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Power point and "save for web" images - Adobe Photoshop Elements

Dear all, I am preparing a powerpoint presentation and want to add some images in this presentation. I selected some images by reducing these via the Save for the Web route. The images are now all around 100 Kb or less. However after having inserted them in the power point presentation these images seem to have returned to their "normal" size of sometimes 12 Mb. I feel that I am doing something wrong, but what? Looking forward to a reply. Robert...

  1. #1

    Default Power point and "save for web" images

    Dear all,

    I am preparing a powerpoint presentation and want to add some images in this presentation.
    I selected some images by reducing these via the Save for the Web route. The images are now all around 100 Kb or less.
    However after having inserted them in the power point presentation these images seem to have returned to their "normal" size of sometimes 12 Mb.
    I feel that I am doing something wrong, but what?

    Looking forward to a reply.

    Robert
    Schraven_Robert@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Robert,

    Are you, perhaps, seeing the difference between compressed (~100KB) and uncompressed (~12MB)? That is, Powerpoint is reporting the uncompressed size? I know both PSE2 and GraphicConverter report the size "in memory" which is the decompressed full size of the image.

    Check to see if, when you save the Powerpoint file, the file size goes up by ~12MB or if it is a smaller increase after adding an image. This would indicate whether or not Powerpoint is re-compressing the images when it saves.

    HTH

    Kyle
    Kyle_White@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Kyle,

    I checked that and the PP file índeed seems to save the uncompressed file. How can I get PP to save the compressed image?
    In case you're wondering I use powerpoint of Windows 2000.

    Compressed images received from others via e-mail remain as received. With other words these do not seem to be affected.

    Robert
    Schraven_Robert@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Robert, I just tried an experiment with PowerPoint 97. I opened a new blank
    presentation and inserted a Picture from file - in this case, a Save for Web
    image that's 800x600 pixels and 110 kb in size. It nicely filled the page,
    and I saved the presentation. Then I went and checked on the properties of
    the saved PP presentation: XP says its size is 146 kb (160kb on disk,
    whatever that means). I attribute the modest run-up in size to PowerPoint
    overhead. I did it a second time, putting three different pictures (110,114
    and 189 kb) on successive pages; size of saved PowerPoint is now 425 kb,
    pretty close to the sum of the three pix - very little overhead.

    Not sure why later version of PP would do that differently....?

    Chuck


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Robert, here's a guess:

    PowerPoint 2000 apparently has enhanced tools for picture editing: contrast, brightness, cropping, recoloring, etc. Perhaps, therefore, it doesn't save the individual pictures in their original format but rather saves an uncompressed version...? 97, with its less powerful tool set, seems to just keep the original JPEGs intact.

    I'm going to look some more in the Microsoft Knowledgebase...

    Chuck
    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Perhaps a little explanation might work here. JPG is NOT a compressed image in bytes when viewed. For an image to view or print, it has to have full pixels. Only when the image is closed and stored is the file in bytes compressed.The image format (JPG) reverses the algorithm of compression when opened (or placed in another program such as PowerPoint) much in the same way that a dried faux sponge pad is far smaller than when useable and water is applied. To get the sponge back to small physical size again (but now not useable), it's dried (algorithm applied). The only way to get the images within a program to have less bytes is to have that whole doent compressed. Those programs DO NOT recompress images individually, otherwise they'd have to have Scripts (or Actions) which would work the compression and placement of each image and that programing would defeat the image compression itself in most cases. However compression of the total doent is possible (such as a ZIP) which uses an entirely different method of compression. Hope this helps a bit in understanding compression. Note the size of a JPG file when closed (PC or MAC) and stored in a folder. Now open that same file in Elements and with it selected (click on it's title bar), go to Image, Resize, Image Size and note the filesize in bytes. It'll be far larger than the stored file because it's no longer compressed (the sponge has been wetted) until once again Saved. It's also not the same file. If you do NOT save it, just X it, the original File stays as it was, in compressed state. That, of course, you can't do with a sponge<g>.

    Bob
    BobHill@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Bob, I hear you....but apparently in PP 97 the images are saved in some
    way as the original JPEGs and only uncompressed when the presentation is
    opened. Otherwise, I'd expect the saved presentation to explode to
    TIFF-size and the file to become huge - which is what Robert is seeing in
    his version of PowerPoint and I most assuredly am not seeing in 97.
    PowerPoint must maintain some individual picture integrity, or you wouldn't
    be able to remove them individually when editing a previously saved
    presentation. Obviously, I have no clue what's happening within the code of
    PP, but can only report on the results.

    Chuck

    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Chuck,

    I have, but haven't used latest versions of PowerPoint, so I'm not sure how it works compression, but it could be using linked and not embedded files also. This would work, as there certainly are programs that will do that and inflate compressed files just fine. Therefore if images are linked instead of embedded, the original JPGs would have to be stored along with the PP file so the link could be established when called upon by the PP doent. This makes the PP file pretty small itself and possibly compressed by it's own algorithm as well.

    Bob
    BobHill@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Bob, thanks. I need to read about linked vs. embedded a little more in my
    PP book. I thought that Insert Picture from File would embed, but perhaps
    it links. After I get home from work I'll play around with that...

    Chuck


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Chuck,

    I'd guess that the default would be to embedd the image. If it allows for linked only, that would be a "choice" option, if anything, with most programs.

    Bob
    BobHill@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    I use PP 2000.
    Generally, the PP file itself will be a little *smaller* than the JPEG
    file you've embedded (as the .ppt format has it's own slight compression
    algorithm, somewhat like .psd in Photoshop).

    Make sure you have Fast Save turned OFF.
    This will make a .ppt file increase size in a hurry, as it saves
    incremental changes also, or some such (never have understood it, but
    it's a Bad Thing).

    Mac
    Mac_McDougald@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images


    <com> wrote ... 
    The images are now all around 100 Kb or less. 
    images seem to have returned to their "normal" size of sometimes 12 Mb. 

    I tried something similar with PSE 2 and PPT 2000. This did not happen with
    my file.

    What settings are you using with PSE (save for web), and are you
    manipulating the graphic in PPT?

    Ed


    Ed_Wurster@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Thank you all for your comments and for assuming that I am as much of a wizz kid as you all are. .-)

    What I understood is that in PP an image comes up as uncompressed hence the large file when saving.

    Ed is saying that he has PSE and PP and that it does not occur to his file nor does this happen with Chuck's in PP97.

    So something must be done differently by me.
    My thought is that I may have to save the file in "save for web" as a bitmap or psd instead of leaving it as a JPG or TIFF.

    I will try and come back with a result.

    Robert
    Schraven_Robert@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Right,

    I created an image as a bitmap but that went totally wrong. PP didn't recognise the bitmap.

    Then I went back to Save for Web and reduced the quality of the image to nearly nothing (i.e. 25Kb), then did a save. This time the amount of the image had been reduced from 12,1 to 2,3 Mb.
    Whilst typing this I believe I have solved it. So far I have been reducing only the file size of the image but left the image dimensions uncahgned except for the last one. I will now try and reduce file size ánd dimensions. I have a feeling that that would reduce Mb's considerably.

    Robert
    Schraven_Robert@adobeforums.com Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    For projection (or onscreen) purposes, you don't need anything over 1024
    pixels wide for PowerPoint unless you have a projector that does higher
    than 1024x768.

    Mac
    Mac_McDougald@adobeforums.com Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Robert, an 800x600 fills most of a slide the way my PP97 is configured; I
    don't even have to mess with the corner handles for pictures of those
    dimensions in landscape (horizontal long) mode.

    Chuck


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Put your screen at 1024x768 though, and you'll see that image suffer
    compared to one that's 1024 to begin with.
    Same for projection.

    Just a hint,
    Mac
    Mac_McDougald@adobeforums.com Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Mac, not sure what you're saying on this one; my screen res is 1024x768 and
    an image that size covers the whole slide and has to be downsized either by
    manipulating the handles or doing a Format>Picture. Guess it depends on
    whether you want a border or not.... When using PP, I'm usually adding some
    text; for a full-screen presentation, I enjoy the simplicity of Elements PDF
    slide show.


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Chuck, my point is, make a 1024 image and an 800 image.
    (make sure they are downsized from something larger so quality is there).

    Put both images in separate PP slides and change back and forth.
    You'll see the 1024 one is of significantly better quality.

    Point being that at 1024 display or projection, an 800 pixel image does
    not hit the min quality threshold for the display/projection.

    Mac
    Mac_McDougald@adobeforums.com Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Power point and "save for web" images

    Hmmm - I'm having trouble thinking that one through...will the projector
    show more pixels than appear on my screen? If I have a 1024x768 screen, a
    1024x768 image is the most I can show in Slide Show mode; when I use an
    800x600 picture, I have a white border of 112 pixels on left and right, 83
    pixels on top and bottom and the image takes the rest. But every pixel is
    still 'spoken for'..... I certainly agree that if I expand the 800x600 to
    fill the screen the quality will be less than if I had used the 1024x768 to
    begin with, but if the images are projected at different sizes....? I'm
    missing something....

    Chuck


    <


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

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