*PLEASE HELP* Page layout in Illustrator 10

[Jen_Agatone@adobeforums.com]

Hello,
I am working at a company over the summer that needs a 16-page brochure designed. They only have Photoshop and Illustrator on Windows platform (doesn't really make a difference), so I am planning on using Illustrator to set up the layouts and flow the copy. What would be the best way of doing this? I am used to InDesign and Quark, but the company doesn't have either of those programs. How would I go about setting up spreads and all? Make a document the size of the two pages together? And then indicate a fold line? Please help if anyone knows! Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it!

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Jen,

How would I go about setting up spreads and all? Make a document the size
of the two pages together? And then indicate a fold line?




Yup. Make the artboard big enough to include spreads with trim marks. You can just drag-copy a set of the vertical lines from trim marks to the center (aligning to a guide) using the direct selection tool in order to indicate the fold line. Note that trim marks are not the same things as crop marks.

Assuming a straight saddle-stitched self-cover (with no elaborate multifolds), you'll end up with eight Illustrator files: pgs. 16 and 1 will be on one document, 2 and 3 on another, and so on.

Talk to your printer. More likely than not, they'll take your eight Illustrator files and drop them into Quark for film output.

Too bad your company won't spring for a page layout program. Even if they never produce another multipage brochure -- and especially given your familiarity with Quark and InDesign -- it's false economy.

=-= Harron =-=

[Jacob_Bugge@adobeforums.com]

Harron,

Are the eight files not, on four sheets with outward/inward pages,

16+1
2+15

14+3
4+13

12+5
6+11

10+7
8+9

?

[Jen_Agatone@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for your help Harron and Jacob. Harron, I just have one question about something you said:
"You can just drag-copy a set of the vertical lines from trim marks to the center (aligning to a guide) using the direct selection tool in order to indicate the fold line. This ensures your fold marks are stroked in registration black, which will appear on all separations. Note that trim marks are not the same things as crop marks."

How would I go about creating the trim marks? With the line tool with stroke set to black (is that registration black?)? As for trim marks vs. crop marks, what exactly is the difference? I intend on having a bleed, so wouldn't I manually put in crop marks on the artboard? Thanks again for your help!

P.S. I heard somewhere that printers charge more to print Illustrator documents. Do you know if this is true? If so, I might talk to my employer to see if they want to purchase InDesign or Quark.

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Jacob,

When you work in a page layout program, you work in reader's spreads, not printer's spreads, which is what you're describing.

You let the printer worry about imposition because they have systems in place that take care of that as they output film. I would do the same with my Illustrator files because most printers will assume reader's spreads and, as I mentioned in my previous post, most likely drop them into a page layout application, such as QXP.

If you do create printer's spreads, you had better make damned sure your printer knows about it. (And be prepared for headaches if you have art that must be aligned across the gutter.)

Jen,

I just have one question...




Hmmm... OK. Who's counting, anyway.?

Let me try to give you some quick answers.

How would I go about creating the trim marks?




Draw a rectangle on your artboard representing the desired trim size -- e.g., 11 x 17 for a self-cover brochure that folds to 8.5 x 11. (Easy way: click, don't drag, with the rectangle tool. Then enter your dimensions.) With the rectangle positioned in the center (either eyeball it or use the align palette with the 'align to artboard' option selected) and selected, navigate the main menu: Filter | Create | Trim Marks.

At this point, you should still have the rectangle. Make sure it is selected, then navigate the main menu: View | Guides | Make Guides (or just hit Ctrl+5). You now have a convenient guide at your trim perimeter.

As for trim marks vs. crop marks, what exactly is the difference?




Here's a quick answer. Crop marks affect output -- your art gets cropped to the marks you set. Trim marks print in registration black as part of the art. I prefer trim marks for this type of work because it leaves little ambiguity about your intentions... especially when you have things like bleeds.

I heard somewhere that printers charge more to print Illustrator documents.
Do you know if this is true?




I've heard that, too. I've never been charged extra for output from IL, but, then again, I've never done a 16-page brochure in Illustrator. Like I said, talk to your printer.

If so, I might talk to my employer to see if they want to purchase InDesign
or Quark.




If that's the only way your employer will spring for a page layout program, yeah... by all means tell them the printer will charge more. Even if that's a lie, you'll save them money in the long run and come out a hero(ine).

I don't mean to sound unkind, but might I respectfully suggest you spend some time with the manual and, perhaps, a good book. (I learned a lot from Deke McClelland's Real World Illustrator some years ago when I was first learning the program.)

=-= Harron =-=

[Jacob_Bugge@adobeforums.com]

Harron, you may be right about which spread to use here, but in that case I was fooled by:

'They only have Photoshop and Illustrator on Windows platform',
'I am used to InDesign and Quark, but the company doesn't have either of those programs', and
'Make a document the size of the two pages together? And then indicate a fold line?';

especially the last one about the fold line.

[Jen_Agatone@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for your help. That's exactly what I thought, Filter-->Create-->Trim Marks, then hitting Ctrl 5, but I just wanted to double check. I just wasn't sure about the trim-marks vs. crop marks. I have worked a lot in Illustrator, just not with page layout which usually is done in InDesign or Quark.
Thanks again.

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

You're welcome, Jen. Good luck.

=-= Harron =-=

[Jacob_Bugge@adobeforums.com]

Jen, an afterthought:

If Harron is right about the spread which he probably is of course, that might actually strengthen your arguments: there might be some extra payment to save on the printer side if you deliver the job in in InDesign or Quark.

And since the company seems to outsource the whole job in any case, why not just make them PDFs directly from InDesign or through Distiller from Quark so they can see what they are getting? Then they will even save the money for the programmes while you save your time and their money using your favourite programme.

[genvicki@adobeforums.com]

I do not understand all the fuss about building a brochure or catalog pages in Illustrator. All that is needed is to ask your printer how they want to receive the file: 8.5 x 11, or two up pages set to print properly such as a 17 x 11 with page 1 on the right and page 16 on the left and so forth. I have been doing it this way for a very long time and have never had a problem. Just ask the printer first. Rarely do they want you to set your own crop or registration marks, but, make sure you provide them with a mock-up of how the brochure is to look completed. Make sure you include all fonts and original linked files used to build your brochure and include a list of what programs were used and their version also whether it was built on Mac or PC.

As for registration and trim marks - if they do want you to make your own - use the registration color provided in the color pallet. It is NOT black (event though it appears to be) and will print on every color negative. I use 1/2 point lines, approx. 3/16" long, starting a litte over 1/16" from the the edge of the page. I use dash lines to indicate folds.

If your pages have a color bleed, pull the bleed out 1/8" on all sides. If you are printing 2-8.5 x 11 on a 17 x 11 do the same except where the two 8.5 x 11 sheets meet in the middle. Butt those dead on if the patters does not match. If the color and or patters match, pull one side slightly over the other (computers are not perfect and even with a dead on match it will sometimes leave a thin space and the paper will show through.

Rather long winded, but I hope this helps.

[Poul_Solbjerg_Holst@adobeforums.com]

As you correctly say.. "Ask your Printer"... If your printer is using
CTP, which I think is most common now a days, he does most likely not
want to recieve anything in spreads. All imposition programmes is
dealing with single sides, and it can be somewhat more difficult to
impose pages in spreads...

Poul Solbjerg