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"Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network) - Mac Networking

I really hope someone can help, because this is doing my head in. I have a G4 Cube and an iBook, networked via a wireless router (Netgear). The Cube runs 10.2.8, and the iBook runs 10.3.3. And until today, it all worked fine. Then I scrubbed the G4 and reinstalled all software (needed to change username)... Now if I select "connect to server" on *either* machine, they can see each other on the local network, but when I get to the dialogue box that asks for name and password, I get a rejection saying: (if connecting from G4, OS 10.2.8): ...

  1. #1

    Default "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    I really hope someone can help, because this is doing my head in.

    I have a G4 Cube and an iBook, networked via a wireless router
    (Netgear). The Cube runs 10.2.8, and the iBook runs 10.3.3. And until
    today, it all worked fine. Then I scrubbed the G4 and reinstalled all
    software (needed to change username)...

    Now if I select "connect to server" on *either* machine, they can see
    each other on the local network, but when I get to the dialogue box that
    asks for name and password, I get a rejection saying:

    (if connecting from G4, OS 10.2.8): "Unknown user, incorrect password,
    or log on is disabled"

    (if connecting from iBook, OS 10.3.3): "Incorrect password"


    But:

    a) in each case, the username is the same as the Computer Name *and*
    Rendezvous Name in the File Sharing prefs panel, *and* the Name in the
    Accounts prefs panel

    b) the password is *not* incorrect

    Am I doing something dumb? Most likely. but what?

    Richard

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    Richard Burke <com> wrote:
     

    Actually, this dialog might well mean they aren't seeing each other in
    the first place. Forget the password issue and just try to establish any
    kind of communication between the two machines (for example, run
    SubEthaEdit on both machines and see if they discover each other over
    Rendezvous). Also, consider that your IP numbers may have changed, so
    learn what the router thinks they are and try connecting using IP
    number. m.

    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    AppleScript: The Definitive Guide
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    > Actually, this dialog might well mean they aren't seeing each other in 

    Good ideas Matt - but I've tried them! I used the router's listed IP
    addresses (which match with the ones each machine has listed for itself
    in network prefs).

    a) I used network utility to ping the other machine - perfect result.

    b) I tried putting the IP address into the "connect to" dialogue - same
    result - invalid password, etc.

    Thanks, though. Any other suggestions?

    (That creaking sound is my head about to explode...)

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    Richard Burke <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > Good ideas Matt - but I've tried them! I used the router's listed IP
    > addresses (which match with the ones each machine has listed for itself
    > in network prefs).
    >
    > a) I used network utility to ping the other machine - perfect result.
    >
    > b) I tried putting the IP address into the "connect to" dialogue - same
    > result - invalid password, etc.
    >
    > Thanks, though. Any other suggestions?[/ref]

    Yes - grasping at straws here...

    (1) Make sure the keychain is not getting in your way. Use Keychain
    Access to see if the password is stored there. If it is, delete it
    (since it has changed).

    (2) Take the router out of the picture. Connect the two computers
    directly to one another. (Thanks to the iBook this should work even if
    you do not have a crossover cable.) Create brand new Locations and
    Ethernet settings on both computers. Assign them IP numbers manually
    (10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2 will do). Turn on file sharing on one machine.
    Now try it.

    m.



    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    AppleScript: The Definitive Guide
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    Richard Burke wrote:
     

    back to this later...
     

    "The name in the Accounts prefs panel" - I assume you are refering to
    the long name for the account, and that it matches the short name? If
    not, have you tried logging in with the short name?
     

    Basic steps, as I understand them:
    In Sharing prefs, turn on Personal File Sharing on one or both of the
    machines.
    In Directory Access (/Applications/Utilities/Directory Access), make
    sure Rendezvous is checked and none of the others are, unless you make
    use of them. You usually don't need them outside of a more complex
    network environment, such as Apple's Open Directory, Novell's
    eDirectory, or Microsoft's Active Directory (all LDAP-based services, I
    believe). For simple peer-to-peer networking, Rendezvous is sufficient.
    It might help to specify the protocol in the Connect to Server...
    dialog, for example afp://127.0.0.1 instead of 127.0.0.1
    Have you tried creating a new account and using that to log in?
    By chance, are the short names of the accounts on each machine the same?
    I'm not certain that would cause confusion, but I'm not certain it
    couldn't.

    Hope some of that might help.

    Now, if you are not too exasperated at this point, can I ask you why it
    was necessary to reinstall the OS in order to change the user name?

    --
    Adam
    Adam Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    Adam Wuellner wrote:
     

    No, they are different. And yes, I have tried both. No joy.

    (BTW, I can log on as guest. It's just the user/pw combo that causes
    trouble. Useful info?)
     

    Adam, that's really helpful advice - but, alas, it doesn't work!

    - personal file sharing is on.
    - I tried the directory access trick (nice one!). No joy.
    - short names on the machines are different - this, BTW, was why I was
    trying to change the name on the cube in the first place. Having them
    the same never caused problems for the network, but it did cause trouble
    for my poor brain - I could never work out which direction I was
    transferring files...

    Thanks, though, very much. Other ideas?
     

    Sure. I started out by following Apples own advice (article no. 106824)
    - create a new user, transfer the files and privileges, then delete the
    old user. Their step-by-step had a glitch in it. Thinking about it, this
    could be important...

    It tells you to rename the old keychain file in /library/ from <olduser>
    to <newuser>. Well, following their instructions, when I got there I had
    <olduser> _and_ <newuser>! I tried deleting <newuser> and then renaming
    <olduser>. No joy. I tried just using <newuser> and writing in the
    passwords again from scratch. No joy.

    Then I discovered I could n o longer launch Safari. the little arrow
    flickered in the dock, and then nothing happened.

    Rather than revert to my previous user - which I wanted changed anyway -
    and because the Cube's stuffed full of old prefs and things I never use,
    I started up from my instal disk, erased the disk and started over with
    the long and short names I wanted. Seemed simpler than going back and
    starting again with a procedure that was clearly unreliable.

    So. That's why. Dumb, huh? But i erased the disk, so I can't understand
    why the keychain confusion should have carried over. which means it's
    something new... but I don't know what...

    (Head gives another dangerous creak...)

    :-/

    Thanks, though.

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    > (1) Make sure the keychain is not getting in your way. Use Keychain 

    I'll try these right now, Matt. watch this space...

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    matt neuburg wrote:
     

    Password not stored there - because with the new name / system install,
    the password never worked! have deleted all potentially relevant
    entries. No joy.
     

    Done. Weird result.

    I tried two separate ethernet cables (one crossover, one
    computer-to-router), and manual IP addresses - and the machines couldn't
    see each other at all. Used Network Utility to ping the addresses -
    nothing.

    Put the router back in, switched back to DHCP to choose the IP addresses
    - and they ping fine, both on ethernet and wireless.

    So, on a direct connection, nada. through the router, something, but not
    much. As I mentioned in my reply to Adam, I can log on as Guest fine.
    It's the name / password combo that's causing problems. But I don't know
    what else to try.

    (Another dangerous creak...)

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    Richard Burke <com> wrote:
     

    Sorry - I didn't see that, or I wouldn't have suggested you go round the
    Horn like that. Okay, I've got a whole new suggestion: on one of the
    machines (maybe both), make a new user - it costs you nothing to try
    this, since it only takes a second to do it, and a clean empty user
    takes up very little hard disk space. Log in as the clean user on both
    machines. Now try to do file sharing. If that works, perhaps the
    simplest solution would be to migrate into that user on both machines.

    I had to do exactly this after migrating to Panther. The problem was
    partly that permissions were ed up, and partly that something weird
    had happened with the numbering of users; and rather than trying to
    track down the issue it was easiest to make a new admin user and migrate
    everything into that user. I had to do this on both my machines before
    they saw each other happily.

    m.

    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    AppleScript: The Definitive Guide
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    (matt neuburg) wrote:
     
    >
    > Sorry - I didn't see that, or I wouldn't have suggested you go round the
    > Horn like that. Okay, I've got a whole new suggestion: on one of the
    > machines (maybe both), make a new user - it costs you nothing to try
    > this, since it only takes a second to do it, and a clean empty user
    > takes up very little hard disk space. Log in as the clean user on both
    > machines. Now try to do file sharing. If that works, perhaps the
    > simplest solution would be to migrate into that user on both machines.
    >
    > I had to do exactly this after migrating to Panther. The problem was
    > partly that permissions were ed up, and partly that something weird
    > had happened with the numbering of users; and rather than trying to
    > track down the issue it was easiest to make a new admin user and migrate
    > everything into that user. I had to do this on both my machines before
    > they saw each other happily.
    >
    > m.[/ref]

    Hi Matt. I think you could be right. Certainly itr costs nothing to try.
    I won't be abloe to check this now until Mon, possibly Tues, because I'm
    away for the weekend. but watch this space (if you can bear to be that
    patient), and I'll post results as they arise...

    You guys have been really helpful. Thank you.

    R
    Richard Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: "Password incorrect" - but it's not! (2-Mac network)

    > Okay, I've got a whole new suggestion: on one of the 

    Hi Matt,

    I tried this, this morning. no dice! Aaargh! Any other thoughts, anyone?
    This one has me really flummoxed.

    All the best,

    Richard

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  12. #12

    Default More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Hi folks. All your suggestions when I posted this a few days ago were
    really useful - though sadly, none of them worked. But I was away over
    the Easter weekend - and though I posted a request for any more ideas, I
    suspect folk had killed the thread through lack of activity for 4 days...

    Still, as I said, nothing so far has worked - including creating totally
    new users on both machines. so I'd be really grateful if any of you
    could help me with any more ideas.

    Rather than restate the whole problem, I'll let folks look in the other
    thread for details. In a nutshell, though, I have two 'networked' macs
    running OSX 10.2.8 and 10.3.3 - and they can see each other, and I can
    log on to either machine as 'Guest' - but they tell me I have an invalid
    password when i try to log on as a registered user - and I *don't* have
    an invalid password!

    eeek! help! going mad!

    TIA,

    Richard

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Richard Burke wrote:
     

    Looking back through the thread, I don't find anything that says you
    tried fixing the permissions on the disks. It sounds like a long shot,
    especially considering the new OS on an erased disk, but it's worth a shot.

    After that, restart the machines just for kicks. Now, no one can tell
    you to run Fix Permissions because you've already done that. :)

    OK, if that doesn't miraculously cure the problem, turn on "Remote
    Login" in the Sharing preference pane. This will open an alternate
    method for authenticating against the same user records that Personal
    File Sharing uses, but over a different protocol, which is why I think
    it might be an enlightening exercise. With Remote Login turned on on
    either machine, open Terminal on the other one. At the prompt (which
    usually ends in a $ sign), type:
    ssh local
    Where 'user' is the user name on the remote machine, and 'machine' is
    the Rendevouz name. Put in the .local after the machine name to ensure
    that it will look first in Rendevouz domain.
    If this is the first time you have logged in via SSH (Secure SHell,
    btw), you may be asked to add an RSA key for the found machine. Type
    'yes' to continue. (Btw, if this is not new to you, forgive the
    long-winded explanation.)
    You should get asked for the password. If it works... well, I don't
    know what this is going to tell us exactly. But we're finding something
    new out, eh?
    Type 'exit' to close the SSH session. Command-Q to quit terminal.
    Adam Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Adam Wuellner wrote:
     

    Hold up. That might be a waste of time - we know you can log in to the
    machine locally with the same username/password that fails over afp...
    finding out that it works or doesn't over ssh probably isn't that
    helpful. hmmm...
    Adam Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Adam Wuellner wrote:
     

    Done. No joy.
     

    Ok, I tried this, despite your subsequent post saying not to bother (do
    I sound desperate? I am!). It works. I can log in remotely. Like you,
    I'm not quite sure what that tells us, though!

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Richard Burke wrote: 
    >
    >
    > Ok, I tried this, despite your subsequent post saying not to bother (do
    > I sound desperate? I am!). It works. I can log in remotely. Like you,
    > I'm not quite sure what that tells us, though![/ref]

    Well, I guess it tells us the Personal File Sharing is either blocked or
    broken. Do you have the firewall up on either machine?
    (System Preferences -> Sharing -> Firewall)
    If so, make sure Personal File Sharing (first item) is checked, so that
    it's allowed.
    If the firewall is off or already properly configured, I guess I'd be at
    the point where another OS reinstall started looking like a reasonable
    measure. Maybe someone else has another suggestion...

    Keep us posted.

    Adam
    Adam Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Adam Wuellner wrote:
     
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Ok, I tried this, despite your subsequent post saying not to bother
    >> (do I sound desperate? I am!). It works. I can log in remotely. Like
    >> you, I'm not quite sure what that tells us, though![/ref]
    >
    >
    > Well, I guess it tells us the Personal File Sharing is either blocked or
    > broken. Do you have the firewall up on either machine?
    > (System Preferences -> Sharing -> Firewall)
    > If so, make sure Personal File Sharing (first item) is checked, so that
    > it's allowed.
    > If the firewall is off or already properly configured, I guess I'd be at
    > the point where another OS reinstall started looking like a reasonable
    > measure. Maybe someone else has another suggestion...[/ref]

    Just poked around a bit more, and it turns out that turning on Personal
    File Sharing will automatically configure the firewall to allow it - if
    you see anything funny going on in there, that might be further evidence
    that the system is ed.
     
    Adam Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    > > Well, I guess it tells us the Personal File Sharing is either blocked or 
    >
    > Just poked around a bit more, and it turns out that turning on Personal
    > File Sharing will automatically configure the firewall to allow it - if
    > you see anything funny going on in there, that might be further evidence
    > that the system is ed.[/ref]

    File sharing is on, on both machines; the firewall is off, but the 'file
    sharing' box is ticked automatically because it's ticked in the sharing
    panel. Adam, you have brilliant ideas, thank you. It's such a shame that
    none of them worked!

    Ok. I think it's safe to assume the problem is on the Cube running
    10.2.8, because that's the machine i changed. Following advice on
    comp.sys.mac.system that it's Ok to do this, I'll try installing Panther.

    Do you have any advice on how make sure that i inherit absolutely *no*
    settings from the existing system? I'd hate to have to wipe the disk
    again - reinstall everything, transfer Gigs of files... But I'll do it
    if that's what it takes.

    Thanks again,

    Richard

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    Richard Burke wrote:
     

    Not so brilliant, then, I'm afraid. :-/
     

    Yes, that's probably a good idea anyway - Panther has been much better
    to me than even the 10.2.8 flavor of Jaguar was. Faster and more stable.
     

    Grab a firewire cable, boot the iBook in target disk mode (hold down T
    on boot-up), and connect it via FW to the cube. It should mount the
    volume on the cube's desktop, and the firewire connection will handle
    gigs in relatively short order. Back up your home directory, and
    anything else you think you might need.

    Now, eject the FW volume from the cube, and shutdown both machines.
    Pull the firewire cord from the iBook. This time, boot the cube into
    target disk mode (hold T), and boot the iBook normally. Reattach the
    cable to the iBook. Things are now reversed.

    Using Disk Utility on the iBook, you should be able to wipe the cube's
    HD and run diagnostics on it. If you have Disk Warrior, now would be a
    good time to use it. When your satified that you've got a nice, clean
    starting point, eject the cube's HD from the iBook, disconnect the
    cable, insert the Panther install disk 1, and reboot from the CD (hold
    C). NOTE: It would be prudent to make sure you can open/close the
    optical drive of the cube during target disk mode BEFORE erasing the HD.
    If you cannot, insert the Panther CD before booting in Target disk
    mode, so you can boot from the CD once the HD is clean.

    Once the system is installed, run Software Update to get up to 10.3.3,
    and patch any apps that you rely on.

    See if Personal File Sharing works, at this point.

    If yes: Boot that iBook into target disk mode again, and mount it on the
    cube. In this manner, permission and ownership information of the files
    on the iBook are irrelevant - the files that you copy back onto the cube
    will inherent the owner and group of the user that executes those copy
    operations. That is why it is important to 'pull' the files off the
    iBook from the cube, rather than 'pushing' them into the cube from the
    iBook.

    I would not bother trying to re-use any of the stuff in your old user's
    Library - which includes user preferences - to avoid conflicts with
    updated system software and applications. Other directories should be
    ok, though, such as Doents, Music, Movies, etc. i-applications that
    build their own databases of your files, such as iPhoto and iTunes, will
    need to find the appropriate media files and rebuild those databases.
    Refer to the doentation available for doing that.

    You might want to save some time, as you said, by not erasing the HD.
    If you want to try it that way, make sure you select Archive & Install
    from the options during the Panther installation. Do NOT do the
    'Update' option - Apple's own trainers strongly advise against using
    that upgrade path. Archive & Install is preferred because it inherits
    none of the old system, which is moved to a folder called "Previous
    Systems" at the root of your hard drive. And brand-spankin-new System
    folder is created and populated with the necessary files from the CD.
    You have the option of retaining the current set of users, which may go
    smoothly, or not. I prefer the erase & install approach outlined in the
    previous paragraphs because it eliminates more variables.

    hope this helps,

    Adam
    Adam Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: More help needed! (was "Password incorrect")

    > hope this helps,

    Greatly. Wish me luck!

    R

    richard dot bw at btinternet dot com
    Richard Guest

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