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Placing Word with Style Mapping - Adobe Indesign Windows

InDesign CS2, Windows 2000. I don't seem to be able to correctly place a Word file using style mapping. When placed, a '+' sign appears next to the correct style in my style box and the placed text does not reflect the style. When I try to apply a style from within InDesign the text loses italic and bold settings. Can anybody help? Thanks....

  1. #1

    Default Placing Word with Style Mapping

    InDesign CS2, Windows 2000. I don't seem to be able to correctly place a Word file using style mapping. When placed, a '+' sign appears next to the correct style in my style box and the placed text does not reflect the style. When I try to apply a style from within InDesign the text loses italic and bold settings. Can anybody help?
    Thanks.
    seanrtd@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    You can't have a paragraph style with random bold and italic. The + sign is
    telling you that part of your paragraph has been augmented with text
    features not covered by the style definition. Applying the paragraph style
    will tell InDesign to override such augmented characters with the pragaraph
    style definition. Unless, of course, you are using nested styles.

    k


    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Thanks for your reply Ken.
    So if I place a word doent which includes italics/bold, there is no way to assign InDesign styles, whilst retaining the random italic/bold information?
    I'm not very familiar with nested styles but am I right in thinking you cant use them to simply recognise the italic/bold information in the original file.
    Thanks.
    seanrtd@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    I don't want to steer you on the wrong course here - I don't work this way
    myself. But if you're getting a + sign that indicates that your paragraph
    style contains something not defined in the style. If you apply a paragraph
    style to plain text in InDesign and then italicise a word you will see the
    same thing.

    So if when you are importing your Word text it looks OK, don't worry about
    the + sign against the paragraph style.

    Quite right in your supposition about nested styles. These are used to apply
    character style information - such as bold or italic - but according to
    rules defined in the style.

    k


    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    OK, I get the '+' definition Ken - I guess my main problem is:
    Although I'm re-defining the styles I want using the style mapping dialogue box the placed text is not reflecting them. The fonts/spacing etc. are incorrect so I've been trying to reassign the styles from within InDesign - hence the problems with the italic/bold information being lost.
    It's looking more and more likely that I'll have to manually re-assign the italic/bold info when the text has been placed.
    Unless I'm still missing something, I'm really surprised that you cant assign a style to a placed Word doent and retain its Italic/Bold information.
    Cheers,
    Sean.
    seanrtd@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    "I'm really surprised that you can't assign a style to a placed Word
    doent and retain its Italic/Bold information."

    You should be able to.


    "The fonts/spacing etc. are incorrect "

    Are these Word files coming from the same machine that you are running
    InDesign on? In other words, is there a possibility that the font described
    in the Word style isn't available to InDesign?

    Is the InDesign paragraph style set up to accurately reproduce the Word
    style?

    If your imported doent is initially showing bold and italic, try making a
    character style for bold and italic, then searching for bold and italic in
    the text and replacing with that character style. Then apply your paragraph
    style. I think you'll find that the bold and italic character styles will
    remain.

    Sorry to sound a bit vague, but I don't work with imported Word files so I
    have no daily experience.

    k



    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Ken, you're a marvel. The Word files come at me from different sources, so the fonts used are different everytime. That is what has been ing things up. As soon as I change the font of each doent to the one I want (within Word) then place them into ID - all info is retained. Cant tell you how long this has been bugging me.
    Cheers,
    Sean.
     
    InDesign on? In other words, is there a possibility that the font described
    in the Word style isn't available to InDesign?

    seanrtd@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    This I believe is a frequently encountered problem. The creator of the Word
    doent defines a style, and the same style name is used in InDesign but
    with a different definition, forcing the choice of which style definition
    InDesign actually applies.

    k


    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Sean,

    Ken mentioned a way to apply a character style to the italicised words, and
    I strongly recommend that you do this. Why? Because I'm guessing that the
    Word docs don't have proper styles applied, or maybe they do but the ital
    and bold is done manually. That means your ID text formatting is
    tenuous...some day you might want to mess with that text again, and if the
    manual formatting is still there it can be lost. Alt-click the style to see
    what I mean.

    If you apply a character style, the italics are very sticky, even if you
    decide to use a different font two years from now.

    John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Thanks JohnO, I'll try that.
    Sean.
    seanrtd@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    > You can't have a paragraph style with random bold and italic.

    This is true only if you re-apply the style after the Word doent is
    placed. In my workflow, I place Word docs with corresponding paragraph
    styles into InDesign. All of my italics and bolds are done in Word with
    local formatting. All of the attributes of the corresponding
    identically-named InDesign paragraph style are applied correctly to the
    placed text, and the bolds and italics applied as local formatting in
    Word are also maintained in InDesign.
    Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Quite, but if you read the rest of the thread you will see that the OP had
    font matching problems, so his imported styles didn't give him what he
    wanted, and he was forcing the InDesign style on the text, and so was losing
    local formatting. Because you can't have a paragraph style with random bold
    and italic.

    k


    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Oh, dear, I can't believe what I'm reading. I have been having the same problem as Sean. All my life in PageMaker, people--different people--have sent me articles for newsletters, usually in some Times variant, sometimes Arial, with their desired bolding and italics. The Word style would usually be "Normal" but not always; they weren't my files, and the senders didn't know from styles and certainly didn't have the fonts I use. I would place the file without ever opening it, and it would map to one of my defined PageMaker styles. I don't know if PageMaker did style mapping, I just took what came in, did "select all" and applied my text style to the file. Then I would selectively apply my desired headline and subhead styles, which varied depending on the article, and all would be well. That is, all the italics and bold were carried through.

    Now, I'm reading that I will have to define Word styles to correspond to all my InDesign styles, open every submitted file and apply the styles in Word, then place the files. And if I ever change a characteristic in one of my InDesign styles, I have to make sure to change it in Word as well. And then, apparently, italics will be carried over. Well, it's a thought, but I'm having trouble seeing it as an improvement.
    Ellen_Schwartz@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Now, I'm reading that I will have to define Word styles to correspond to all my InDesign styles, open every submitted file and apply the styles in Word, then place the files.

    If your doents come from diverse sources it's probably not worth editing the Word docs. You can do all sorts of automated cleanup in InDesign as Ken describes above, avoiding the need to edit the Word file. In other words, if the author of the doent hasn't provided useful formatting in Word, you may as well just fix it in InDesign.

    Phil Redman
    pjredman@adobeforums.com Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Ellen. I think you are missing the point slightly. InDesign will do what you
    want.

    Sean was importing text styled in Word, to map to a style in InDesign. But
    the Word style used a font that wasn't available to InDesign, so InDesign
    replaced it. Sean overrode that replacement by forcing the paragraph style,
    and in so doing also lost the bold and italics. When he redefined the Word
    styles with fonts that were available in InDesign the text came in as he
    wanted.

    You can import a Word file with bold and italics, apply your own paragraph
    styles, and retain the bold and italics. But the paragraph style will show
    as having been augmented. If you force the style precisely, you override
    local formatting, and wave goodbye to your bold and italics.

    k







    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    Thank you, Phil and Ken, for your prompt replies. I certainly wasn't looking forward to defining styles in Word. I tried it and it's no fun. Especially when I'm working with doents that come with their own styles, and I would have to point them to my doent template and then apply the text style. Yuck.

    But I didn't think I misunderstood Sean, since what he described seemed to match what happens to me.

    However, I just got smart and checked "show import options" in the Place dialog. I unchecked the box that said "Remove text and table formatting" and Placed a one sentence test file, with one word italicized, made on my computer, using Times New Roman 12pt. This time the italics remained, but I got an error message that says "This doent uses one or more fonts that are not currently available on your system. The text will use a substitute font until the original font becomes available." It then says my two not-available fonts are Arial TT and Arial TT Italic. Huh? Where does it get Arial from?

    Well, ignoring that and applying my "Main Text" style to the imported stuff, LO AND BEHOLD, the regular is Minion regular and the italic is Minion italic! Yay!

    Okay, the remaining pitfall, if I understand the earlier posts, is if I force application of the paragraph style, or maybe a new paragraph style, to the paragraph, it will replace the italics. To protect myself, I need to hunt down the italics and replace them with an italicized character style? But if I just leave the text alone, I'm all right and the editors will stop throwing things at me for losing their italics?

    Thank you for setting me on the right track. (What did it was Ken's "You can import a Word file with bold and italics, apply your own paragraph styles, and retain the bold and italics." Well, then there must be a way to make it happen.) Thank you again.
    Ellen_Schwartz@adobeforums.com Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    I think the crux here is what you get that you might want to change when you
    import the text and how you go about it.

    If the text comes in as you want it, but not in the font you want because
    it's styled to use something else, then you can select it all and change the
    font and you will retain any other formatting. A caveat here - InDesign will
    only apply bold and italics if the bold and italic face of the font is
    installed. If a faux bold or italic has been applied elsewhere, InDesign
    won't honour it.

    If you change the font by simply applying a paragraph style, then again you
    will be OK, but your paragraph style will show with the + in the palette
    because you have bold or italic in the text - and that is agin the style.

    If you Alt click the paragraph style to get rid of the + and impose all the
    definition of the style, then you will lose your bold and italic.

    As JohnO picked up earlier in this thread, it is a good idea to define your
    bold and italic with a character style. If the font you are working with has
    bold and italic, they will be rendered. But if you change the font to one
    where the bold and italic are not present, you will lose them in the text
    and probably (never tried it myself) they won't come back when you apply a
    font that does have bold and italic. But if they have been defined with a
    character style then they can be identified and defined.

    k


    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    > his imported styles didn't give him what he 

    I'm still confused, then. I have paragraph styles in Word that have the
    same names as paragraph styles in InDesign. The formatting of the Word
    styles--typeface, point size, etc.--doesn't matter at all. All that
    matters is the formatting of the InDesign styles.

    So, if you don't like the typeface you set in your Word style, who
    cares? Just change it in the InDesign style. If you have applied local
    formatting--such as super- or sub-scripts, bold, italics--in Word,
    these are maintained in InDesign.

    In this kind of workflow, there is never a reason to force an InDesign
    paragraph style onto text placed from Word (which of course will do
    what you say: remove local formatting). The trick is to only use
    InDesign styles with the same names as your Word styles. Of course,
    this workflow requires the disciplined use of styles in Word.
    Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    > And if I ever change a characteristic in one of my InDesign 

    No, you don't. The characteristics of the Word style do not matter at
    all; the InDesign style always trumps.
    Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Placing Word with Style Mapping

    > If the font you are working with has 

    This is the only possible reason I can think of to use a character
    style to apply bold or italic.
    Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com Guest

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