Photoshop Picture Packages

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

I have been putting together packages using this feature in Photoshop 6 on a Mac. The only problem I run into is that my images are not coming out the size they are suppose to. For example, it has an option for (4)4x5 images to go on one page. Once I choose this option and Photoshop goes through the process of putting all the images together, my images on screen and printing come out to be 3x5. It not only happen with this particular one. It happens with all of them. It is cutting off about an inch from either my x or y position, it varies as to which one it does. If anyone has any suggestions or knows how to change the margin or whatever, I am in dire need to find out.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

What are the actual dimensions of your images in pixels? Unless the pixel ratio (width / height) is exactly 4x5, what you are describing is bound to happen.

It sounds like your images are really 3x5 (say 450 pixels by 750 pixels).

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

The actual dimensions of my image that I am using as an example for this forum is 6312 pixels by 9488 pixels. The document size is 10.52 by 15.813 inches. I have the dimensions so large because I am not only trying to get 4x5 pictures, I am also trying to get 10x13 and a 8x10.

As far as the pixel ratio being exact, how does that effect the process? I am not sure. I have never heard of this.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Civility,

Well, your 6312 x 9488 pixel image has a ratio of approximately 2:3. There's no way you can get 4x5, 8x10 or 10/13 prints from that image without cropping.

In order to get a 4x5 or an 8/10, you have to crop the image to an exact 4:5 ratio; that will work for both 4x5 and 8/10 prints (same 4:5 ratio) . Your image has to be 6312 pixels by 7890 pixels. You have an excess of 1598 pixels in the longest dimension. Either you crop your image yourself to be exactly 6312x7890, or the application has to crop the image for you without your having any control over it.

There's no way Photoshop or any other program can place a 2:3 image in a frame meant to accommodate a 4:5 image. It's simple math.

You are much closer to your 11x17" print, as that requires a 2:3.09 ratio. This time you need to crop in the other direction, to end up with an image that is 6139 pixels by 9488 pixels.

It works the same when enlarging film negatives or when printing digital images. The ratio of the dimensions of the image dictates the size ratio of the print that can be obtained without cropping one of the sides.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

By the way, a 4x6 print of your sample image would end up being cropped only minimally, to 6312 pixels by 9468 pixels. You would lose only 20 pixels in the long dimension.

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

Okay, I have been trying to figure out and grasp everything you said. I can't believe that I went to college for this type of stuff and have never heard of any of this. Basically, what you are saying is, if I know the resolution needed/wanted and know what print/document size, I can figure out the pixel dimension; And if I know the pixel dimensions, I can figure out the ratio of that print/document size, and once I figure that out, I can figure out what prints I can get from the same ratio. Is this right? I figured out how to get everything, but I was wondering if there is a simple formula that can be used or all the mutiple steps necessary? I appreciate your help in this matter. Just wondering, you don't have to say, how did you know all of this? Do you work with photography or graphic design or any related field? Beside that, thank you again for your help. I have learned a lot. It is a shame that it took this for me to have to figure all of this out, but then again, it is a good thing, because I could have continued to not know. Thanks so much for your help.

Oh just one more thing, if I understand all of this correctly, Is there a way that I could get (1)5X7 and (4)3x5 on one sheet of paper with using the same dimensions? I know I am asking a lot, but I just want to make sure. Thanks for your help.

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

If I have this figured out correctly, I will not be able to get those on one sheet of paper using the same resolution, Right?

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

Okay, as far as my last message, I changed the resolution and it is still the same ratio. So no matter what, the ratio will stay the same, Right?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Civility,

If you really "have never heard of any of this", you need to take it one step at a time.

It's not that complicated. On the other hand, it is pretty basic, not just for someone familiar with photography but for anyone with a modest knowledge of arithmetic and a willingness to think about it for a second.

Before you start putting several images on a single sheet of paper, try printing a single 4x5 image of your 6312 pixel by x 9488 pixel image. Open your image in Photoshop; get the Rectangular Marquee tool (M) and make sure the tool's Style is set to "Fixed Aspect Ratio" in the Options bar (not to "Normal", and not "Fixed Size"). Set it to 4 x 5 (just 4 x 5, not inches or pixels, just the ratio).

Now use the Rectangular Marquee Tool to crop your picture to that precise 4x5 aspect ratio. No need to calculate anything, the tool will automatically expand in a 4x5 ratio as you drag across your image, no matter what.

Once you have a selection of your image you like, let go of the tool and go to your Image menu and select Crop. The cropped image is now ready; hit Command D to deselect the marching ants. Now go to the File menu again and go to Image Size > Document Size. Once there, make sure the Resample image is NOT checked and set the Width to 4 inches and the Height to 5 inches. Click on OK.

You now have an image that is exactly 4x5 inches; its resolution will have been automatically determined by the process you went through.

Now you can print a proper 4x5 image, and when you cropped you realized what fits and what doesn't fit into a frame of these proportions.

You shouldn't have to go college or even high school to grasp this. Think what happens when someone hands you a 4x6 photo and you have to put it inside a 4x5 frame you buy at the drugstore. You're just going to have to crop it; i. e. you need to cut it down to size.

If you still have trouble understanding this, you need to do a lot of reading on photography and on Photoshop before you can work in the program or in the field.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

I changed the resolution and it is still the same ratio. So no matter
what, the ratio will stay the same, Right?




Right! You need to CROP the image!

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Civility,

Let me repeat the first paragraph of my post #3:

Well, your 6312 x 9488 pixel image has a ratio of approximately 2:3. There's no way you can get 4x5, 8x10 or 10/13 prints from that image without cropping.

[Emphasis added]

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Is there a way that I could get (1)5X7 and (4)3x5 on one sheet of paper
with using the same dimensions?




No.

Not without cropping, losing part of the image, or getting white bands on two parallel sides of the four sides of the image.

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

I know that a image has to be cropped and has to be the exact size in order to work. I didn't understand all the ratio aspects you were throwing into the equation. That is what I had never heard. The process you explained, I was never shown, nor is it in any of my photography books I have read. I understand and know the concept of the image have to be the right size or it is going to have to cropped. What threw me off was the fact that the picture package option does not do this for you, it should know the ratio or should I say document size you are wanting of a image if that is what you choose from the menu. As far as my last question, "Is there a way that I could get (1)5X7 and (4)3x5 on one sheet of paper with using the same dimensions"? I figured the answer was NO, but I wanted to make sure. That is one of the options under the picture package menu. That is what I found so "funny". They offer you a package, but you really can't get it using the same image. I do know though how to choose different images for the sizes, I read that in one of my books .
So, so long, and thank you for your help.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

From post # 3:

There's no way Photoshop or any other program can place a 2:3 image in a frame meant to accommodate a 4:5 image. It's simple math.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

That is what I found so "funny". They offer you a package, but you really
can't get it using the same image.





What threw me off was the fact that the picture package option does not
do this for you, it should know the ratio or should I say document size
you are wanting of a image if that is what you choose from the menu.




Well, the application is doing what it can for you. As you wrote in your original post:

The only problem I run into is that my images are not coming out the size
they are suppose to. For example, it has an option for (4)4x5 images to
go on one page. Once I choose this option and Photoshop goes through the
process of putting all the images together, my images on screen and printing
come out to be 3x5.




[Emphasis mine]

That is expected and appropriate performance.

[halscheyer@adobeforums.com]

You need to develop a "work flow". First, you do a "save as" and change the file to a PSD with maybe a new name. Then you do all your work on the new file and never touch the original. First thing is "Crop" or "Image Size" and resolution then editing. I never crop or edit the first PSD either. I work on it and then do a "Save As" again. You may end up with several files of the same image - a 5x7 called Name05, an 8x10 called Name08, a small JPEG for the web called NameW, a file with text called NameT and so on. I do not always use PS for printing. If I don't like the way it is set up I may use another program like "Greeting Card Factory" which will let me put pix in any way or size I want to and mix them up with text or whatever. Hang in there! Adobe PS has a steep learning curve, but it is worth it! There are some good books available also.

[Allen_Wicks@adobeforums.com]

Civility-

The Photoshop Picture Package ("PPP") feature is an automated one. PS takes the image and then force fits it into the various standard photo sizes shown and based on the printer and page sizes you specify. PS does not crop for you; it will just add white space on one dimension to make any size of image you present to it fit into the standard sizes you choose. Since there are so many variables and PS is automating your decisions for you, generally you should NOT expect precision or accuracy. Accuracy can be achieved, but it may not be worth your trouble to try to force an automatic process to suit your precise layout needs.

Instead, for accuracy make a new blank/empty PS document of the same ppi as your images (typically 300 ppi) and of total dimensions the size you are printing at (e.g. 8.5x11). You should then do a Save As multiple times with new naming of these blank pages depending upon how many 8.5x11 pages you intend to print.

Next crop and size (Image/Image Size) each individual image as you see fit. After completing such editing individually copy each image and paste it on to the 8.5x11 pages you made in the previous paragraph. Your prints will now be accurate to the sizes you created them - but not automated.

I use PPP constantly, always choosing two 5x7 prints on an arbitary 8x10 page size to allow for printer margins on 8.5x11 inkjet photo paper. By cropping to *approximate* 5x7 proportions PS creates 5x7 prints but with some white space on one dimension that I just trim off when I cut the final. Such prints after cutting are NOT exactly 5x7, but after lots of practice my eyeball crops are usually very close. If you want exact 5x7 prints automated you should use the technique Ramon described.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

Allen,

The workflow described in your last paragraph is what Civility Bowling was doing, as per the original post in the thread. S/He was not happy with the results and couldn't understand why her/his pictures were coming out 3x5 instead of 4x5.

Something tells me that the other workflow you suggest will be even less to her/his liking. :)

This thread reminds me of a good friend who was disappointed with a new zoom lens he bought because the lens didn't have the smarts to choose the optimum focal length all by itself. After all, it was supposed to be a fully automatic lens, so it should automatically decide to zoom in on only one of the two leopards in the zoo exhibit. 8/

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

Allen:

Thank you for your suggestion. I have used this process before and this is what I have gone back to. I was trying out other feautures in Photoshop and got frustrated with the automation of picture packages, especially after learning the underlying effects. I thought, but now have learn it was not what I thought it was. As to Ramon's response of your process being less of a liking to me, I prefer the process you mentioned. It is what I am use to and will stick to. Ramon's advice did teach me a new process and like mentioned, I now know how to get exact sizes.

[civility_bowling@adobeforums.com]

To All:

Thank you all for your help in this matter. Although some has taken me as an idot, I am thankful for the processes and advice I have gotten. Thank you for all of your help.