Poor Sparc LX overwhelmed by Solaris 9

[Bjorn Nitmo]

I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
hooking up a terminal and going headless?

Note: Yes, I realize I can install Linux or {Net|Open}BSD easily enough
and will do so if Solaris just isn't workable but I would like to
exhaust my Solaris options first.

--
Bjorn Nitmo <bjorn@deepsky.com>
Yes, my name is Bjorn and no, I don't work at Ikea.

[Raf LaPietra]

In article <slrnbil93i.7jr.bjorn@maul.deepsky.com>,
Bjorn Nitmo <bjorn@deepsky.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
>that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
>I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
>machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
>hooking up a terminal and going headless?
>

boot cdrom - install nowin

from cd 1 of 2 instead of from the installer cd

-Raf

[Dr. David Kirkby]

Bjorn Nitmo wrote:

>
> I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
> that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
> I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
> machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
> hooking up a terminal and going headless?
>
> Note: Yes, I realize I can install Linux or {Net|Open}BSD easily enough
> and will do so if Solaris just isn't workable but I would like to
> exhaust my Solaris options first.
>
> --
> Bjorn Nitmo <bjorn@deepsky.com>
> Yes, my name is Bjorn and no, I don't work at Ikea.

Do you have to use an LX ? Can't you find $50 or so and buy a SPARC
20? This one with a 200 MHz HyperSPARC CPU sold on eBay today for $51.
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3037592856[/url]

(I was willing to bid myself on this, but the guy wanted $35 to pay
his technician to remove the cpu, ram + disk bracket and him dispose
of the rest. Seemed a bit excessive for a 5 minute job, especially
given he would have a motherboard + psu to perhaps sell.)

I don't mean to be funny, but I can't help but feel you are going to
be forever fighting the LX and perhaps just buying a newer model will
be more sensible. I'd look for an Ultra, but SS20's are quite
reasonable performers and dirt-cheap.

Others might well disagree with my comments of course.

--
Dr. David Kirkby,
Senior Research Fellow,
Department of Medical Physics,
University College London,
11-20 Capper St, London, WC1E 6JA.
Tel: 020 7679 6408 Fax: 020 7679 6269
Internal telephone: ext 46408
e-mail [email]davek@medphys.ucl.ac.uk[/email]

[Rich Teer]

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Bjorn Nitmo wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
> that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
> I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
> machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
> hooking up a terminal and going headless?

Sounds to me like you're using the Installation CD? If so, remove
it from your CDROM drive, and place it on a table*. Then insert
the Software 1 of 2 CD, type "boot cdrom", and away you go. It'll
still be slow, but should be much quicker than the GUI installer
on the Installation CD. BTW, the Installation CD you placed on
the table makes a great coaster for your cup of $BEVERAGE while
your waiting for Solaris to install. :-)

* If you're into pyrotechnics, you could also stick it into
a microwave. But I'm not accepting any responsibility for
any damage caused by doing this! :-)

But, as David Kirkby suggested, it might be worth investing a
few Krona in a more powerful workstation. An SS20, Ultra 1, or
Ultra 30 would be an ideal choice.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: [url]http://www.rite-online.net[/url]

[Bjorn Nitmo]

Dr. David Kirkby wrote:

> Do you have to use an LX ?

No, and frankly, it probably won't get much use but I'd rather
not dump it on the scrap heap and a spare terminal is never a bad thing.

I've got a Sparc 20 with a pair of SM81s and 512Mb of RAM and a
lovely Ultra 2 with a pair of 400MHz UltraSPARC-IIs and 1Gb of RAM so you
need not worry that I'm going to be using the LX as my primary machine.
If I was going to use it as my primary machine, I would probably install
Linux as it's a heck of a lot faster on this hardware. Okay, I admit it.
I just said that to drive Rich Teer nuts. :)

Thanks to all that responded.

--
Bjorn Nitmo <bjorn@deepsky.com>
Yes, my name is Bjorn and no, I don't work at Ikea.

[Rich Teer]

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Bjorn Nitmo wrote:

> Linux as it's a heck of a lot faster on this hardware. Okay, I admit it.
> I just said that to drive Rich Teer nuts. :)

LOL! I think you mean "more nuts". :-)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: [url]http://www.rite-online.net[/url]

[Casper H.S. Dik]

[email]raf@news.lapietra.org[/email] (Raf LaPietra) writes:

>In article <slrnbil93i.7jr.bjorn@maul.deepsky.com>,
>Bjorn Nitmo <bjorn@deepsky.com> wrote:

>> I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
>>that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
>>I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
>>machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
>>hooking up a terminal and going headless?
>>

>boot cdrom - install nowin

>from cd 1 of 2 instead of from the installer cd

You can probably boot with the window system; it's the Java based
Webstart installer that probably kills the LX, not the window system itself.
(I remember they days that X11 was both big and optional; it seems to
have stayed the same size and weight so it's now small, standard and
"light weight", even for an LX)

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

[Robb Ottenhoff]

Hi,

I've been reading this thread with some interest over the last few
days as I'm about to install solaris 9 on a old LX clone (Tagung LX)
as a way to relive a little bit of history -- you see, way back in
1995 this machine was the original server that geocities started on
(bit of history: geocities was originally called bhi90210.com (beverly
hills internet) and then changed to geopages, and then final
geocities.)

Back then the server was configured with 16 MB memory and a single 1G
drive with the following software:

Solaris 2.4
NCSA's httpd 1.4
mSQL
perl 4

As a surprise for the founder of the geocities (shhhh, if you know
him), I'm cleaning this machine up and bringing the memory to 128 MB
and trowing in a 4G drive. Then I'm going to install the original
graphics from the first launch of geocities and give it to him.

So, I have a few questions for everyone:

1. Is there any memory compatibly cross-over for an LX type machine?
I've found several sites that list memory specially for the Tatung LX,
but is there some other type of memory that will work? Cheaper?

2. I don't think there are any special issues with installing a 4G
drive in this machine, but I could be wrong. I don't have a cd drive,
so I'm doing the install from an install server I've set up. should
be fun...

3. To make this work, I'm planning on running this machine with a
monitor. I know that's going to tax the limited resources of the
machine, so is there anything that I should consider to make it
less... taxing? Like running CDE instead of Open Windows (or the
other way around?) or something else all together?

4. Once I have a GUI, I want to run a web browser. It can be
*anything* as the original site was built to run on .9 browsers.
Basically I'm just looking for speed at this point as I'm sure that
the screen draws on this machine will be very slow.

5. Other upgrades? Is there video memory that should be upgraded?
Something else? I don't want to change the CPU or add an additional
graphic card as the goal is to be as 'original' as possible, but
memory and drive space don't, IMHO, compromise that goal -- too much.
:)

Thanks for any suggestions. If you want to see the results once I get
the site up and running, send me an email (bhi90210@ottenhoff.net) and
I'll send out an announcement with a URL.

-r

[Rob Stampfli]

In article <647378b.0308031013.5f87ac22@posting.google.com> ,
Robb Ottenhoff <robb@ottenhoff.net> wrote:

>So, I have a few questions for everyone:
>
>1. Is there any memory compatibly cross-over for an LX type machine?
>I've found several sites that list memory specially for the Tatung LX,
>but is there some other type of memory that will work? Cheaper?

I cannot comment on the LX clones, but the original LX took 60ns
Fast Page True Parity 72-pin SIMMs. The official SUN memory was
501-2509 (16Meg) and 501-1991 (4Meg) SIMMs, installed in pairs.
While never officially sanctioned by SUN, 32Meg (x 36 bit) SIMMs
could be installed in the first two memory positions, allowing
128Meg of total memory. I've found these SIMMs on the Web for
about $10 per.

>2. I don't think there are any special issues with installing a 4G
>drive in this machine, but I could be wrong. I don't have a cd drive,
>so I'm doing the install from an install server I've set up. should
>be fun...

Make sure the root partition is entirely in the first 2Gig of drive
space, as the LX boot prom is incapable of accessing further into
the disk or dealing with a >2Gig partition. (Once booted, Unix
doesn't have these restrictions, only the boot prom.)

>3. To make this work, I'm planning on running this machine with a
>monitor. I know that's going to tax the limited resources of the
>machine, so is there anything that I should consider to make it
>less... taxing? Like running CDE instead of Open Windows (or the
>other way around?) or something else all together?

Openwin will be less taxing (memory and CPU cycles) than CDE.
But, it will not be snappy.

....

>5. Other upgrades? Is there video memory that should be upgraded?
>Something else? I don't want to change the CPU or add an additional
>graphic card as the goal is to be as 'original' as possible, but
>memory and drive space don't, IMHO, compromise that goal -- too much.

Again, not sure of the Tatung, but true-blue LXs had a slot for
installing additional memory for the graphics card. The memory
is available, and doesn't cost all that much, but I've frankly
not noticed any real speed improvements (or for that matter any
differences at all) from using it. Alas, if you are going to run
a broswer, it is going to be slow.

Good luck with your project.

Rob

[Dan Foster]

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0308011203200.18642-100000@zaphod.rite-group.com>, Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Bjorn Nitmo wrote:
>

>> I'm trying to figure out what is the latest version of Solaris
>> that will run reasonably well on an Sparc LX with 128Mb of RAM? I thought
>> I would installing Solaris 9 but the installer completely overwhelms the
>> machine. Is there a way to get around the graphical installer other than
>> hooking up a terminal and going headless?

>
> Sounds to me like you're using the Installation CD? If so, remove
> it from your CDROM drive, and place it on a table*. Then insert
> the Software 1 of 2 CD, type "boot cdrom", and away you go. It'll

So what's the difference between installing from the Installation CD as
compared to installing from the Software 1 of 2 CD?

If the Software 1 of 2 CD is that much better, why does Sun still ship
a install CD? Historical reason of some sort? Just curious on all counts.

-Dan

[Rich Teer]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Dan Foster wrote:

> So what's the difference between installing from the Installation CD as
> compared to installing from the Software 1 of 2 CD?

The former has a Java based GUI installer, that lets you surf
the web while installing. IIRC, it also presents a "dumbed
down" installation, offering less choices. (I can't recall
the specifics, because despite installing Solaris numerous
times, I've used the Install CD exactly ONCE (just to see
what everyone was complaining about).)

If you boot using SW 1 of 2, you get an X based installer
(assuming you boot using a graphical console), which uses
twm. Not only is this much faster, it also is more configurable
(from what I remember).

> If the Software 1 of 2 CD is that much better, why does Sun still ship
> a install CD? Historical reason of some sort? Just curious on all counts.

I dunno. The Install CD was new with Solaris 8, so they
don't ship it for historical reasons. Maybe they ship
it for hysterical reasons... :-)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: [url]http://www.rite-online.net[/url]

[Dan Foster]

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0308041334280.18642-100000@zaphod.rite-group.com>, Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Dan Foster wrote:
>

>> So what's the difference between installing from the Installation CD as
>> compared to installing from the Software 1 of 2 CD?

>
> The former has a Java based GUI installer, that lets you surf
> the web while installing. IIRC, it also presents a "dumbed
> down" installation, offering less choices. (I can't recall
> the specifics, because despite installing Solaris numerous
> times, I've used the Install CD exactly ONCE (just to see
> what everyone was complaining about).)
>
> If you boot using SW 1 of 2, you get an X based installer
> (assuming you boot using a graphical console), which uses
> twm. Not only is this much faster, it also is more configurable
> (from what I remember).

Ah! Nice. I'd previously installed from CDs for Solaris 2.4, 2.5, 2.6,
Solaris 7, but pretty much stuck to Jumpstart for Sol8 so didn't really
have a good chance to explore that issue. Hrm. The java installer does
seem a little piggish when it comes to resources, and I seem to recall
it caused some agony with certain systems such as the LX.

Nifty, I'll be sure to remember that for the next Sol8/9 CD install.

>> If the Software 1 of 2 CD is that much better, why does Sun still ship
>> a install CD? Historical reason of some sort? Just curious on all counts.

>
> I dunno. The Install CD was new with Solaris 8, so they
> don't ship it for historical reasons. Maybe they ship
> it for hysterical reasons... :-)

Could be. ;)

-Dan

[Dave Uhring]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:39:13 +0000, Rich Teer wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Dan Foster wrote:

> If you boot using SW 1 of 2, you get an X based installer
> (assuming you boot using a graphical console), which uses
> twm.

Solaris 8 uses olwm.

> Not only is this much faster, it also is more configurable
> (from what I remember).

You can select which packages don't get installed and you can partition
the drive more precisely. But some packages, like those for PCMCIA, cannot
be deleted at this point regardless of the type of machine on which the OE
is being installed. Same for 5 East Asian fonts even though US-iso8859-1
has been selected.

> I dunno. The Install CD was new with Solaris 8, so they
> don't ship it for historical reasons. Maybe they ship
> it for hysterical reasons... :-)

Sun apparently does not think that the MCSEs installing Solaris can use a
text terminal. For the most of them, I agree.

[Rich Teer]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Dave Uhring wrote:

> Solaris 8 uses olwm.

Right - I forgot to mention that (it's been a LONG time
since I last installed S8). Booting from SW 1 of 2 is
more or less the same as booting a pre-S8 release from CD.

>
> Sun apparently does not think that the MCSEs installing Solaris can use a
> text terminal. For the most of them, I agree.

Me too - although I would submit that an MCSE shouldn't be
attempting something that would hurt their brain so much...

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: [url]http://www.rite-online.net[/url]

[Goran Larsson]

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0308041334280.18642-100000@zaphod.rite-group.com>,
Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> wrote:
l

> The former has a Java based GUI installer, that lets you surf
> the web while installing. IIRC, it also presents a "dumbed
> down" installation, offering less choices. (I can't recall
> the specifics, because despite installing Solaris numerous
> times, I've used the Install CD exactly ONCE (just to see
> what everyone was complaining about).)

I also tried to use the Install CD once. From what I remember it was
impossible to use it if the intended install disk did not already
have a Sun label on it. The Install CD was unable to install itself
on the swap partition and did not provide any way to fix this.
This may have changed -- but one experience with the Install CD was
quite enough.

--
Göran Larsson [url]http://www.mitt-eget.com/[/url]

[Dave Uhring]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:04:56 +0000, Rich Teer wrote:

> Me too - although I would submit that an MCSE shouldn't be
> attempting something that would hurt their brain so much...

We have seen a number of MCSEs post to this NG asking some relatively
trivial questions. A few of them are trying to broaden their knowledge
but I suspect that for most their bosses bought Sun servers and are too
cheap to hire experts.

Sun is accomodating and provides a gee-whiz zoomie-bang GUI installer
which gets a job done, not necessarily the best job, but still done.

[Robb Ottenhoff]

> >1. Is there any memory compatibly cross-over for an LX type machine?

> >I've found several sites that list memory specially for the Tatung LX,
> >but is there some other type of memory that will work? Cheaper?

>
> I cannot comment on the LX clones, but the original LX took 60ns
> Fast Page True Parity 72-pin SIMMs. The official SUN memory was
> 501-2509 (16Meg) and 501-1991 (4Meg) SIMMs, installed in pairs.
> While never officially sanctioned by SUN, 32Meg (x 36 bit) SIMMs
> could be installed in the first two memory positions, allowing
> 128Meg of total memory. I've found these SIMMs on the Web for
> about $10 per.

Exactly what I was looking for... :)

> >2. I don't think there are any special issues with installing a 4G
> >drive in this machine, but I could be wrong. I don't have a cd drive,
> >so I'm doing the install from an install server I've set up. should
> >be fun...

>
> Make sure the root partition is entirely in the first 2Gig of drive
> space, as the LX boot prom is incapable of accessing further into
> the disk or dealing with a >2Gig partition. (Once booted, Unix
> doesn't have these restrictions, only the boot prom.)

In the back of my head I knew there was some issue.

> >3. To make this work, I'm planning on running this machine with a
> >monitor. I know that's going to tax the limited resources of the
> >machine, so is there anything that I should consider to make it
> >less... taxing? Like running CDE instead of Open Windows (or the
> >other way around?) or something else all together?

>
> Openwin will be less taxing (memory and CPU cycles) than CDE.
> But, it will not be snappy.

I think that I might just make it a single page, just for show.

Thanks for the feedback.

-r

[John D Groenveld]

I've not seen any evidence that the Webstart Installation CD
has helped newbies adopt Solaris. In fact, I suspect it may
have had the opposite effect.

John
[email]groenveld@acm.org[/email]

[Alessandro Selli]

Il giorno Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Goran Larsson così ha scritto:

|I also tried to use the Install CD once. From what I remember it was
|impossible to use it if the intended install disk did not already
|have a Sun label on it. The Install CD was unable to install itself
|on the swap partition and did not provide any way to fix this.
|This may have changed -- but one experience with the Install CD was
|quite enough.

I can confirm things have changed: I could install Solaris9 booting from the
InstallCD on a SS5 equipped with an HD coming from an Alpha server. I
downloaded the Solaris CDs from Sun's web site a little less than a month ago.



Sandro


--
Bellum se ipsum alet
La guerra nutre se stessa

Livio, Ab urbe condita, XXXIV,9