Pantones for PDF

[littlez@adobeforums.com]

do you need to make pantones into cmyk before making a pdf? I know you have to in Quark, but I'm not sure about InDesign.

[Bob Levine]

Depends on how it's being printed. If it's going to be process, why are
you using spot colors to begin with?

Bob

[littlez@adobeforums.com]

some of the projects are done with spot and others are done with pantones, so they are basically in the file. I thought when you made a pdf, it made it into process and didn't have to change in the file. this run is being digitally printed, so I thought a pdf was fine.

[Bob Levine]

Open the ink manager and select all spots to process. Be prepared for
unpleasant surprises depending up the colors being converted.

Bob

[Richard_Sohanchyk@adobeforums.com]

What Bob said. If you haven't already done so, spend $119 and get a pantone to process book. Some colors work when coverted. A lot don't.

[edit] Pantone now calls solid to process "color bridge".

Pantone solid to process <http://pantone.com/products/products.asp?idSubArea=0&idArea=1&showNav=25&idPro duct=304>

[Larry_Grohman@adobeforums.com]

Since this will be digitally printed, you might talk with the printer. Many
of the newer digital output devices have wider color gamuts then tradition
wet presses, and some of these RIPs have built in Pantone conversion tables
that match up spot colors with amazing accuracy.

FWIW, for things we print digital, I always request pictures in RGB (tagged)
and spots as spots.

Larry

[Dov Isaacs]

Actually, in my experience at Adobe, the WORST thing you can do for spot-to-process conversion is to "let the RIP" convert the colors from a lookup table. Better to let either InDesign or Acrobat convert the spots to LaB (per my previous post). In that manner, the RIP can directly take advantage of any wider gamut the digital print device has without encountering some of the limitations of the Pantone table lookup hackery.

Why?

Two reasons:

(1) A good number of RIPs with Pantone lookup capabilities can only deal with such spot colors in text and vector, not in images. When flattening transparency that includes spot colors, the resultant raster spot colors are not so-specially table-converted whereas the remaining text and vector colors are ... resulting in color mismatches within a page!

(2) The lookup tables may not represent the same Pantone definitions that you composed the document with. If you use the alternate LaB values in the InDesign Ink Manager, you avoid the merry goround of Pantone color definition changes. You print with the exact values (expressed in LaB) as you composed and did the layout with!

- Dov

[Jeffrey_Smith@adobeforums.com]

Dov, My experience has been the exact opposite. I have experimented with various DFEs/RIPs for digital presses and contract proofing devices and each of these devices have had great success simulating spot colors via their own color conversion tables.

[Larry_Grohman@adobeforums.com]

Thanks Dov. The point I was making to the OP was that in many digital
workflow, you really should not be concerned if there are spots in the file
or not. They are going to get converted to process somehow. Application or
RIP, and asking the printer how they want a file is always a good idea.

You find when you do this for a while (work on matchting customers spot
colors in a digital output workflow, that is) that you have to keep all
options open. I've found that most time, spot conversions done at the RIP
level (along with Fiery's Spot-On Color modual) are almost perfect.
Occasionally, we need to tweak it a bit using Spot-on, and once in awhile we
go back to the application. With a file pre-converted we would be limited.

Larry

[Dov Isaacs]

As I indicated there are areas which do cause failures, one being mutiple and/or changed Pantone definitions that aren't properly reconciled by such RIPs and the other being the inability of some major brand-name RIPs to apply those lookup tables to raster data. Spot raster data can easily occur when transparency is flattened!

- Dov

[rob_day@adobeforums.com]

Given their commitment to color management it's curious that Adobe continues to offer the CMYK defined solid ink colors with ID and Illustrator, while PS has been doing it correctly (Lab) for at least 3 versions. Coated Reflex Blue can be accurately defined as 19|32|-72 Lab while the 100|73|0|2 CMYK build has little relationship to Reflex Blue on any output device.

Offering CMYK builds for solid spot colors simply encourages designers to continue the questionable practice of using a solid ink system as a reference point for CMYK jobs.

Rob