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Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari - Macromedia Fireworks

on http://www.theforeigner-japan.com I'm using the Dreamweaver / Fireworks pop up menu. I made some adaptations in order to be able to show the menus in a different frame, according to the Macromedia tutorial. (my menu is in an iframe) Though it works perfectly on Internet Explorer the links within the menu don't work in Netscape and Safari. Even worse, the menus don't auto hide in Safari at all, they just stay there until a link is followed or the page is reloaded. What can I do to make it work? JavaScript is JavaScript I think, right? You can find a ...

  1. #1

    Default Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    on http://www.theforeigner-japan.com I'm using the Dreamweaver / Fireworks pop up menu.
    I made some adaptations in order to be able to show the menus in a different frame, according to the Macromedia tutorial. (my menu is in an iframe)

    Though it works perfectly on Internet Explorer the links within the menu don't work in Netscape and Safari.

    Even worse, the menus don't auto hide in Safari at all, they just stay there until a link is followed or the page is reloaded.

    What can I do to make it work? JavaScript is JavaScript I think, right?

    You can find a screenshot from Safari and the link to the javascript below.

    Please help

    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
    - Calvin & Hobbes

    visit The Foreigner - Japan

    Referring URLs
    http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/mm_menu.js
    http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/funkystuff/funky_dropdowns_02.jpg



    EelcoH Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    You'd be much better off not using frames, and not using the FW pop-up
    menus. But let's see if there is any help for you under this thread....

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "EelcoH" <com> wrote in message
    news:bufucm$hgk$macromedia.com... 
    pop up menu. 
    different frame, according to the Macromedia tutorial. (my menu is in an
    iframe) 
    don't work in Netscape and Safari. 
    there until a link is followed or the page is reloaded. 
    below. 
    that none of it has tried to contact us. 


    Murray Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    Murray *TMM* wrote:
     

    Frames being the lesser of two evils here... by a tiny margin... ;-)

    Stéphane Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    I've heard many people discourage the use of JavaScript links and Frames. Most problems are related to spiderability, loading times, bookmarking and hot linking.

    It's taken a while, but most of these problems have been addressed on my website. It's completely spiderable, special bookmark links have been added that will enable you to bookmark any and every page, and hot linked pages are forced to load in the correct frame set, so you never lose any menus.

    Of course if a browser is not frames enabled you'll be missing out, but what browser nowadays can't handle frames? So the only real thing that remains a problem are loading times, especially on the first visit as all javascript files need to be loaded. But the increased access you get from pop up menus is well worth that sacrifice in my opinion.

    If people decide to disable JavaScript or cookies that's their choice. If they lose out on functionality on my website, they know how to fix it.

    The only problem I still have at this moment is that Netscape and Safari can't handle the popup menus properly. At this moment about 10% of my visitors use Netscape or other browsers than IE. Though it's not enough to change my entire website for, it is a substantially big enough group to try and accomodate them by making the script work.

    I heard from people that some scripts are not recognized by Netscape, but I also read that the Fireworks popup script is a modification of a script released by Netscape, so I would think it should work. Maybe it's the fact that the menus are loaded in a different frameset, and the changes I had to make to make that happen are the problem.

    I followed the instructions on this page to the letter: http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/ts/doents/fwmx_pop-up_menusnframesets.htm

    I also had a look at this page to solve my current problem, however it doesn't take (I'm using Netscape 7 to check)
    http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/ts/doents/netscape_4_nolinks.htm


    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
    - Calvin &amp; Hobbes

    visit The Foreigner - Japan
    EelcoH Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    "EelcoH" com wrote:
     

    They've been addressed how? I looked quickly but I did not see text
    links to compensate for the unaccessibility of the FW Popup Menus. I
    also don't see any compelling reasons to use frames in your design.

    If you want to solve your menu problems, dump the Fireworks ones and use
    either of these free alternatives:

    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm
    http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm

    .... or these commercial alternatives:

    http://www.projectseven.com/tmm684RT/index.htm
    http://www.projectseven.com/mm2/index.htm

    They all work fine in a wider variety of browsers than the FW popups.
     

    That's the wrong attitude to have. Some people cannot use JavaScript
    enabled browsers wether they'd like to or not. It's your job to make
    sure that they have alternative means to navigate your site anyway. You
    design for your users, not to make YOUR like easier. All 4 of the
    alternativeas above are accessible by design without further efforts on
    your part because all the menu markup appears right on the page instead
    of being written dynamically to the page by JavaScript which is the core
    problem and most severe drawback of the FW/DW Popup Menus.
     

    Released by Netscape... in 1997... It's not only completely outdated by
    now but the whole appraoch of the FW/DW Popups is badly flawed by
    design. Any mission critical feature of a Web site (and basic navigation
    certainly qualifies) should NEVER rely on JavaScript alone. This is one
    of the most basic site usability principle and it is a real shame that
    the DW and FW teams have chosen to ignore it when they designed their
    popup menu implementation.

    HTH!

    Stéphane Bergeron

    Stéphane Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    Thanks for the links, I'll definitely try and get them to work.

    The real problem I have though is that the menu needs to be in every page, and will be updated every month. I can't go through every page and change the menu page by page, so something that will be called in each page would be my preferred choice.

    About frames:
    I would love to see a website where frames do serve a purpose, beyond keeping the basic navigation links always in the window.

    About text links:
    Though I don't offer text links for each popup menu item in every page, clicking the button which opens the link will bring you to an index page where you can find these individual links. In this way having JavaScript enabled will improve access to the page, not having it enabled will not limit visitors in any way (if JavaScript is disabled, people will see the images as normal links). Everything can be found and accessed. If all else fails (or if your browser isn't frames enabled) there's always the sitemap (far from ideal, I know, but people will be able to access all pages).


    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
    - Calvin &amp; Hobbes

    visit The Foreigner - Japan
    EelcoH Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    > beyond keeping the basic navigation links always in the window.

    That's not a purpose. That's an affectation that the creator of the page is
    not able to move beyond.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com - Template Triage!
    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "EelcoH" <com> wrote in message
    news:buh44o$b0h$macromedia.com... 
    and will be updated every month. I can't go through every page and change
    the menu page by page, so something that will be called in each page would
    be my preferred choice. 
    keeping the basic navigation links always in the window. 
    clicking the button which opens the link will bring you to an index page
    where you can find these individual links. In this way having JavaScript
    enabled will improve access to the page, not having it enabled will not
    limit visitors in any way (if JavaScript is disabled, people will see the
    images as normal links). Everything can be found and accessed. If all else
    fails (or if your browser isn't frames enabled) there's always the sitemap
    (far from ideal, I know, but people will be able to access all pages). 
    that none of it has tried to contact us. 


    Murray Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    In article <buh44o$b0h$macromedia.com>,
    "EelcoH" com wrote:
     

    That's easy to solve: make the menu a Dreamweaver Library item, and/or
    put it into a template used by all your pages. DW will ask to update the
    entire site automatically.

    But that still doesn't fix the fundamental problems with FW pop-up menus.

    --
    Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
    http://www.hummingbirds.net/
    Lanny Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    Is there a way to do it so I only need to update one file? Some sort of external page I can call in every page I make.

    Updating the site all at once would work as long as the site isn't becoming too large, or if I had my own server on which I could work. But re-uploading every page of the website every time increases the risk of uploads not being completed and the subsequent errors on the site. Not to mention that ultimately uploading 500 pages or more would take an enormous amount of time.

    The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
    - Calvin &amp; Hobbes

    visit The Foreigner - Japan
    EelcoH Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Problems with pop up menus in Netscape and Safari

    In article <buhai5$ka9$macromedia.com>,
    "EelcoH" com wrote:
     

    That's what Dreamweaver templates are for.
     

    My site only has about 125 pages, and my computer isn't fast. Applying a
    template edit to all pages takes around 15 seconds. Uploading them takes
    longer, perhaps a minute--remember, you're only uploading HTML, no big
    images. I usually upload 20 at a time (drag-and-drop), in case of
    problems. Dreamweaver can take care of the uploads, too.

    The best solution is probably using a server-side include, if your
    server permits. I keep telling myself I'll learn how to do that one
    day...

    --
    Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
    http://www.hummingbirds.net/
    Lanny Guest

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