35K. By looking at the size of the menu specific javascript written into the of each page containing a pop-up menu ---> 2-20K depending on the cpmplexity of the menu By looking at the volume of the dynamic write HTML that is written to each page after being fetched from the server ---> ~5K This means that even with a small and simple menu, your FIRST page fetched will behave as if it weighed 35+2+5 or 42K PLUS the existing weight of the rest of the code, external files, images, etc. Since the target weight for a webpage is 40-45K total, using the menus means that you have exceeded your target in menu code alone. You can ameliorate this somewhat by externalizing the embedded js code which will remove that 2-20K weight from all except the first page (once again). But there is nothing you can do about the hit that you take on the first page, or the size of the dynamic write on each page. -- Murray --- ICQ 71997575 Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!) ================== news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS ================== http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage! http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes ================== "laksen" wrote in message news:bv2s7a$fnp$macromedia.com...[ref] > Hi once again. > > Murray says:[ref] > >The DW/FW pop-ups will add at least 35K of code overhead to the first[/ref][/ref] page[ref][ref] > >using them, as well as a large dynamic write to *each* page containing[/ref][/ref] the[ref][ref] > >menus.[/ref] > > How do you measure these menues load/weight? > > Tom > > > >[/ref] [allowsmilie] => 1 [showsignature] => 0 [ipaddress] => [iconid] => 0 [visible] => 1 [attach] => 0 [infraction] => 0 [reportthreadid] => 0 [isusenetpost] => 1 [msgid] => [ref] => [htmlstate] => on_nl2br [postusername] => Murray [ip] => forums@HAHAgrea [isdeleted] => 0 [usergroupid] => [membergroupids] => [displaygroupid] => [password] => [passworddate] => [email] => [styleid] => [parentemail] => [homepage] => [icq] => [aim] => [yahoo] => [msn] => [skype] => [showvbcode] => [showbirthday] => [usertitle] => [customtitle] => [joindate] => [daysprune] => [lastvisit] => [lastactivity] => [lastpost] => [lastpostid] => [posts] => [reputation] => [reputationlevelid] => [timezoneoffset] => [pmpopup] => [avatarid] => [avatarrevision] => [profilepicrevision] => [sigpicrevision] => [options] => [akvbghsfs_optionsfield] => [birthday] => [birthday_search] => [maxposts] => [startofweek] => [referrerid] => [languageid] => [emailstamp] => [threadedmode] => [autosubscribe] => [pmtotal] => [pmunread] => [salt] => [ipoints] => [infractions] => [warnings] => [infractiongroupids] => [infractiongroupid] => [adminoptions] => [profilevisits] => [friendcount] => [friendreqcount] => [vmunreadcount] => [vmmoderatedcount] => [socgroupinvitecount] => [socgroupreqcount] => [pcunreadcount] => [pcmoderatedcount] => [gmmoderatedcount] => [assetposthash] => [fbuserid] => [fbjoindate] => [fbname] => [logintype] => [fbaccesstoken] => [newrepcount] => [vbseo_likes_in] => [vbseo_likes_out] => [vbseo_likes_unread] => [temp] => [field1] => [field2] => [field3] => [field4] => [field5] => [subfolders] => [pmfolders] => [buddylist] => [ignorelist] => [signature] => [searchprefs] => [rank] => [icontitle] => [iconpath] => [avatarpath] => [hascustomavatar] => 0 [avatardateline] => [avwidth] => [avheight] => [edit_userid] => [edit_username] => [edit_dateline] => [edit_reason] => [hashistory] => [pagetext_html] => [hasimages] => [signatureparsed] => [sighasimages] => [sigpic] => [sigpicdateline] => [sigpicwidth] => [sigpicheight] => [postcount] => 14 [islastshown] => 1 [isfirstshown] => [attachments] => [allattachments] => ) --> Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file? - Macromedia Fireworks

Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file? - Macromedia Fireworks

Tom: Your best advice (of course, it's coming from me!) would be to avoid the use of frames *and* the DW/FW pop-up menus (or any other all-javascript menu system). Investigate the use of Templates, Library items, or Server-side includes for your maintenance issues, and the use of these methods for building your menus - http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm or http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm -- Murray --- ICQ 71997575 Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!) ================== news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS ================== http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage! http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Tom:

    Your best advice (of course, it's coming from me!) would be to avoid the use
    of frames *and* the DW/FW pop-up menus (or any other all-javascript menu
    system).

    Investigate the use of Templates, Library items, or Server-side includes for
    your maintenance issues, and the use of these methods for building your
    menus -

    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm

    or

    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:buoirt$d19$macromedia.com... 
    my menu buttons. The menu buttons are in my left Frame, and my right Frame
    holds the content. I use Fireworks and/or Dreamweaver to make this menu
    (pop-up menu). 
    Frame (my main Frame) to the right. 
    suppose then that I have to edit all my pages that uses this menu if I will
    do some adjustment to the menu. 
    pages and do the adjusment to only that file?? Or is there an another way? 


    Murray Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Hi again.

    If I use Templates or Library Items (those ways I have to learn some more about), would you still advise me to not use the DW/FW pop-up menus, and if, why is that? I like the way those menues are working/looking.

    What menu system would you advise me to use if I will use Templates or Library Items?

    When I tried to add DW pop-up menu to a DW Template, the Behavior was greyed out, I was not able to use it. If I add those pop-up menu first to a html-file in DW, and then save that file as a Template, will that Template work right?

    Thanks for answering.
    Tom



    laksen Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    laksen:
     
    is that?

    Yes - I would advise you not to use them under any cirstances. Why?

    The DW/FW pop-ups will add at least 35K of code overhead to the first page
    using them, as well as a large dynamic write to *each* page containing the
    menus.

    You should also know that they link to your files using doent relative
    links that are hardcoded in your javacript - not only are these links
    invisible to the DW link management routines (i.e., when you move a page in
    the site, you break the link), but worse, they are also invisible to the
    search engine spiders, and accessability (508) requirements. The only way to
    solve the second problem is to make sure that your pages have alternate,
    HTML-based navigation links on them.

    I am not fond of these menus (as you have no doubt guessed) and feel that it
    is important to know what you are getting into before you may devote much
    time to them.

    There are some excellent alternatives to these pop-ups that have none of
    these problems. Here are two methods that are very simple -

    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm

    or

    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm

    Here is a method that is more 'hands on' but very slick and equally trouble
    free -

    http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/components/ypSlideOutMenus.xml
     

    Yes - it will (if you hold one eye closed), but then wait until you see what
    happens when you want to edit the menu. You can't....

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    ==================

    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:bupc1u$l59$macromedia.com... 
    about), would you still advise me to not use the DW/FW pop-up menus, and if,
    why is that? I like the way those menues are working/looking. 
    Library Items? 
    greyed out, I was not able to use it. If I add those pop-up menu first to a
    html-file in DW, and then save that file as a Template, will that Template
    work right? 


    Murray Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    You could use an i-frame. I'm not sure if that is the best idea or not. But I was having the same problem and that is what I did.


    mxsmetz Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    That would not solve any of the problems in a reliable way, however. It
    will fail on the Mac, as I recall.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    ==================

    "mxsmetz" <com> wrote in message
    news:bupfp4$psk$macromedia.com... 
    But I was having the same problem and that is what I did. 


    Murray Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    If you could look at one site "http://www.aktiv-fritid.no", I would like to make some site simular to that one, with many sides opening in the main/right frame. In the left frame I will make some menu-buttons and to those make the pop-up menues going out to the right. I know that this is a problem because the right frame will hide the pop-ups, but I think I could avoid that by not having the left and right frame. Just have the top frame and one frame under that one (left and right frame "merge to one frame).
    Or do you have some other good ide for a making a site like the "aktiv-fritid.no" and have menues doing nearly what I hope I could use?

    On the site "http://www.fourlevel.com/" and on the openingside, this is a menu that I could use.
     
     

    You suggest the use of http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm
    or
    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm
    What is it about those menues from, "www.fourlevel.com/", " www.projectseven.com", "www.youngpup.net/ ", that does them smaller in code then the DW/FW pop-up menus? Are they not some coding aswell as the DW/FW pop-up menus? What does the big differense?

    What about PVII“s Menu Magic? Will Menu Magic add about the same code overhead as DW/FW pop-ups and give the same linking problems?
     

    I will look at this one to.
     
    What is iFrame. Do you have to have a extension to Dreamweaver?
    I saw that Macromedia point to www.fourlevel.com for a extension.

    Thanks again.
    Tom



    laksen Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Tom:
     
    pop-ups, but I think I could avoid that by not having the left and right
    frame. Just have the top frame and one frame under that one (left and right
    frame "merge to one frame).

    But this would mean that you would have to put your menu code on EVERY page
    that opens in the main frame. That's a bad idea, and defeats the only
    reason you had for choosing frames in the first place.
     
    "aktiv-fritid.no" and have menues doing nearly what I hope I could use?

    I would build a non-framed site and use Templates or server-side includes to
    make maintenance of the menu system simple. I would not use frames at all.
     
    menu that I could use.

    Then by all means, use it! 8)
     
    www.projectseven.com", "www.youngpup.net/ ", that does them smaller in code
    then the DW/FW pop-up menus?

    The DW/FW pop-up menus are bulky because of the way they build the menu
    infrastructure from a series of complex javascript variable definitions and
    function statements. In the menu systems quoted above, that same menu
    structure is built by ordinary HTML and as a result, it is very much less
    bulky. In addition, the code that *is* used in the other menu systems has
    been carefully optimized. As a result, even a simple DW/FW menu on your
    page could add 40K to its weight, whereas the same menu built with the PVII
    method might only add 4K to your page.
     
    overhead as DW/FW pop-ups and give the same linking problems?

    No. It's quite slim as well. If you want an 'out of the box' menu system,
    this is a good one. My preference is to just build them myself, although I
    have used the MMII system (actually MMI) too.
     

    It is an inline frame - this would allow you to have a frame embedded within
    an ordinary webpage without having a frameset file. I don't encourage their
    use because they have most of the disadvantages of ordinary frames and are
    not supported at all in Netscape4x.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
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    ==================

    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:bur07e$k7b$macromedia.com... 
    to make some site simular to that one, with many sides opening in the
    main/right frame. In the left frame I will make some menu-buttons and to
    those make the pop-up menues going out to the right. I know that this is a
    problem because the right frame will hide the pop-ups, but I think I could
    avoid that by not having the left and right frame. Just have the top frame
    and one frame under that one (left and right frame "merge to one frame). 
    "aktiv-fritid.no" and have menues doing nearly what I hope I could use? 
    menu that I could use. [/ref]
    is that? 
    > [/ref]
    page [/ref]
    the 
    >
    > You suggest the use of[/ref]
    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm 
    www.projectseven.com", "www.youngpup.net/ ", that does them smaller in code
    then the DW/FW pop-up menus? Are they not some coding aswell as the DW/FW
    pop-up menus? What does the big differense? 
    overhead as DW/FW pop-ups and give the same linking problems? [/ref]
    trouble free - 
    >
    > I will look at this one to.

    > What is iFrame. Do you have to have a extension to Dreamweaver?
    > I saw that Macromedia point to www.fourlevel.com for a extension.
    >
    > Thanks again.
    > Tom
    >
    >[/ref]


    Murray Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Thanks for the recommendation on the different drop down menus. I made the switch and I like it much better. You can check them out at www.elemechinc.com. The site is still a work in progress but I would love to get some contructive criticism or other thoughts.

    I am going to get rid of the iframe soon!

    I just started using the MM tools and I really like them so far.


    mxsmetz Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Much better. Easier to work with. Spiderable. Small code base.

    And, I'll bet you learned something doing it too.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    ==================

    "mxsmetz" <com> wrote in message
    news:burk61$ig1$macromedia.com... 
    the switch and I like it much better. You can check them out at
    www.elemechinc.com. The site is still a work in progress but I would love
    to get some contructive criticism or other thoughts. 


    Murray Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Hi again and many thanks for the respons.

    I think I have to try the Menu Magic II by PVII or FadingMenuBuilder by Fourlevel.com. The cost for those extension are not very big.
    With one of those I think I will make a Template with the menues so I just have to adjust the menu one place.
    Do you know witch one of those to menues building the slimmest menues, smallest overload?

    Tom



    laksen Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Haven't used any of the Fourlevel tools. For PVII tools.... natively, TMM
    is probably the most lightweight because it is text based rather than image
    based. However, other things will play into it as far as the final size of
    your scripts, number of links, etc. If you are conservative, all of the
    PVII tools can be used to make fast loading pages. You might want to factor
    in some of the other differences when making your decision. The following
    was a breakdown of PVII tools that Al Sparber posted a while back:

    Menu Magic I
    Absolutely positioned
    Image-based triggers
    Animation (with cool tweaks available)
    Vertical only
    Single submenu level

    Menu Magic II
    Absolutely positioned
    Image-based triggers
    Themes
    3 menu orientations
    (vertical flyout)
    (horiz. dropdown)
    (horiz tab bar)
    Single submenu level

    Tree Menu Magic:
    Insert inside any containing element
    Sympathetic to table-based layouts
    Auto menu generation
    Seamless DW template integration
    Full Management in UI
    Pure text/CSS
    CSS Style themes
    Unlimited sub levels
    Vertical tree-style only

    Hope that helps....

    Cheers,
    Sam

    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:butdbr$iaa$macromedia.com... 
    Fourlevel.com. The cost for those extension are not very big. 
    have to adjust the menu one place. 
    smallest overload? 


    Sam Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Just so you'll know, you don't need to use any of those commercial menu
    tools to build a good menu. The methods taught in the tutorials I linked
    will do beautifully, and they are free.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:butdbr$iaa$macromedia.com... 
    Fourlevel.com. The cost for those extension are not very big. 
    have to adjust the menu one place. 
    smallest overload? 


    Murray Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    Hi once again.

    Murray says: 

    How do you measure these menues load/weight?

    Tom




    laksen Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Pop-up menues and Frames, use external javascript file?

    By looking at the size of the mm_menus.js file ---> 35K.

    By looking at the size of the menu specific javascript written into the
    <head> of each page containing a pop-up menu ---> 2-20K depending on the
    cpmplexity of the menu

    By looking at the volume of the dynamic write HTML that is written to each
    page after being fetched from the server ---> ~5K

    This means that even with a small and simple menu, your FIRST page fetched
    will behave as if it weighed 35+2+5 or 42K PLUS the existing weight of the
    rest of the code, external files, images, etc. Since the target weight for
    a webpage is 40-45K total, using the menus means that you have exceeded your
    target in menu code alone.

    You can ameliorate this somewhat by externalizing the embedded js code which
    will remove that 2-20K weight from all except the first page (once again).
    But there is nothing you can do about the hit that you take on the first
    page, or the size of the dynamic write on each page.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    ==================

    "laksen" <com> wrote in message
    news:bv2s7a$fnp$macromedia.com... [/ref]
    page [/ref]
    the 
    >
    > How do you measure these menues load/weight?
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    >
    >[/ref]


    Murray Guest

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