of friends with PCs, and
> > > Entrourage allows you to send photo attachments in "Windows (MIME)"
> > > format, while Mail only supports "Apple Double", which is fine for Macs,
> > > but to Windows users looks like two attachments.
> > >
> > > Bob B.

> >
> > I wanted to check this before I responded; because while I hadn't noticed
> > any problems I wasn't sure I'd emailed photos before.
> >
> > I sent an email with jpeg image from Mail to my corporate account, and
> > opened it with Outlook (2000, SR-1). The picture showed up as a single
> > attachment, and opened/saved to disk just like any other.
> >
> > I'd be interested to know if you have details of which Windows email
> > program people were seeing problems with?
> >
> > KeS

>
> OK, I just tried this to make sure I wasn't misremembering..
>
> I sent an email to myself by dragging a jpeg image into Mail and sending
> it. I opened the message on a PC using Outlook Express, and it shows I
> have two attachments. The second, larger attachment is the photo I was
> trying to send. The first, smaller attachment shows a detail from the
> photo. I would have thought the first attachment would be the resource
> fork, and just show garbage..
>
> Also, using my Yahoo mail account from Safari (so no PC is involved) it
> also shows me two attachments, the first of which appears to be empty.
>
> Maybe there is some setting in OE or Yahoo I could set to fix this, but
> a quick glance at their settings didn't reveal what it might be.
>
>
> Bob B.

Don't know what to tell you. I just did the same thing, and sent the
message to Hotmail and Yahoo accounts. One attachment, handled
perfectly. I also viewed the sent message from Outlook Express, and it
looked the same...

I'll send the email to you directly; it's not large. See what you think.

KeS

[Terry]

Rick,
Re: Overall 'mechanical' concerns regarding protecting your 12PB can
be put to rest with a CompuShell case. Apparently the 12" (with port
accessibility on the sides) is coming out in about a month. [I've
ordered one, but it's back-ordered...] I'd seen a 15" case and they
are VERY cool (and, mainly, keep the PB totally protected)! See it at:
[url]http://www.compushell.com[/url]
Terry


"Rick Blythin" <mosguy@gosympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<4YS%a.2173$Ki3.264090@news20.bellglobal.com> ...

> Hey all,
>
> I'll be buying my 12 PB next weekend I'm debating which e-mail client to use
> Mail or Entourage. Current I use Outlook Express on my PC's because I find
> it's slightly quicker in general the Outlook, plus Outlook lacks a built in
> newsgroup reader. As for OS X I have heard benefits to both Mail and
> Entourage both have features the other lacks. I'll mainly use it for
> business e-mail because I use my Palm for calendar, lists, memo's etc.
>
> Any opinions would be great.
>
> Also I've put together a list of the most common issues that I'll take along
> when I go buy my PB I plan to thoroughly examine the unit. If anyone has any
> other issues they've had let me know & I'll add it. My list so far:
>
> - Feet coming off
> - Latch breaking
> - Screen warped
> - Off balance (battery not flush with case)
> - Screen ripple on left corner (as if to much pressure on LCD)
>
> Cheers,
> Rick