printer ink (im)permanence?

[Donald Pike]

I believe I have seen or heard reference to a spray "ink fixative", or some such thing, which will help photo-printer inks to stabilize or not fade too quickly. Does anyone have any information about it?
Thanks

Donald

[Beth Haney]

I'll let you know in a few years! :) I just bought a can of some stuff called "Sureguard" at the local camera store, which is what they recommended. It's primarily a UV protectorant. I think it was Brent that gave the name of one he's used in the past, but DeRusto is the only thing I can think of. (I'm not sure that's right, but I associated it with spray paint.) There's also one manufactured under the name Marshall, which is supposed to be very good, too. The camera place I shop hasn't been able to get any of it lately. I've been told you can buy this at craft stores. We have one called Michaels in our town, and the people I talked to looked at me like I was crazy, but I think it may have been just the salespeople I was talking to that weren't familiar with it. If you go to a place like that, look over by the oil paints. The Marshall brand is popular with artists because it apparently lets a person paint on top of a photograph that's been sprayed.

[brent bertram]

Donald and Beth,
I've used Krylon #1305 ( by Sherwin Williams) in the past with good results ( at least I've had no "bad" results ) . See the following link at Red River Paper , <http://www.redrivercatalog.com/Pages/archival_frameset.html> .

They compare results using the spray versus not using the spray.

:-)

Brent

[Eric Matthes]

I've read a little about this, but not much yet because I'm not crazy about spraying my prints. But I have read about the different kinds of papers available, and the difference between dye and pigment inks. I think I'd want to know more about this before I decided which prints to spray or not.
For example, I believe there is one kind of paper in which the ink sinks into the paper and actually becomes part of the paper. I believe there's another kind in which the ink sits on top of the paper and dries there. I thought one of these could be sprayed reasonably, and one would not really benefit from spraying. Am I on track here?

[Beth Haney]

Krylon! Yep Brent, that was it! I was close, though, wasn't I? :)

[John R. Collins]

Donald,
I believe that the main purpose of these fixative sprays are to prevent damage to the print from water droplets etc., which would cause smearing. Except for one bad HP colour cartridge, I have not had problems with fading (yet). The product I use (Inkjet fix) claims to have UV inhibitors and to protect against fading.

John

[JodiFrye]

Brent, how do you feel about the Epson Color Life paper ? I just bought some semigloss today. I also feel weird about 'spraying' something on the pictures. What if i spray too much or something...

[Barbara Brundage]

main purpose of these fixative sprays are to prevent damage




Actually, I know several professional photographers who believe that they have had a great deal of trouble with prints fading quickly when they did not use a spray.

[Bert Bigelow]

Inkjet prints have always been subject to fading. I thought that was the whole idea with the Epson 2000, and now the 2200 printers...the ink is supposedly longer lived. I haven't left any of my inkjet prints out in the sun, but looking at prints I made several years ago, I can't see any obvious fading. I figure, Hell, I'm 66 years old...how long to I want the prints to last, anyway? The files are on CD, so they can be reprinted by my heirs, if they're interested.
Bert

[Leen Koper]

The files are on CD, so they can be reprinted by my heirs, if they're interested.

Bert, there has been a research by some computer magazine and the consumer union (which usually prove they don't understand anything about their test subject ;-) ) in the Netherlands. This research showed many cd's will not last longer than just only a few years, especially the cheap ones.
I always print with pigmented inks on Epson coated paper. according to the Wilhelm Institute they should last -if I remember well- for about 70 years.
I'm 55 now, so .....

Leen

[imacgirl]

Leen,

I read about that very same thing in the Dallas Morning News Technology section earlier this month. It was the Dutch magazine called PC Active <http://www.aktu.nl/pc-active> that tested the CD's. The link here is in Dutch, thought you might want to look at it. I don't know any Dutch, so I'm not sure if this link tells you all about the tests or just sells the magazine.

From what I read in the tech section, they tested 30 manufacturers after 20 months of storage. They said recordable CD's may be the wrong way to store photos, music and data. What do they want us to use? Several data CD's degraded (didn't say which ones, wonder why), even after being stored at room temperature in the dark. The dye used to make cheaper CD-R discs is the problem. The most stable dye is usually found in the premium brands. Not sure if they are just trying to sell the premium brands, but you often do get what you pay for. Too bad they didn't test DVD's, I try to always the Verbatim brand for those.

I guess we're the guinea pigs for all this technology.

Barb

[Kenneth Liffmann]

The grandchildren or great-grandchildren will be able to restore these degraded images with Elements v.50!
Ken

[Bert Bigelow]

I knew there was some debate going on about CD longevity. I have used a lot of cheap ones...I have over 130 CDs full of images. I don't need them to last twenty years, or even five, probably. I expect to migrate the collection to new (and hopefully better) media every few years. Right now, I could go to DVDs, but I think I will skip a generation and go to DVD-Blue, which should be out in a year or two. They will have a capacity of 30 Gigabytes, so my whole collection would fit on three or four disks.
The 20-month figure you quoted scares me a little. I'm going to go back and test some of mine and make sure they're OK. I am storing them in special archival boxes made of low-acid cardboard, in a cool and dark closet. Humidity is low here in southern California, so that's not a problem.
Bert

[Barbara Brundage]

I'd kind of like to know who sponsored that research. Barb, do you know?

[Schraven Robert]

Barbara,

I read the article on the CD-R's in Dutch. It says that some CD's of poor quality lost most of their recorded material after all ready 20 months. However it was said that these were CD's that should not have been put on the market in the first place, that is how bad they are.
Íf you buy the magazine you get a CD with which you can find out how far your CD's are gone. They do not provide a solution in the article apart from recommending to buy good quality CD's.

I checked who the publisher is. The magazine has been in existence for over 12 years and is made by a group of pc-enthusiasts. I couldn't detect any commercial links at all.

Hope this helps.

Robert

[imacgirl]

Barbara, I do not know who sponsored it.

Thanks Robert, for telling us what the article said. It's nice to have an international forum like this. Hopefully the better brand CD-R's on the market will stand the test of time, we shall see.

Barb

[Chuck Snyder]

Barb, I'm going to do a life test on my CD-R's.

I'll report the results back to the forum in 42 1/2 years....as I approach my 100th birthday....

;-)

Chuck

[imacgirl]

Chuck, I'll look forward to your report! Very nice of you to do the testing. I'm sure we'll all still be here on this forum!

;-)

Barb

[Barbara Brundage]

Thanks for the information, Robert. I myself suspect it's going to be like floppies. I have boxes of them with old data, but it really doesn't matter whether they've gone bad or not, since I no longer have any way to access a floppy and long since transferred what really matters to other media.

Chuck, I'll be waiting. 42-1/2 years doesn't seem as long to me now as it would have 10 years ago. 8^)

[brent bertram]

Jodi,
" Brent, how do you feel about the Epson Color Life paper ? I just bought some semigloss today. I also feel weird about 'spraying' something on the pictures. What if i spray too much or something..."

Epson rates the Color Life paper at about 25 years before significant fading. That paper/ink combo, however, is not at all water resistant ( funny how these things work ) . If you do any Color Life prints that are not behind glass, I'd be inclined to spray them with one of the Krylon ( non glossy ) sprays .

I have some prints on the ColorLife paper that I really like. It seems like it gives a slightly more saturated color than either the Matte or Premium Glossy, that lends itself well to portraits. My youngest daughter ( Laura, 25 ) looks great on ColorLife ( her photo is over my desk <G> ).

:-)

Brent