PS CS and serious memory problems under OS X (Panther)

[Thomas_Clement@adobeforums.com]

I have a dual 500 Mhz G4 with 1.25 Go of Ram, under OS 9 I can give PS 900000 ko of memory without problem and the system has still enough memory to run nicely.
But under OS X, even when giving to PS only 60 % of the memory (which gives MUCH slower performances than giving 900000 ko in OS 9), the system has still no ram left and is swapping (I can see it in System Activity) !!!! Only PS is opened, nothing else.
680 Mo is used by PS (the 60 %) but the problem is that 600 Mo are ALSO used by inactive memory in more of the first 680 Mo used by PS ! So it seems that even if I ask PS to let a lot of memory to the system, it continues to put a lot of memory in inactive state and the system is swapping (and it's so slooowwww when swapping).
What should I do ? Is this normal (I don't know what is this inactive memory for) ? It's like if I have just 512 Mo of Ram compared to OS 9...

[Ramón_G_Castañeda@adobeforums.com]

What version of OS X? Therein may lie your problem. Or you could have a bad install, or bad RAM or ....

[Thomas_Clement@adobeforums.com]

Mac OS X 10.3.2, the install is clean as far as I know. There's three ram of 256 Mo and one of 512 Mo physically installed, never had problem with the ram, I don't think the problem is there.

[povimage@adobeforums.com]

There are memory problems on the Windows side as well.. Sounds like CS has an inborn memory management problems.

See the following threads:

CS Memory Leak
<http://tinyurl.com/2floe>

PS CS eventual slow down
<http://tinyurl.com/2ja3a>

CS Problems
<http://tinyurl.com/27gb8>

Of course, in each thread it seems that people responding initially deny it's an issue, but then after users exhaust all the suggestions, they admit that Adobe IS researching a problem along these lines.

That's what happens when you use proprietary memory management (in effect a mini self-contained OS) and don't test it on enough hardware and/or real OSes before you release the full version upgrade.. That's also why other applications generally leave memory management to the OSes. Fighting with modern OSes to control the memory is bound to result in problems sometimes. Especially since BETA testing today goes out to smaller subsets of the user community (as a % of installed users than it did in the past).

Welcome to the land of Version 1.0 as BETA.

[povimage@adobeforums.com]

Hmmmmm..... Most of the Windows versions of the problems seem to be on DUAL CPU machines too, as is this instance on Panther..

Hey Adobe, how many BETA testers for PS CS on the Windoze and Mac sides were running Dual CPU installations...? For most ISVs (Independent or Third Party Software Vendors), one could excuse testing on very many "exotic" dual CPU boxes, but Adobe KNOWS that dualies are used by a good number of full-time PS professionals.

Keith

[Thomas_Clement@adobeforums.com]

Well that's very bothering, it seems like I must told PS to use only 50 % of the memory to avoid the system to swap. And still the inactive memory is taking 450 Mo for... nothing it seems ! Really I have the impression to have 768 Mo of Ram, that's a lot slower than in OS 9.
Also I forgot to told that I'm working on huge files size...

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

Thomas Get more RAM. its cheap

[Larryr544@adobeforums.com]

I agree with Buko. This is a quick way to quickness.

[Thomas_Clement@adobeforums.com]

Yes of cours, but I don't have the money right now even if the price is affordable. The problem is not there, the problem is that PS in OS X is far less efficient than in OS 9, I don't know if it's an Apple or Adobe problem (Adobe it seems), but something could be done about this.

And for the memory, my 4 slots are busy, so I have to throw away the 256 Mo of Ram for 512 Mo, that makes it more expansive (I get 256 Mo more for the price of 512 Mo).
Actually that's the reason why I didn't buy more ram until now but now that I'm on OS X, I'm almost forced to buy more (unfortunately)...

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

PS in OS X is far less efficient than in OS 9




Chris Cox has admitted that photoshop is about 5% slower in OSX but this discussion has been covered back when PS7 came out and we were all starting to use OSX. if you were using one of the New G5s It would be plenty fast.

More RAM and having a second drive to put the photoshop scratch on will help you speed things up.

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

With more recent versions of OS X, the speed compared to OS 9 is faster or the same.

And I wish I knew what forums povimage was reading - he seems to be drawing conclusions out of thin air....

[progress@adobeforums.com]

think people are hitting the 2gb ram limit faster with CS and OSX which is causing the drag...i cant wait till PS CS can play with all 8gb...

how far off are we chris?

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

I can't say, of course.

[zoozx@adobeforums.com]

Seeing the same slow downs here.

[Steve_Vespucci@adobeforums.com]

Stomp your foot once for "soon" Chris and twice for "it may not happen in our life time."

[povimage@adobeforums.com]

Chrix Cox said:

And I wish I knew what forums povimage was reading - he seems to be drawing
conclusions out of thin air....




Ok, Chris, I'll make this even more explicit than it was in my earliest post on this thread..

Scott Byer (Know Him?) said, at
"PS CS eventual slow down"
<http://tinyurl.com/2ja3a> :

Scott Byer - 12:22pm Feb 5, 2004 Pacific (#11 of 12)





Yes, there might be a problem, and we're still trying to collect enough
information to reproduce the issue and to figure out exactly what's going
on.





-Scott




And Dave Milbutt said in
"CS Problems"
<http://tinyurl.com/27gb8>

If you've read any of the threads on this issue you'd know that they suspect
something is funky somewhere but they're having a hard time pinning it
down.




Chris, it also doesn't help track down the issues when you blame it on users; as you posted in that same thread:

we have most of the systems. But the problems don't happen. That usually
means it is some other software, or some non-standard configuration that
the user changed that is causing part (or all) of the problems.




Since one of the suggestions Adobe has made to some users on the Windoze/M$ platform side is to "disable Hyperthreading in the BIOS," I'd say at least sometimes that it is Photoshop CS that REQUIRES a "custom configuration" in some cases to work properly. Moreso, your post indicates, as have the posts of other Adobe staff, that there is believed to be some problem, but it hasn't been isolated yet.

Beyond that Chris, I might note that as helpful as Adobe tech support has tried to be in my case (a dual PIIIe 1gHz system), ImageReady CS still doesn't even load fully.. It just dies! Their BRILLIANT answer after sending me tech documents on application crashes prepared specifically for PS 7.0? "Reformat your hard drive and do a clean install of PS CS and ImageReady CS. If you aren't willing to do that, we can't help you."

Funny thing is ImageReady CS worked fine in the Trial Version, but the Retail upgrade version has never worked since I loaded the software. Maybe I should have foregone the upgrade and simply hacked the trial version, at least the software would probably still work properly then!

I don't care how helpful the Tech Support people try to be, if the application doesn't work I deserve a partial refund for the missing ImageReady functionality.

To paraphrase a metaphor, talk about "the vendor always being right."

BTW: We all know that broader end-user/consumer BETA testing WOULD expose the software to more REAL WORLD prouction systems, and you'd see more of these problems then - when ISV's are supposed to isolate and address them. You'd think that Adobe would ensure the broadest possible BETA testing of its arguably flagship product.. These kinds of issues showing up in PS CS and mine in ImageReady CS, don't lead one to believe that sufficient time and effort is being spent on bullet-proofing during BETA. When I worked full-time in the IT biz, as a system analyst, EDP auditor, and computer security admin, I would have highlighted these problems and refused project completion payments until they were fixed. I DON'T pull stuff out of thin air, but THANK YOU for playing the toadying sycophantic defender of Adobe's corporate honor in this heart-warming little tableau, at the least it allows me to point out the facts and relate your own quotes.

HINT 1: Spend more time finding problems and fixing them and LESS time trying to shoot down people who can cite facts.

HINT 2: If are likely to need to contradict yourself, for whatever reason, don't leave a paper trail.

HINT 3: As was said in an old Monty Python sketch called "Crunchy Frog" when it was suggested that the chocolates bear on their box a large warning of some rather unusual components: "But our sales will plummit".. My answer is, as it was in the sketch, "F___ your sales, we've got to protect the public."

Keith

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

You're still making things up.

We're looking into what you're reporting - but we haven't reproduced it at all.
That doesn't mean we think there's a problem, it just means that we're looking into all the credible reports we get.

And you need to read the response to your HT "problem" rather than reposting it.

And you still haven't got a clue about beta testing.....

[povimage@adobeforums.com]

Which quote am I "making up?"

If you're going to libel me by calling me a liar outright, you better have damn hard evidence buddy boy!

Do it again without proof and Karen Cottle at Adobe legal will get a call from my attorney faster than you can say "upgrade." Go ahead, make my day.

Keith

[Chris_Cox@adobeforums.com]

The quotes seem to be accurate - but then you go off into left field and draw conclusions that have nothing to do with the quotes.

(why does this smell more and more like a troll?)

[povimage@adobeforums.com]

Chris,

If you disagree with the conclusions I draw, that's one thing. Saying I'm "making up things" implies I'm making up facts.

The same facts can lead differing parties to differing conclusions, and that I'm willing to accept. The fact remains that users are reporting similar problems with increasing memory that is grabbed by PS CS and is not returned until the application is closed - as opposed to when the open files are closed, etc..

BTW: yeah, that's it. marginalize me as a "troll" and shift the focus from the apparent BUG in PS CS..

Typical.

Keith