Photoshop print size changes? 4x6 to 8x12

[Zappy]

I am cropping for composition reasons. I have just read up abit more on the
crop and rectangular marque tool. What are the steps to get an image ready
for print.

1. Use rectangular marque tool to select wanted image area, so as to not
change resolution (180 pixels/inch from camera). Then crop image to change
image and canvas size.

or

2. Use Image size to change resolution from 180 pixels/inch to 300
pixels/inch and then crop to change image size.

Still not too sure what to do. Thanks Scott for that tip on resizing down
rather than up. What do I do if the original image resolution is 180
pixels/inch. I would like to be 300 for print purposes.

I have recently just tried a test print with the kodak print online. Send
your image to the kodak online site, they print it out and send to your
nearest kodak outlet for you to pick up and pay. $0.80 per 4x6 site stated a
4 day service but my print didn't turn up for 7 days (maybe due to weekend).
Quality is very good, colours turned out good too, no more having your film
images colour corrected by the machine set on auto.

Smiths kodak are also having a special on at the moment in their brochure.
Half price 4x6 prints from memory cards, maximum for 40 prints until
31/7/03.


"Scott Coutts" <scott.coutts@med.monash.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3F0127DF.1000202@med.monash.edu.au...

>
>
> Zappy wrote:

> > Original image size from camera 1944 x 2592 pixels. 10.8 x 14.4 inches @

180

> > pixels per inch.
> >
> > When I edit images for print, I usually crop to 4x6 inches @ 300 dpi

giving

> > me 1200 x 1800 image size. Then I fix the levels, etc. If I get this

final

> > image printed at 4x6 and I like it.
> >
> > How do I go about getting a 8x12 print from the final edited 4x6 image,
> > without degrading quality. Or am I supposed to crop to 8x12 early on,
> > enhance and the resize to print 4x6. Then if I like the 4x6 print, just

send

> > the 8x12 image to print.
> >

>
> Do you normally print at 180dpi or at 300dpi? I'd change the DPI setting
> to 300.
>
> Are you cropping so that it will fit on a 6x4", or are you cropping for
> composition?
>
> Anyhow, you should crop first for composition to get the image you want.
> Then resize it to get an 8x12. You can take the final image size into
> consideration when you're cropping it. IIf possible, crop so that you
> have 8x12" still at 300dpi. You can get photoshop to draw it's selection
> sqare as an 8x12" size and then you can move it around for the
> composition you want.
>
> Once you have an 8x12 that you like (at 300dpi), resize it to 6x4 with
> the 'image size' menu selection. Check the 'resample' box and choose
> bicubic. That way, you'll have a full resolution 8x12" and 6x4". If you
> make the 6x4" first, then you'll have to resample up to 8x12" and it
> will look softer. Resampling downwards is better than upwards.
>
> So basically, you're last paragraph is right - make two versions. But
> always downsample, if you can, rather than upsample. Therefore, make the
> larger one first, then make a smaller one from that.
>

[Scott Coutts]

Zappy wrote:

> I am cropping for composition reasons. I have just read up abit more on the
> crop and rectangular marque tool. What are the steps to get an image ready
> for print.
>

Of course, the best way is to compose your shot so that you dont need to
crop anything off. THis isnt always possible, of course, but you should
do your best to take some extra time composing the shot. This way, you
dont 'lose' any image information by having to crop parts off. Every
time you crop something off, and your print becomes smaller than the
size of the photo paper, then Photoshop has to scale up so that it once
again fits in a standard photo size. Otherwise, it has to be printed at
a lower dpi... both of these will decrease the apparent sharpness of
your print.

>
> 1. Use rectangular marque tool to select wanted image area, so as to not
> change resolution (180 pixels/inch from camera). Then crop image to change
> image and canvas size.
>
> or
>
> 2. Use Image size to change resolution from 180 pixels/inch to 300
> pixels/inch and then crop to change image size.
>

The only reason that I suggested that you change to 300 is that most
decent photo printers will print at 300 or 400dpi. Usually, 300dpi is
used. If you have a lower dpi for your prints, it means you're
effectively spreading the same image over a larger area. The result is
that you'll have a lower resolution print. It will appear more blurry.

So if you change to 300dpi, the print size that you can make will be
smaller but the resolution of the print will be higher. BUT: when you do
this in photoshop, you need to make sure that the check box called
"resample image" is turned OFF! Then actuall image data will not be
changed. It's just changing the way the printer will output it to the
paper. If you have "resample image" switched on, then you will see that
photoshop will make your print size stay the same whilst increasing the
dpi. So if you change the dpi with "resample" switched off then you
should notice that the number of pixels stays the same, but the print
size varies. If you change the dpi with "resample" switched on, then you
should see the print size stay the same, but the number of pixels will
vary. These extra pixels are 'created' by photoshop in the upsampling
process. Photoshop is 'making up' data to increase your print's image
size. You dont want that because it will make your image look blurry.
This is called upsampling.

So, this isn't to do with cropping your images really, it's just
increasing the resolution of your prints. Change to 300 dpi before you
do anything else to the image - but remember to turn 'resample image' off!

>
> Still not too sure what to do.
>

Well, I'd do the following:

Open your pic off the camera in photoshop
Choose "Image | Image Size..." from the menu
Click "Constrain Proportions" to ON
Click "Resample Image" to OFF
Change the resolution to "300 pixels/inch"

You should see that the number of pixels remains the same, but the print
size should decrease. You've kinda just told the printer to print the
dots 'closer together' so it should look sharper.

Then, make sure the 'info' window is displayed so that you can see the
size of the rectangular marquee that you need to draw. (Menu: Window |
Info".

Draw an 8x12" marquee anywhere on the pic and you can then drag it
around to find where you want your picture cropped. Once you've put it
where you want it, then choose 'crop'.

Now you should have a full-resolution, non-resampled, 300dpi image. By
doing this, you wont have decresed the quality of the image at any stage
since you took it off the camera.

Now you can save the full-res 8x12 cropped version ready for the printer.

Lastly, if you want a 6x4" of the same image, you can choose "Image |
Resize..." and set "Document size" to 6x4". This time, you want
"Resample Image" switched ON. This is because you actually want to make
the image smaller in size (ie get rid of some pixels). Like the example
from before, if you dont have "resample image" on, then when you change
the print size, it will increase the DPI. You can do it this way too,
but it wont help much because anything higher than around 300dpi is
difficult to see.

Now you can save the full-res 6x4" as well.

So the only time a problem arises is when you find the 8x12" cropping
rectangle is bigger than the size of what you want to crop. Then you'll
have to make a smaller rectange of the same ratio as 8x12, and crop to
that. The problem arises here because now your image is too small to fit
on an 8x12 sheet of paper. You have to either upsample your image until
it fits, or decrease the DPI untill it fits. Either way, your print will
look more blurry. It's the digital equivalent (to film) of taking a
smaller sized portion of a negative and blowing it up.

>
> Thanks Scott for that tip on resizing down
> rather than up. What do I do if the original image resolution is 180
> pixels/inch. I would like to be 300 for print purposes.
>

I think I covered that in the previous part (: I should read the whole
post before I start my reply hehehe

>
> I have recently just tried a test print with the kodak print online. Send
> your image to the kodak online site, they print it out and send to your
> nearest kodak outlet for you to pick up and pay. $0.80 per 4x6 site stated a
> 4 day service but my print didn't turn up for 7 days (maybe due to weekend).
> Quality is very good, colours turned out good too, no more having your film
> images colour corrected by the machine set on auto.
>

Yeah, now you're the colour correcting machine (: But if you really want
to be confused, then look up some information on colour space, colour
profiles, colour matching and calibration of your monitor with their
printer (:

> Smiths kodak are also having a special on at the moment in their brochure.
> Half price 4x6 prints from memory cards, maximum for 40 prints until
> 31/7/03.
>
>
> "Scott Coutts" <scott.coutts@med.monash.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3F0127DF.1000202@med.monash.edu.au...
>

>>
>>Zappy wrote:
>>

>>>Original image size from camera 1944 x 2592 pixels. 10.8 x 14.4 inches @

>>

> 180
>

>>>pixels per inch.
>>>
>>>When I edit images for print, I usually crop to 4x6 inches @ 300 dpi

>>

> giving
>

>>>me 1200 x 1800 image size. Then I fix the levels, etc. If I get this

>>

> final
>

>>>image printed at 4x6 and I like it.
>>>
>>>How do I go about getting a 8x12 print from the final edited 4x6 image,
>>>without degrading quality. Or am I supposed to crop to 8x12 early on,
>>>enhance and the resize to print 4x6. Then if I like the 4x6 print, just

>>

> send
>

>>>the 8x12 image to print.
>>>

>>
>>Do you normally print at 180dpi or at 300dpi? I'd change the DPI setting
>>to 300.
>>
>>Are you cropping so that it will fit on a 6x4", or are you cropping for
>>composition?
>>
>>Anyhow, you should crop first for composition to get the image you want.
>>Then resize it to get an 8x12. You can take the final image size into
>>consideration when you're cropping it. IIf possible, crop so that you
>>have 8x12" still at 300dpi. You can get photoshop to draw it's selection
>>sqare as an 8x12" size and then you can move it around for the
>>composition you want.
>>
>>Once you have an 8x12 that you like (at 300dpi), resize it to 6x4 with
>>the 'image size' menu selection. Check the 'resample' box and choose
>>bicubic. That way, you'll have a full resolution 8x12" and 6x4". If you
>>make the 6x4" first, then you'll have to resample up to 8x12" and it
>>will look softer. Resampling downwards is better than upwards.
>>
>>So basically, you're last paragraph is right - make two versions. But
>>always downsample, if you can, rather than upsample. Therefore, make the
>>larger one first, then make a smaller one from that.
>>

>
>
>

[Zappy]

Thanks Scott, that's makes it all clear now.
Now on with the job of making more prints.

"Scott Coutts" <scott.coutts@med.monash.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3F0389FB.1020202@med.monash.edu.au...

>
>
> Zappy wrote:

> > I am cropping for composition reasons. I have just read up abit more on

the

> > crop and rectangular marque tool. What are the steps to get an image

ready

> > for print.
> >

>
> Of course, the best way is to compose your shot so that you dont need to
> crop anything off. THis isnt always possible, of course, but you should
> do your best to take some extra time composing the shot. This way, you
> dont 'lose' any image information by having to crop parts off. Every
> time you crop something off, and your print becomes smaller than the
> size of the photo paper, then Photoshop has to scale up so that it once
> again fits in a standard photo size. Otherwise, it has to be printed at
> a lower dpi... both of these will decrease the apparent sharpness of
> your print.
>

> >
> > 1. Use rectangular marque tool to select wanted image area, so as to not
> > change resolution (180 pixels/inch from camera). Then crop image to

change

> > image and canvas size.
> >
> > or
> >
> > 2. Use Image size to change resolution from 180 pixels/inch to 300
> > pixels/inch and then crop to change image size.
> >

>
> The only reason that I suggested that you change to 300 is that most
> decent photo printers will print at 300 or 400dpi. Usually, 300dpi is
> used. If you have a lower dpi for your prints, it means you're
> effectively spreading the same image over a larger area. The result is
> that you'll have a lower resolution print. It will appear more blurry.
>
> So if you change to 300dpi, the print size that you can make will be
> smaller but the resolution of the print will be higher. BUT: when you do
> this in photoshop, you need to make sure that the check box called
> "resample image" is turned OFF! Then actuall image data will not be
> changed. It's just changing the way the printer will output it to the
> paper. If you have "resample image" switched on, then you will see that
> photoshop will make your print size stay the same whilst increasing the
> dpi. So if you change the dpi with "resample" switched off then you
> should notice that the number of pixels stays the same, but the print
> size varies. If you change the dpi with "resample" switched on, then you
> should see the print size stay the same, but the number of pixels will
> vary. These extra pixels are 'created' by photoshop in the upsampling
> process. Photoshop is 'making up' data to increase your print's image
> size. You dont want that because it will make your image look blurry.
> This is called upsampling.
>
> So, this isn't to do with cropping your images really, it's just
> increasing the resolution of your prints. Change to 300 dpi before you
> do anything else to the image - but remember to turn 'resample image' off!
>

> >
> > Still not too sure what to do.
> >

>
> Well, I'd do the following:
>
> Open your pic off the camera in photoshop
> Choose "Image | Image Size..." from the menu
> Click "Constrain Proportions" to ON
> Click "Resample Image" to OFF
> Change the resolution to "300 pixels/inch"
>
> You should see that the number of pixels remains the same, but the print
> size should decrease. You've kinda just told the printer to print the
> dots 'closer together' so it should look sharper.
>
> Then, make sure the 'info' window is displayed so that you can see the
> size of the rectangular marquee that you need to draw. (Menu: Window |
> Info".
>
> Draw an 8x12" marquee anywhere on the pic and you can then drag it
> around to find where you want your picture cropped. Once you've put it
> where you want it, then choose 'crop'.
>
> Now you should have a full-resolution, non-resampled, 300dpi image. By
> doing this, you wont have decresed the quality of the image at any stage
> since you took it off the camera.
>
> Now you can save the full-res 8x12 cropped version ready for the printer.
>
> Lastly, if you want a 6x4" of the same image, you can choose "Image |
> Resize..." and set "Document size" to 6x4". This time, you want
> "Resample Image" switched ON. This is because you actually want to make
> the image smaller in size (ie get rid of some pixels). Like the example
> from before, if you dont have "resample image" on, then when you change
> the print size, it will increase the DPI. You can do it this way too,
> but it wont help much because anything higher than around 300dpi is
> difficult to see.
>
> Now you can save the full-res 6x4" as well.
>
> So the only time a problem arises is when you find the 8x12" cropping
> rectangle is bigger than the size of what you want to crop. Then you'll
> have to make a smaller rectange of the same ratio as 8x12, and crop to
> that. The problem arises here because now your image is too small to fit
> on an 8x12 sheet of paper. You have to either upsample your image until
> it fits, or decrease the DPI untill it fits. Either way, your print will
> look more blurry. It's the digital equivalent (to film) of taking a
> smaller sized portion of a negative and blowing it up.
>

> >
> > Thanks Scott for that tip on resizing down
> > rather than up. What do I do if the original image resolution is 180
> > pixels/inch. I would like to be 300 for print purposes.
> >

>
> I think I covered that in the previous part (: I should read the whole
> post before I start my reply hehehe
>

> >
> > I have recently just tried a test print with the kodak print online.

Send

> > your image to the kodak online site, they print it out and send to your
> > nearest kodak outlet for you to pick up and pay. $0.80 per 4x6 site

stated a

> > 4 day service but my print didn't turn up for 7 days (maybe due to

weekend).

> > Quality is very good, colours turned out good too, no more having your

film

> > images colour corrected by the machine set on auto.
> >

>
> Yeah, now you're the colour correcting machine (: But if you really want
> to be confused, then look up some information on colour space, colour
> profiles, colour matching and calibration of your monitor with their
> printer (:
>

> > Smiths kodak are also having a special on at the moment in their

brochure.

> > Half price 4x6 prints from memory cards, maximum for 40 prints until
> > 31/7/03.
> >
> >
> > "Scott Coutts" <scott.coutts@med.monash.edu.au> wrote in message
> > news:3F0127DF.1000202@med.monash.edu.au...
> >

> >>
> >>Zappy wrote:
> >>
> >>>Original image size from camera 1944 x 2592 pixels. 10.8 x 14.4 inches

@

> >>

> > 180
> >

> >>>pixels per inch.
> >>>
> >>>When I edit images for print, I usually crop to 4x6 inches @ 300 dpi
> >>

> > giving
> >

> >>>me 1200 x 1800 image size. Then I fix the levels, etc. If I get this
> >>

> > final
> >

> >>>image printed at 4x6 and I like it.
> >>>
> >>>How do I go about getting a 8x12 print from the final edited 4x6 image,
> >>>without degrading quality. Or am I supposed to crop to 8x12 early on,
> >>>enhance and the resize to print 4x6. Then if I like the 4x6 print, just
> >>

> > send
> >

> >>>the 8x12 image to print.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Do you normally print at 180dpi or at 300dpi? I'd change the DPI setting
> >>to 300.
> >>
> >>Are you cropping so that it will fit on a 6x4", or are you cropping for
> >>composition?
> >>
> >>Anyhow, you should crop first for composition to get the image you want.
> >>Then resize it to get an 8x12. You can take the final image size into
> >>consideration when you're cropping it. IIf possible, crop so that you
> >>have 8x12" still at 300dpi. You can get photoshop to draw it's selection
> >>sqare as an 8x12" size and then you can move it around for the
> >>composition you want.
> >>
> >>Once you have an 8x12 that you like (at 300dpi), resize it to 6x4 with
> >>the 'image size' menu selection. Check the 'resample' box and choose
> >>bicubic. That way, you'll have a full resolution 8x12" and 6x4". If you
> >>make the 6x4" first, then you'll have to resample up to 8x12" and it
> >>will look softer. Resampling downwards is better than upwards.
> >>
> >>So basically, you're last paragraph is right - make two versions. But
> >>always downsample, if you can, rather than upsample. Therefore, make the
> >>larger one first, then make a smaller one from that.
> >>

> >
> >
> >

>

[Andy G]

isnt photoshop a pain..........
micrografx picture publisher just has a " maintain image sixe" box which you
tick for this process.
but as we must work with the industry standard...........

your question is about quality and how to maintain.

basically, you try to keep the uncompressed image size as close to the
original as possible.
e.g. my coolpix990 has an uncompressed image size of 9mb
in PS 6 this is shown as 'pixel dimensions' in the 'image size' dialogue
box.

if you have to crop, the pixels will go down and only special software will
ATTEMPT to get quality back.
basically, it's impossible.
you can only work with the image you have.

resizing the print size up and down will not affect the overall quality so
long as the "pixel dimensions' remain constant.

printing an 8x10 at 300dpi is great so long as the ORIGINAL pixel dimensions
are of this size or larger.
otherwise you are adding pixels to an already maximised image.
sort of like trying to enlarge an out-of-focus photo.

there are software tricks like 'unsharp mask' or special software but
generally
you cant put in what aint there!


"Zappy" <paul@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f011e4d$0$727$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au. ..

> Original image size from camera 1944 x 2592 pixels. 10.8 x 14.4 inches @

180

> pixels per inch.
>
> When I edit images for print, I usually crop to 4x6 inches @ 300 dpi

giving

> me 1200 x 1800 image size. Then I fix the levels, etc. If I get this final
> image printed at 4x6 and I like it.
>
> How do I go about getting a 8x12 print from the final edited 4x6 image,
> without degrading quality. Or am I supposed to crop to 8x12 early on,
> enhance and the resize to print 4x6. Then if I like the 4x6 print, just

send

> the 8x12 image to print.
>
> Thanks
>
>