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Printer Resolution, one more time - Adobe Photoshop Elements

We've had trouble keeping this on track. A couple of excellent questions were raised and answers were given, but some new questions were generated, too. It started here, last Friday night or Saturday morning (I saw most of the action on Saturday) BobHill "Printer Technology...all you "old pros" gather 'round" 9/29/03 8:50am </cgi-bin/webx?13.2ccd8d6b/105> Then we went here and got a little more information: Bert Bigelow "Question for Richard Lynch" 9/29/03 7:23pm </cgi-bin/webx?14.2ccd92e1/0> So, if anybody is interested in pursuing the subject of printer resolution, I, for one, will voluntarily zip my fingers and not drag it off topic again. :)...

  1. #1

    Default Printer Resolution, one more time

    We've had trouble keeping this on track. A couple of excellent questions were raised and answers were given, but some new questions were generated, too.

    It started here, last Friday night or Saturday morning (I saw most of the action on Saturday)

    BobHill "Printer Technology...all you "old pros" gather 'round" 9/29/03 8:50am </cgi-bin/webx?13.2ccd8d6b/105>

    Then we went here and got a little more information:

    Bert Bigelow "Question for Richard Lynch" 9/29/03 7:23pm </cgi-bin/webx?14.2ccd92e1/0>

    So, if anybody is interested in pursuing the subject of printer resolution, I, for one, will voluntarily zip my fingers and not drag it off topic again. :)
    Beth_Haney@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Well, I have an HP photo printer. When I first got it I spent hours on the HP website trying to understand all of the technical aspects of printing high-resolution photographs. All I was able to glean from all of my reading was that, with my printer, 200 to 300 DPI would "probably" provide acceptable results. My printer has a special printing mode that will allow me to print at 4800x1200 (or something like that), and whenever I decide to use it I get a warning that the printing will take a long time and that the resolution needs to be 600 DPI or greater (again, or something like that) in order for me to benefit from using that mode. I have only tried to print in that mode once, and I couldn't see enough difference to worry about it. After all my studying and experimenting and research and headaches and uncertainty, I have decided that it just doesn't matter. For me, if the print looks good, that is good enough. I have decided to start using Sam's Club to print my enlargements anyway. Their prices are very good, and so far I have been pleased with their quality. And I think it's cheaper than trying to print everything at home. I don't refill cartridges, so ink prices are an issue for me. What I have decided to do is print a 4x6 print to see if I like the results, and then I go to Sam's Club to print my enlargements. I honestly think it is cheaper that way.
    Jim_Hess@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Ok then, lets give this a try. I'm using a Cannon i550 printer at the moment, it can print at 4800x1200 with a droplet pitch of 1/4800 inch (greek to me.). The printer uses 4 ink tanks but the pictures I print out are not the same as I thought I sent to the printer, they wind out faded and more of a blue tint.

    I am using the color corection when printing, hoping that the colors would match, no such luck. I have tried various things to correct this, but still not right.It's not one of the high end printers, and I'm planning to buy the new Cannon 99000. Which uses a 6 tank system and prints in a lager format. I like to do my prints at at least 8x10",the new printer will alow me to print at I think it was 24x19.

    Back on topic, do you have any idea of how to correct this problem with the color? It is getting very expensive on paper, I use high end glossy paper. As for Jim's comment on the cost of doing your own prints, I had read in a few of the photo mags about a bulk ink tank system. If anyone knows about this system, let me know, I think it would be cheaper then $20.00 per cartage X 4.

    Emeril
    Emeril_Darose@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    About the only thing I have been able to figure out is to run Adobe Gamma and try to match your monitor to your print. I'm using a rather inexpensive LCD monitor on my computer, and I really like it. But I cannot seem to get the contrast to match my prints exactly. It's pretty close, but if I have a question, if the color or contrast is critical, I print the 4x6 and evaluate the results. Adobe has tutorials on how to color match your monitor, but it's not as easy as the tutorials would lead you to believe. It just seems to take a lot of experimenting to get good results. And even then, sometimes I get surprised with one of my prints and have to start all over again.
    Jim_Hess@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    As I said in the earlier thread on this subject, I am having a hard time getting to WYSIWYG. My problem is that the greens in the prints are just not as vivid as the reds and blues. I've played with the various printer driver settings (Epson Stylus Photo 780) without much success. It's an old printer, and I'm having constant problems with head clogging. I think it's new printer time, so I've kinda given up on trying to solve the color problem.
    I have run lots of tests with this printer to determine "optimal" resolution. Anywhere in the 200-300 ppi range seems to be OK. Anything higher just slows down the print and makes no discernable difference...to me, at least. It's such a subjective thing, though.
    I really think everyone just has to experiment with their printer and determine what works for them. There are no hard-and-fast rules.
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Jim, you say you've used Adobe's tutorial's on monitor calibration; have you tried Ian Lyon's? I've used Ian's but never Adobe's, so I don't know how much variation there is in the way each explains it. Emeril, you might want to check out each, too. It could be that the presentation varies enough so one would be more understandable to some people than the other. Or combining the information might fill in some gaps. I agree that it sounds like your problem should be addressed from the issue of monitor calibration first. If that doesn't clear up the problems you're having with prints, we can move on from there.

    <http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_1.htm>
    Beth_Haney@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Bert,

    I may be new to the digital darkroom, but what I read in all the mags dealing with D.D.R. there is no such thing as WYSIWYG, it's more like WYSIAWYG. (what you see is almost what you get). Even the printer companies say this, but it should be very close. I understand that a dye sup printer is the best but also one of the most expensive.

    Emeril
    Emeril_Darose@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time



    may be new to the digital darkroom, but what I read in all the mags dealing
    with D.D.R. there is no such thing as WYSIWYG, it's more like WYSIAWYG.
    (what you see is almost what you get). Even the printer companies say
    this, but it should be very close. I understand that a dye sup printer
    is the best but also one of the most expensive.




    Emeril,
    WYSIAWYG...I like that! Very true, but I think it should be possible to get a little closer with the greens in my case...the other colors are okay.
    "Dye sup" printers...is that like the Epson 2200? That's on my short list of new printer candidates, but the ink cartridges are outrageous! It's a seven-color printer, each cartridge costs $11, and you get about 30 8x10s out of a set of cartridges I have read. That's over #2.50 per print, just for the ink...er, dye.
    My Epson 780 runs about $1 per print. Somehow it just doesn't seem right to me that the ink costs more than the very best photo paper you can buy. Grumble, grumble...
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Bert, I believe it's 'Dye Sub', as in Dye Sublimation: a non-wet process
    found in some high end printers and some portables made by Canon and others.
    Here's a very simplified description of what it is:

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/question583.htm

    :-)

    Chuck


    Chuck_Snyder@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Thanks, Chuck....for the correction and the link.
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Chuck,

    Quick on the ball, Thanks for the link for other people to use. I didn't know of that one, saved me some typing time. Thanks.

    Emeril
    Emeril_Darose@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Beth,

    Thank you for the reference to that other tutorial. It cleared up many of the questions that remained unanswered in the Adobe tutorial. I used it on my monitor here at work today, and I can't wait to work through it with my monitor at home. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get at it until at least tomorrow night.

    On another note, I just got back another 8x10 enlargement from Sam's Club, and I'm personally very satisfied with the results. I'm seriously thinking about doing many of my enlargements that way.
    Jim_Hess@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    I'm glad you found it useful, Jim. That's a site I keep bookmarked, because Ian has a lot of really good stuff there.
    Beth_Haney@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time



    Somehow it just doesn't seem right to me that the ink costs more than
    the very best photo paper you can buy. Grumble, grumble...




    Bert,

    That's where all these printer company's make the real dough. Printers are just ink delivery systems so they practically give them away these days. Of course this doesn't apply so much to the higher end printers.

    Joe
    Joe_Henry1000@adobeforums.com Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Yeah, I know that, Joe. It doesn't make me happy, though, especially when you see their tactics to eliminate any competition, like "chipping" their ink cartridges so they can't be refilled, and changing the design of the cartridges for each new printer model to keep the "copycats" from producing competitive products.
    If Microsoft engaged in these tactics, the Justice Department would crucify them for unfair competitive practices, restraint of trade or whatever. Yet, they get by with it all the time.
    Buying a printer these days is really tough, because you lock yourself into the manufacturer's supply chain...over which he has monopolistic control. I HATE it! I would like to boycott the lot of them! I hope some new printer manufacturer will come along eventually and say, "Here, buy my printer. Cartridges for it will be available from multiple sources, because our cartridge designs are open, and have been published so that competition will make inexpensive supplies available to you."
    I would buy that printer in a flash, even if it cost more.
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time



    "I hope some new printer manufacturer will come along eventually and say,
    "Here, buy my printer. Cartridges for it will be available from multiple
    sources, because our cartridge designs are open, and have been published
    so that competition will make inexpensive supplies available to you."




    Wouldn't that be a great day? I'll buy that printer too!

    Joe

    EDIT: I just noticed the ink low light blinking on my Epson ink delivery system. Stand by while I load another $20 black ink cartridge. ;-)
    Joe_Henry1000@adobeforums.com Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Bert,

    I have been living with a Canon BJ6000 for a couple of years, now, and have
    been waiting for a convergence of price between machine, ink and paper to
    upgrade.

    That is, until a few weeks ago, when I took the first batch of images to the
    local Costco for printing.

    The upshot is that I get to use a multi-thousand dollar printer for between
    19, for a 4x6 print, and $2.99 for a 12x18 print. (It is a Noritsu
    #something) The images are printed on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, and are
    of a quality I have not seen from any consumer-level printer. The price is
    unbeatable, for me, as well.

    I am no longer in the market for a new printer, given the easy access and
    spectacular results from this commercial source.

    Of course, everything would be different if I did not live within easy reach
    of Costco. So I do not diminish the anguish which results from trying to
    decide between variious hardware vendors, with the associated consumable
    expenses. (I forget the correct attribution of the phrase, but the
    sentiment applies in "Give 'em the razor, sell 'em the blades")

    I only detail my opting to not purchase a current-generation printer to
    provide one extreme in the gamut of the printer experience matrix.

    Byron


    Byron_Gale@adobeforums.com Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    I find that with my Epson 785 exp the black ink lasts much longer than the colored ink. The black ink is more expensive than the colored ink...thank goodness it's not the other way around. I did notice a site that sells Epson paper and ink at a very low cost. I e-mailed them and asked if they could guarantee that the ink was not 'old' and/or 'stale'...I got no reply. Keep in mind that 'old and/or stale' ink WILL clog Epson print heads. I made the mistake ONCE and bought ink that was on sale ( there is a reason for that )...my ink heads clogged twice before I got through the cartridge...not a usual happening from my experience with my printer. So...buyer beware when it comes to ink.
    Jodi_Frye@adobeforums.com Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time



    I find that with my Epson 785 exp the black ink lasts much longer than
    the colored ink. The black ink is more expensive than the colored ink...




    That's true for my 780 also, Jodi. The colored ink cartridge, in my case, has five ink colors in it, and is much larger than the black cartridge. Why does the black one cost more? Answer: Because it lasts longer, so they want to make more money on each one. That is the only reason I can think of.
    I've had very bad luck with refilled...or refilling...cartridges.
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Printer Resolution, one more time

    Byron,
    Those are really good prices. I just like doing it at home where I can look at the results, maybe tweak the image in Photoshop and try again. It's a hobby for me, so have fun doing the whole process. And it's quite a distance to the nearest Costco, although I suppose there might be other stores around with similar facilities.
    I will consider that for large-format prints, though, so thanks for the idea.
    Bert
    Bert_Bigelow@adobeforums.com Guest

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