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OSX: not ready to switch yet - Mac Applications & Software

I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a better way to do this?...

  1. #1

    Default OSX: not ready to switch yet

    I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    better way to do this?
    nosredna Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In <nosredna-DD54B7.12135930062003news.fu-berlin.de> nosredna wrote:
    > I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash
    > more than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch
    > yet, but would like to get used to it gradually without interference
    > in my daily work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard
    > disk be a better way to do this?
    Yes, if it works. Not every computer / hard disk will allow you to boot
    OS X form an external drive. But if your situation allows this, that
    would be a very good approach. I was the same way when Mac OS X first
    came out, switching back and forth, and it was not until a year later
    that I noticed that I was in Mac OS X almost all the time. m.


    --
    matt neuburg, phd = [email]matttidbits.com[/email], [url]http://www.tidbits.com/matt[/url]
    REALbasic: The Definitive Guide! 2nd edition!
    [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001770/somethingsbymatt[/url]
    Subscribe to TidBITS. It's free and smart.
    matt neuburg Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    <<
    I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    better way to do this?
    >><BR><BR>
    OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the system.
    What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?
    Mikeq1139 Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    > than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    > would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    > work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    > better way to do this?
    Better than what? Why not just installe OS X 10.2 on your Mac's internal hard drive
    (no need to partition) and than apply the updates and see how you like it? If you
    don't find OS X fits your needs, don't use it. Just having OS X sit on your Mac is not
    going to hurt anything, other than use up disk space.
    stan@temple.edu Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    Which programs crashed? You might want to look at upgrading your software to OS X
    native software if its available and not too costly. I use OS X day in and day out and
    software and the OS rarely crashes on me. I haven't used any Classic apps since August
    of last year also.
    stan@temple.edu Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <bdq6bq$8pr$2cronkite.temple.edu>, [email]stantemple.edu[/email] wrote:
    > nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    >
    > > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    >
    > Which programs crashed? You might want to look at upgrading your software to
    > OS X
    > native software if its available and not too costly. I use OS X day in and
    > day out and
    > software and the OS rarely crashes on me. I haven't used any Classic apps
    > since August
    > of last year also.
    That's just the point. I simply can't afford to upgrade everything
    (Adobe stuff--graphics and Acrobat, Quark, Word, Quicken, Toast, to name
    a few). At this point I would only be using OSX to do internet stuff;
    I'd have to be in Classic most of the time.
    nosredna Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna
    <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    A couple of crashes a month is fine?

    And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?

    Have you considered checking your RAM?

    G
    Greg Weston Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <300620032106223501%gwestonREMOVECAPSattbi.com> ,
    Greg Weston <gwestonREMOVECAPSattbi.com> wrote:
    > In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna
    > <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    >
    > > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    >
    > A couple of crashes a month is fine?
    >
    > And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?
    >
    > Have you considered checking your RAM?

    I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "We really haven't done everything we could to protect our
    customers ... Our products just aren't engineered for security."
    -- Brian Valentine, Sr VP in charge of MS Windows' Dev Team
    Thom Rosario Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105mb-m02.aol.com>,
    > [email]mikeq1139aol.com[/email] (Mikeq1139) wrote:
    >
    > > <<
    > > I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    > > than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    > > would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    > > work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    > > better way to do this?
    > > >><BR><BR>
    > >
    > > OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the system.
    > > What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?
    >
    > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    > Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to
    > sucb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an
    > improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people
    > here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally
    > different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my
    > System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself
    > (occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files
    > look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some
    > of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer
    > programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in
    > 1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out
    > intuitively.
    If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
    partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
    be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.

    Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are
    absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
    need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
    store things in the system folder.

    The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to aculate a lot of
    extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being
    used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
    external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.

    While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this
    reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
    have problems with Classic Apps.

    Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
    preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
    files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.

    If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not
    behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party
    memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...


    Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on
    switching to Mac OS X.
    Bob Harris
    Bob Harris Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article
    <ThomRosario-4730A3.21484430062003central.isp.giganews.com>,
    Thom Rosario <ThomRosarionospam.com> wrote:
    > In article <300620032106223501%gwestonREMOVECAPSattbi.com> ,
    > Greg Weston <gwestonREMOVECAPSattbi.com> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>, nosredna
    > > <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > > > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > > > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > > > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > > > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > > > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > > > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > > > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > > > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    > >
    > > A couple of crashes a month is fine?
    > >
    > > And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?
    > >
    > > Have you considered checking your RAM?
    >
    >
    > I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.
    >
    (Orig. poster) v.9.0.4 was terrible (at least five crashes a day) when I
    first got it. I applied all the patches that came later and then it was
    fine. But I was glad when 9.1 came out, and things are still fine at
    9.2.2. To me, two crashes a month is pretty darn good.
    nosredna Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <harris-828656.22511230062003juggl7.zk3.dec.com>,
    Bob Harris <harriszk3.dec.com> wrote:
    > In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    > nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105mb-m02.aol.com>,
    > > [email]mikeq1139aol.com[/email] (Mikeq1139) wrote:
    > >
    > > > <<
    > > > I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    > > > than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    > > > would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    > > > work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    > > > better way to do this?
    > > > >><BR><BR>
    > > >
    > > > OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the
    > > > system.
    > > > What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?
    > >
    > > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    > > Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to
    > > sucb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an
    > > improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people
    > > here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally
    > > different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my
    > > System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself
    > > (occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files
    > > look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some
    > > of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer
    > > programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in
    > > 1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out
    > > intuitively.
    >
    > If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
    > partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
    > be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.
    >
    > Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are
    > absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
    > need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
    > store things in the system folder.
    >
    > The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to aculate a lot of
    > extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being
    > used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
    > external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.
    >
    > While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this
    > reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
    > have problems with Classic Apps.
    >
    > Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
    > preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
    > files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.
    >
    > If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not
    > behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party
    > memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...
    >
    >
    > Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on
    > switching to Mac OS X.
    > Bob Harris
    Thanks--I'll heed your advice. When you say, "Also install a separate
    Mac OS 9.2.2for Classic," do you mean I'll have two instances of OS9 on
    my machine? Or by "separate" do you mean "separate partition?"
    nosredna Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <nosredna-5A4943.23492930062003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > In article
    > <ThomRosario-4730A3.21484430062003central.isp.giganews.com>,
    > Thom Rosario <ThomRosarionospam.com> wrote:
    >
    > > > A couple of crashes a month is fine?
    > > >
    > > > And OS X was _worse_ than that on your machine?
    > > >
    > > > Have you considered checking your RAM?
    > >
    > >
    > > I used to crash several times a DAY in OS 9. I hated it.
    > >
    >
    > (Orig. poster) v.9.0.4 was terrible (at least five crashes a day) when I
    > first got it. I applied all the patches that came later and then it was
    > fine. But I was glad when 9.1 came out, and things are still fine at
    > 9.2.2. To me, two crashes a month is pretty darn good.
    To be fair..... that was 9.0.4 for me, too.

    About that time, my ADC copy of OS X Beta showed up, and I didn't have
    to deal w/ OS 9 anymore. Once I went to OS X Beta, I never looked back:
    warts and all, it was still better than OS 9 was.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    "We really haven't done everything we could to protect our
    customers ... Our products just aren't engineered for security."
    -- Brian Valentine, Sr VP in charge of MS Windows' Dev Team
    Thom Rosario Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: OSX: not ready to switch yet

    In article <nosredna-F8A3B0.23544130062003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > In article <harris-828656.22511230062003juggl7.zk3.dec.com>,
    > Bob Harris <harriszk3.dec.com> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <nosredna-4BB391.16191930062003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    > > nosredna <nosrednasuscom.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > > In article <20030630154258.20861.00003105mb-m02.aol.com>,
    > > > [email]mikeq1139aol.com[/email] (Mikeq1139) wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > <<
    > > > > I tried OSX a few months ago and it seemed to cause my G4 to crash more
    > > > > than usual, so I took it off. I'm not ready to make the switch yet, but
    > > > > would like to get used to it gradually without interference in my daily
    > > > > work. Would having it all by itself, on an external hard disk be a
    > > > > better way to do this?
    > > > > >><BR><BR>
    > > > >
    > > > > OS X never crashes on me. Programs occasionally crash, but not the
    > > > > system.
    > > > > What do you have on your system that is causing crashes?
    > > >
    > > > True, the crashes didn't always bring the whole system down, but
    > > > programs crashed more often (mostly when in Classic Mode) than they ever
    > > > did before I installed OSX. I had OSX on its own separate partition, yet
    > > > it seemed to install files on my OS9 partition as well (at least I
    > > > assumed they were OSX files, because they were not there before I
    > > > installed OSX). Things got so weird that I deleted OSX . Even after all
    > > > traces of it seemed to be gone, the system was unstable for a few days.
    > > > In desperation, I reformatted my hard disk and reinstalled everything
    > > > (except OSX). It's been fine since (only a couple of crashes a month).
    > > > Anyway, I want to "tread lightly," knowing that I'll probably have to
    > > > sucb to OSX one day. It looks great, and I know that it's an
    > > > improvement (over OS9) in many ways, but from what I gather from people
    > > > here, when something goes wrong, the fixit remedies are totally
    > > > different from the way they've always been. With OS9, I can look at my
    > > > System Folder and understand it, and fix the problem myself
    > > > (occasionally needing help from another Mac user). The OSX system files
    > > > look more like Windows files--with cryptic names. From the sound of some
    > > > of the discussions about OSX here, you almost have to be a computer
    > > > programmer to fix an OSX problem. The reason I got hooked on Macs (in
    > > > 1989) is because non-geeks could maintain them and figure things out
    > > > intuitively.
    > >
    > > If you have the disk space, then install Mac OS X on a separate
    > > partition _AND_ _ALSO_ install a separate Mac OS 9.2.2 that is only to
    > > be used as the Classic environment for Mac OS X.
    > >
    > > Now _ONLY_ add in Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels that are
    > > absolutely necessary to use your Mac OS 9 applications (you may even
    > > need to re-install on the special Classic Mac OS 9 some Apps if they
    > > store things in the system folder.
    > >
    > > The general idea is that Mac OS 9 has tended to aculate a lot of
    > > extensions and drivers over the years, some of which are no longer being
    > > used because you never kept the product or you no longer use that
    > > external printer/disk/scanner/modem/etc... any longer.
    > >
    > > While I still use Classic apps (like this news reader I'm writing this
    > > reply with), I do not use too many. But for the most part, I do not
    > > have problems with Classic Apps.
    > >
    > > Another thing to try. If an App crashes, consider removing it
    > > preferences file and starting clean. Slightly corrupted preference
    > > files have cause Apps to crash in the past, so it is worth a try.
    > >
    > > If Mac OS X is crashing a lot, then I would suspect hardware that is not
    > > behaving. For example, Mac OS X is less forgiving of some 3rd party
    > > memory cards. The disk drivers may push the disk a little harder, etc...
    > >
    > >
    > > Good luck. And take as much time as you need to make the decision on
    > > switching to Mac OS X.
    > > Bob Harris
    >
    > Thanks--I'll heed your advice. When you say, "Also install a separate
    > Mac OS 9.2.2for Classic," do you mean I'll have two instances of OS9 on
    > my machine? Or by "separate" do you mean "separate partition?"
    If possible, have a separate partition (or external disk).

    Install Mac OS X on separate partition
    Install Mac OS 9.2.2 the same separate partition.

    So now you have Mac OS X and a very clean Mac OS 9 on the same bootable
    partition.

    It is possible to have 2 Mac OS 9 System Folders on the same partition,
    but only 1 of them can be the "Blessed" System Folder. Under Mac OS 9,
    draging the System file or the Finder file out of and back into the
    System Folder will bless that System Folder. There are other ways, but
    that is a simple way to do it. A one time I had about 4 or 5 different
    systems on the same disk (each a different version). I would remove the
    Finder from all but one of the system folders so that only one was
    blessed at a time. When I needed to boot a different version of the Mac
    OS for testing something, I would remove the Finder from the current
    active system folder and drag the correct Finder back to the system
    folder of the version I wanted to boot.

    It has been a while, but I think there is a Mac OS 9 installer option
    that allows you to install a new system on an existing disk into a new
    system folder. I forget if the old system folder is rename, or what.

    Another way to do this is to just pull the Finder out of the current
    system folder and rename the current system folder to something else,
    then using your installer CD, install a new system. It should ignore
    the renamed system folder since it has a different name and because the
    removal of the Finder would have "Unblessed" the folder so it would not
    be found based on boot block information.

    Now once you have 2 Mac OS 9 system folders, you might be able to put
    both finders back in the system folders (last one in should bless that
    system folder (only one system folder may be blessed). What I am unsure
    of is if Mac OS X would be able to find both system folders on the same
    disk or if it would only find the blessed system folder, and if you
    decide to use this hack, how much difficulty would it be to switch back
    by playing blessing games. In other words, it might get really old very
    fast if you need to switch back and fort a lot. A separate partition
    for the Mac OS X/Classic system pair, and a separate partition for your
    existing Mac OS 9 system might be a bit easier to live with.

    Once you decide how you want to go and you get stuff installed,...

    Boot Mac OS X. Using the Mac OS X "Classic" preferences, specify which
    version of Mac OS 9 should be started as the Classic environment. You
    will select the one on the same partition as Mac OS X.

    Now either re-install only those applications that want to put stuff in
    the system folder, or copy over the minimum application files from the
    old System Folder to the Mac OS 9 system folder that is going to act as
    your Classic environment. Remember you are trying to avoid copying
    everything over so that if there are some extensions/control panels,
    other that might be causing problems you don't bring them over.

    Very selectivily you may decide to copy over some preferences for
    applications that have complex pref's setups that would be very
    difficult to just redo them.

    Applications that do not need stuff in the System Folder do _NOT_ need
    to be re-installed. They should work fine in the Classic environment
    without any special installation work.

    One more thing. If you think you will be moving towards Mac OS X, you
    might decide to put your current Mac OS 9 system in a smaller (just
    large enough) partition and give the bulk of your disk space over to the
    Mac OS X/Classic and your applications and data. Mac OS X likes lots of
    disk space. Just a thought. Of course if you have an external disk (or
    second internal disk), that would make life a little easier.

    Bob Harris
    Bob Harris Guest

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