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Provia or Velvia for static aircraft? - Photography

Dear Newsgroup, any thoughts? If it is dull then Velvia might be a good plan but will it be too contrasty if it is a cloudless day? I am talking here in relation to the static aircraft. I will probally use Provia. For the flying aircraft I am considering Provia 400, Sensia 400 and Surperia X-tra 800 (print). I know I can hand hold OK with a 200mm lens but am hoping I can get away with a 500mm mirror lens. I have managed this with mixed results in the past. Pete -- [email]petepetezilla.co.uk[/email] [url]http://www.petezilla.co.uk[/url]...

  1. #1

    Default Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Dear Newsgroup,

    any thoughts? If it is dull then Velvia might be a good plan but will
    it be too contrasty if it is a cloudless day? I am talking here in relation
    to the static aircraft. I will probally use Provia.

    For the flying aircraft I am considering Provia 400, Sensia 400 and Surperia X-tra 800 (print). I know I can hand hold OK with a 200mm lens but am hoping I can get away with a 500mm mirror lens. I have managed this with mixed results in the past.

    Pete


    --
    [email]petepetezilla.co.uk[/email]
    [url]http://www.petezilla.co.uk[/url]

    Peter Chant Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Peter Chant writes:
    > any thoughts? If it is dull then Velvia might be
    > a good plan but will it be too contrasty if it is
    > a cloudless day?
    That's pretty much my view. If it's an overcast day, Velvia could put
    some pop into the photos. On a bright, sunny summer day, though, the
    contrast becomes very difficult to handle.
    > I am talking here in relation to the static aircraft.
    > I will probally use Provia.
    Provia is my standard film, and it's also what I use when I don't know
    what else to use. Plus it's twice as fast as Velvia, and it's not quite
    so delicate to scan because of the lower contrast.
    > For the flying aircraft I am considering Provia 400, Sensia 400
    > and Surperia X-tra 800 (print). I know I can hand hold OK with a
    > 200mm lens but am hoping I can get away with a 500mm mirror lens.
    > I have managed this with mixed results in the past.
    200mm is no problem handheld at that speed in daylight, as long as
    you're in practice, although I've done mostly slower-moving subjects
    (such as people). I'm not familiar with Sensia and Superia, but
    remember that Provia 400F is a bit softer, a little bit grainier, and a
    bit more saturated than Provia 100F. It's often hard to tell the
    difference between them, but you can tell if you look close (with a
    loupe), as there are no razor-sharp fine details on 400F.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
    Mxsmanic Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    [email]petepetezilla.co.uk[/email] (Peter Chant) wrote in message news:<bf4lak$ug7$1phoenix.fire>...
    > Dear Newsgroup,
    >
    > any thoughts? If it is dull then Velvia might be a good plan but will
    > it be too contrasty if it is a cloudless day? I am talking here in relation
    > to the static aircraft. I will probally use Provia.
    >
    > For the flying aircraft I am considering Provia 400, Sensia 400 and Surperia X-tra 800 (print). I know I can hand hold OK with a 200mm lens but am hoping I can get away with a 500mm mirror lens. I have managed this with mixed results in the past.
    >
    > Pete
    Kodachrome by far gives more accurate colors and far better definition
    than any of the films you mentioned.
    Michael Scarpitti Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Michael Scarpitti writes:
    > Kodachrome by far gives more accurate colors and far
    > better definition than any of the films you mentioned.
    Not any Kodachrome I've seen. Provia 100F equals or surpasses
    Kodachrome 64 (the best Kodachrome still available).

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
    Mxsmanic Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mxsmanic <mxsmanichotmail.com> wrote in message news:<098chv8dpor7ngj8upndq7r8unnau76jal4ax.com>. ..
    > Michael Scarpitti writes:
    >
    > > Kodachrome by far gives more accurate colors and far
    > > better definition than any of the films you mentioned.
    >
    > Not any Kodachrome I've seen. Provia 100F equals or surpasses
    > Kodachrome 64 (the best Kodachrome still available).
    Try PKR (K64 pro) then get back to me. You'll be stunned!
    Michael Scarpitti Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > Michael Scarpitti writes:
    >
    > > Kodachrome by far gives more accurate colors and far
    > > better definition than any of the films you mentioned.
    >
    > Not any Kodachrome I've seen. Provia 100F equals or surpasses
    > Kodachrome 64 (the best Kodachrome still available).
    >
    Kodachrome 64 still beats the pants off any E6 film for colour accuracy
    and saturation and believe me, have tried just about every E6 film in an
    attempt to find a replacement. The closest i've got is Kodak e100s
    pushed one stop to 200, but even then, the colour still has that mickey
    mouse E6 look about it...

    Chris
    Chris Quayle Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mxsmanic <mxsmanichotmail.com> wrote in message news:<098chv8dpor7ngj8upndq7r8unnau76jal4ax.com>. ..
    > Michael Scarpitti writes:
    >
    > > Kodachrome by far gives more accurate colors and far
    > > better definition than any of the films you mentioned.
    >
    > Not any Kodachrome I've seen. Provia 100F equals or surpasses
    > Kodachrome 64 (the best Kodachrome still available).
    Not in sharpness, deninition, or color accuracy!

    Railroad guys swear by Kodachrome. STATIC planes? Kodachrome!
    Michael Scarpitti Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    > Kodachrome 64 still beats the pants off any E6 film for colour accuracy
    > and saturation and believe me, have tried just about every E6 film in an
    > attempt to find a replacement. The closest i've got is Kodak e100s
    > pushed one stop to 200, but even then, the colour still has that mickey
    > mouse E6 look about it...
    Then how come it isn't widely used? Is the processing just too
    complicated and expensive?


    Mike Marty Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mike Marty wrote:
    >
    >
    > Then how come it isn't widely used? Is the processing just too
    > complicated and expensive?
    I don't have any evidence to say it isn't widely used, but the fact that
    K25 was dumped by Kodak would suggest that this is the case. Perhaps
    because it was just too slow for the modern idiom of f4 zoom lenses to
    get critical sales volume.

    Also,

    A) It's old and considered unfashionable

    B) It can require more effort to setup to scan with low end scanners

    There is much more competition now from the E6 end than 10-20 years ago,
    Kodak don't seem to be making any real effort to promote Kodachrome any
    more and there doesn't seem to be any ongoing development plan. I guess
    it's more hassle for them, since the processing is more complex and
    perhaps the manufacturing is more complex as well, so perhaps they are
    just letting it slowly fade away. I can't see that price is an issue, at
    least in the uk, since a roll of K64 process paid is around 6.00 ukp
    here, while stuff like Velvia is more expensive if you include
    processing.

    I still think it's a pretty stunning film when correctly exposed. Try a
    roll or two on early morning sun on buildings / landscape and the same
    in early evening, towards sunset to see what I mean. Then compare with
    Velvia or similar.

    Chris
    Chris Quayle Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Michael Scarpitti writes:
    > Try PKR (K64 pro) then get back to me.
    I have. That's the Kodachrome I was comparing with.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
    Mxsmanic Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    In article <c46ehvkcq3apaca83862c4pcvhko4vj5do4ax.com>,
    Mxsmanic <mxsmanichotmail.com> writes:
    > Michael Scarpitti writes:
    >
    >> Try PKR (K64 pro) then get back to me.
    >
    > I have. That's the Kodachrome I was comparing with.
    Look on the good side, Kodachrome versus Velvia is more on topic than
    film v digital!

    --
    [email]petepetezilla.co.uk[/email]
    [url]http://www.petezilla.co.uk[/url]

    Peter Chant Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mike Marty <mikemcs.NOSPAMwisc.edu> wrote in message news:<bf6uit$mr3$1news.doit.wisc.edu>...
    > > Kodachrome 64 still beats the pants off any E6 film for colour accuracy
    > > and saturation and believe me, have tried just about every E6 film in an
    > > attempt to find a replacement. The closest i've got is Kodak e100s
    > > pushed one stop to 200, but even then, the colour still has that mickey
    > > mouse E6 look about it...
    >
    > Then how come it isn't widely used? Is the processing just too
    > complicated and expensive?
    Lazyness and ignorance on the part of Kodak in not promoting a superior product.
    Michael Scarpitti Guest

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    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

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    Michael Scarpitti Guest
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    co.uk (Peter Chant) wrote:
     


    For your stated purpose, I cannot think of a better combination of
    films than Provia 100F and 400F. For high speed shots you may wish to
    push 400F to ISO 800 or 1000. Any higher than 1000 and the contrast
    and granularity increase very rapidly.


    T Guest

  15. Moderated Post

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

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    Michael Guest
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Chris Quayle writes:
     

    I think the expense and delay of Kodachrome processing is the main
    reason why it is so rarely used today. A second reason of probably
    similar importance is that E-6 long ago improved to the point that
    Kodachrome has no clear advantage over E-6 in terms of image quality.
    Kodachrome looks very nice, but so does Provia; given that, why pay
    twice as much for Kodachrome and wait ten times as long to get it
    processed?

    Other reasons include the slower speed of Kodachrome and the absence of
    Kodachrome in any format other than 35mm.

    Kodak has pretty much killed off Kodachrome. It would still be going
    strong if Kodak had pushed it harder. But Kodak always seems to kill
    off the products that succeed the most (Kodachrome, Ektar), and then
    throws money out the window on products that fail miserably (e.g., the
    Kodak Disc Camera, APS).

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    Mxsmanic Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Michael Scarpitti writes:
     

    Which component?

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    Mxsmanic Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Michael Scarpitti writes:
     

    I don't trust the naked eye alone. That's why I looked with a
    microscope.
     

    I do. I want to be able to remember what I shot when I get it back.
     

    And two hours in the light.
     

    Not if the larger formats are using Provia, Velvia, or any one of dozens
    of other fine-grained, high-resolution films.
     

    Since I scan, I just make sure everything comes out right in
    post-production.

    --
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    Mxsmanic Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    Mxsmanic wrote: 

    Yep, the delay in processing must make life difficult for the pro user,
    but at least here in the uk, Kodachrome with process paid is quite a bit
    cheaper than E6 + process and mount, at least for all the top end E6
    labels. It would be interesting to see the figures for Kodachrome sales
    volume over the past few years to see how much it has fallen off the
    edge. It's certainly available everywhere in the uk, so sales volumes
    must still be reasonably good, otherwise the stores wouldn't stock it. I
    think it does all come down to marketing and user awareness / perception
    of the product though. If Kodak were to mount a serious ad campaign,
    sort out the processing delays and appear even minimally interested,
    volumes would rise, as would user perception of the product.
     

    Well, you can't expect logic and reason from large companies. There are
    similar parallels in the industry I work in, where (for example) the
    best and fastest processor in the world by a wide margin (Alpha) was
    killed off purely for political reasons. Am posting from a computer with
    one of those cpu's right now and am still annoyed with the company
    concerned, but hey, that's life :-)...

    Chris
    Chris Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Provia or Velvia for static aircraft?

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:07:32 +0100, Chris Quayle
    <co.uk> wrote:

     


    The company in question -- DEC -- died off because of
    greed and hubris. Plain and simple. That's not to say
    that Intel doesn't have their share of greed and hubris,
    of course. Quite enough of that to go around.

    Ken Olson blithely assumed that the world coudn't live
    without Vaxen and VMS. DEC took their clients and their
    market for granted and treated them arrogantly.

    So then DEC was bought by Compaq, which then went
    down the tubes in pretty much the same manner,
    eventually being assimilated into the HP borg.

    Whining about the demise of the Alpha chip is no more
    useful than whining about the demise of the Amiga or the
    Motorola 68000 cpu or the Sony Betamax, IMHO.

    (Though he 68000 lives on in millions of Palm PDAs
    nowadays.)

    AMD, Samsung, Hyundai and Linux prove that the
    giants can be challenged with worthwhile alternative
    products. Of course, Samsung and Hyundai have
    become giants themselves.

    The web exists mostly due to dirt cheap PC platforms
    built in Taiwan or PRC, powered by AMD cpus, running
    free Apache servers. Netscape is history.


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
    Rafe Guest

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