Placed PDF of ad, CMYK, but 3 spot colors show up...how to remove?

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

Have a few color ads to place that were given to me as PDF files. CMYK, but there are also 3 spot colors I noticed when I pre-flighted the IDCS2 file. I opened the Separations Preview window, and hit the button "convert spot to cmyk" or what have you, and the 3 spot colors have the cmyk icon next to them.

But, when I go back and preflight, IDCS2 still says there are 3 spot colors.

So, simpler question, is there a specific way to take any given PDF file, and "convert" it to CMYK ready for placement into ID pages? I'm thinking I might get some with RGB photos still in it, or spot colors, or both. So, I'm looking for the preferred way to open a PDF, make sure it's CMYK, then place it.

I opened it in Acrobat Pro, and found the Tools>Print Production>Convert Colors... dialog, and it has a similar set of options, but is that what I want?

[Bob Levine]

Yes. That's what you want. You could also set the ink manager in ID to
print all spots as process.

Bob

[by_Buko@adobeforums.com]

it will screw up the conversion if any of the spot colors touch transparency.

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

I used the ink manager to print all spots as process, but I still see them listed in ID's Preflight box.

That's why I want to know if there is some other way to completely CMYK the pdf's before I bring them into ID...do I have to buy some 3rd party software to do it properly? the PDF's are almost always full-page size, so I don't have to put anything over them, type or photos or anything.

Which conversion will it screw up? If the PDF used transparency in it's design, or after ID get's it and I added something with transparency in it?

I used to import the PDF files right into Illustrator and save as an EPS, but that is clunky.

[tman@adobeforums.com]

"do I have to buy some 3rd party software to do it properly?"

try the link below for some software that will solve your problem(s)..it's free for either 15 or 30 days (can't remember which) it is a bit pricey...but then so is reprinting something or spending hours and hours trying to solve problems...

<http://www.enfocus.com/download.php?id=855>

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

$600 is a bit too much for me. The whole job is worth $900 or so. I'll inquire with the printer and maybe they have it, as many printers I've worked for had at least one copy of PitStop.

Seems like Acrobat Pro should be able to at least give you a PDF ready to drop into InDesign without having to use a $600 add-on, no?

[Richard_Sohanchyk@adobeforums.com]

You can drop it into ID. Just don't output the plates you don't need.

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

I am currently dropping them in, but I have no control what happens at the printer. More and more I'm being asked to just FTP the files to a printer and that's the last I hear about it. Heck, I don't even get to see proofs anymore, just the way it is.

So, I want to make sure I setup the ID files the best possible in case the Printer doesn't quite know what they are doing.

For example, the PDFs that I dropped in, had a subhead, and parts of their logo in spot colors, but everything else was cmyk. Why? Who knows. So if I drop in, and they don't output those plates, then big problems - no logos and headlines.

So that's what got me started on this hunt.

[tman@adobeforums.com]

I work in the prepress department for a large print house--we get files (regularly) that have incorrect color information in them--we just follow the sales persons instructions--if the job is CMYK, we change/correct the spot colors at the rip stage--or we have the software to correct it prior to that...if in doubt contact the printer and inform them what your file problems are and 'try' to rely on their abilities to correct them. We regularly fix files--usually to match a proof that is generated by the sales dept-or a customer supplied PDF 'softproof'(which could have annotations about color).

[Eric_Schweinhagen@adobeforums.com]

It isn't the best way to do it, I know, and I always check with the client before doing it, and most okay it, but I frequently have opened the offending PDF in PhotoShop as a CMYK conversion. Again, it isn't perfect, but it sure works in a last minute pinch.

[Heather Bell]

If you are working in InDesign, and save a PDF for cmyk output, hit no color conversion but then under ink manager hit convert all spot to process. If you do this the spot color WON'T appear in your PDF as a separate plate, it will be converted to CMYK.
If sending the InDesign file, anyone printing straight from InDesign should know how to click the all spots to process button when plating. I wouldn't waste your money on fancy external programs that are designed to do what the software already does.
Part of the benefits of using a local printer is the availability of help and customer service, of course I am bias, but finding a local printer you can talk to, recieve proofs from and knows your name rather than your computer generated order number is sometimes well worth the few extra bucks over a web-only service provider.
Just food for thought.

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the insight. Trust me, I would love to work directly with the printers like I used to "back in the day". I've been at this for 15 years, and within the last 3 or so, my clients do not want me to be involved with the printers any more. Some still do, only because they don't want to deal with it, but many simply are told by the printers "have your guy FTP the files here.." and that's all I get. I don't get a link to a PDF on how that printer wants files setup, nothing. It's like Printers nowadays just assume take whatever they get and spend the time to fix everything. I say fine, but if things need fixin', which once in awhile I imagine they do no matter how well I prepare files, then it would be nice to know. I could fix them on my end and next time the job is output, the changes would be made.

These printers are not web-only vendors, these ARE local printers. If I wanted to spend the hours to drive over to one and go through all that, the client wouldn't care, and certainly wouldn't pay me for doing it.

[Heather Bell]

I suppose it is a changing industry. I'm in a very small print shop and I AM the graphics department, perpress department, and webmaster, so I personally love getting to know any designers we work with, letting them know our system, fifteen minutes of conversation can save me hours upon hours of conversion over the year. There are some things that obviously I prefer to do, such as set multiple up, paginiate etc. specific to the job and how we'll be running, which can have to do with the job itself, or include changes depending on other jobs in house that will be running at the same time. But it is really nice to have an open line of communication, say for printing something spot colors and being provided a CMYK separated document, obviously this is no fun to fix, I will, but it's no fun.
For my system PDFs are the safest, I can almost always use a PDF saved as press quality. This is my #1 recommendation for new clients. But I have to say, I have vendors that still won't accept PDFs, they insist on an EPS, so without any other information from the printer, it's kind of like a shot in the dark deciding what file type to send. Best of luck with your projects.

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

The smaller printers are fine, it's the bigger commercial guys that I'm talking about. I have a stable of 3 or 4 printers, and when they let me handle the printing, I obviously am the only contact with the printer, so I can usually talk to someone briefly...but most of the time, it's not like that.

I've worked at both sides, and when I was a prepress guy, we all wished the designers would supply the files properly, or at least try to learn, but there was no system setup to communicate back what was wrong - fix it and run, because time was always short.

So, when I switched to IDCS2 from Quark after a zillion years, I suddenly realized there were new things I had to deal with - transparency issues, flattening, PDF's being placed now, native PSD files, etc.

I guess i'll have to hunt down a dedicated "guru" book on IDCS2 soon as I can't get a concise list of rules to follow on preparing files.

Thanks to all.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

Quite a Box of Tricks will convert Spot and RGB to CMYK as well as other things, it is an Acrobat plug-In that cost about $200. You can get it at Adobes site.

[john_vandenberg@adobeforums.com]

Is it global? I want to simply open a supplied PDF, change the whole thing to CMYK, and place it. I don't even want to know what is spot on the page, or rgb, just a prep type process. I guess I'm doing it right using the Ink Manager dialog, so I'll just do that for now.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

One click and it's done. Another great option is converting all 4 color black text to 100% black in a whole document with one click.

[John_Kallios@adobeforums.com]

> It isn't the best way to do it, I know, and I always check with the

client before doing it, and most okay it, but I frequently have opened
the offending PDF in PhotoShop as a CMYK conversion. Again, it isn't perfect,
but it sure works in a last minute pinch.




In in pinch, link place in Illustrator. Then, object flatten transparency with fonts convert to outlines checked.

Advantages: don't need fonts installed and vector is maintained.

Disadvantages: all fonts converted to outlines.

Much better option (imo) over using Photoshop.

[Richard_Sohanchyk@adobeforums.com]

Another great option is converting all 4 color black text to 100% black
in a whole document with one click.




Did I miss something? I don't remember ever doing that. I usually print ps to grayscale and distill. I'll have to test it tomorrow but I think that way gives you a truer black.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

I meant when I receive a PDF of an ad from an agency or freelancer for a publication I am putting together, and they use a build C100M100Y100K100 to make black for the type. Usually it makes the type seem fuzzy because it using all 4 plates. This option in Box of tricks converts it to C0M0Y0K100 so it is crisp. No printers ever want to deal with 4 color black.