Questions about Illustrator and how it's used.

[John_Holtgrew@adobeforums.com]

Not having any major problems with Illustrator CS but I've got some questions about how the program works and how people use it and this seemed like a great place to ask. I've been working with Illustrator for about four years now and consider myself to know the program fairly well but there's some things I've noticed and have never been able to figure out. For instance why has Illustrator 8.0 become the standard for preferred file format when sending to a printer? I know that Illustrator 8 doesn't support transparency, is it tied to that? Because that causes problems say if a drop shadow(or other effect involving transparency) effect wants to be used, the file gets flattened and rasterized in certain areas. Wouldn't it be better for the more common format be one that supports transparencies? What is the difference between transparency and clipping masks? I know what both are and what they do but why does Illustrator treat them so differently? These are not new issues I know but I would like to hear explanations from people who actually deal with Illustrator, be it pre-press or design. Any help would be great. Or if you could point me in the direction of some resources that address this, that would be good too. Thanks all.

[Scott_Falkner@adobeforums.com]

Wouldn't it be better for the more common format be one that supports
transparencies?




Remember that Illustrator is a tool to create an end product -- a printed page. That is what will define the standard. For that reason, you need to provide files that will comply with an industry-wide standard in order to safely predict the printed result. That industry-wide standard is Illustrator 8 EPS.

Most RIPs will have no trouble rasterizing that file, because these RIPS, which speak only PostScript, might not be able to support transparency. Some can. And most print shops and prepress outut bureaus can open your Illustrator 10 files and flatten them for you. But not for free.

Most experienced, professional production artists will provide an entire job in the industry standard formats, either as collected QuarkXPress/InDesign files and TIFF and EPS (AI8 or Photoshop) files or a PDF, or both. They will also provide the working files for any changes or adjustments, just in case. This measn the original Illustrator 10/CS .ai files, the original layered PSDs, and any images linked in those files.

And fonts.

[Gary_Newman@adobeforums.com]

Illustrator 8 has been the most hassle-free format for along time - print shops are accustomed to it, and it gives them few problems. But it doesn't support transparency, so printers would rather not deal with transparency. If the shop uses Quark for output to separations, that's another strike against any format higher than AI8, since QX also doesn't handle transparency.

Transparency does inject a large element of complexity, but it's not impossible. I don't think there's any excuse for a a print shop to categorically refuse to advace beyond the software of several years ago, when the design community is moving on. There are plenty of printers that can and do accept Illustrator 10 and CS files, including those with transparency.

[Scott_Falkner@adobeforums.com]

Oh yes, I would not recommend dealing with a printer that won't accommodate all workflows. Any decent print shop will gladly work with unflattened Illustrator CS files. They will also work with unmodified JPEGs from Photodisc that haven't been resampled to the proper size or converted to CMYK. They will also happily accept a five colour job with CMYK and RGB images, as well as twelve spot colours, some of which need to be merked into one plate, and some of which need to be process. They also won't balk at getting elaborate images with clipping paths make from selections, rather than hand drawn with the pen.

They will also gladly accept an arm and a leg in payment.

Just as you want to deal with a supplier that will need your needs, you should work with your suppliers to meet theirs. Anything they don't have to worry about puts you one step closer to the press, and leaves more money in your, or your client's, pocket.

[Gary_Newman@adobeforums.com]

Printers don't have to charge an arm and a leg for well-constructed files, regardless of what version of software was used in its creation. So they get poorly constructed files from some designers, and it causes a lot of gnashing of teeth and rending of hair. Is that a good reason to require all work to be submitted in the old, safe, easy-to-fix format from everyone? I won't accept that. I refuse to downgrade my work to fit the lowest common denominator. If I can put together artwork in Illustrator CS (or 10) that is as easy to output as any AI8 file, I'll seek out the printers who will at least try to accommodate my workflow.

[JERYL_MARCUS@adobeforums.com]

I just submitted a file to the printer and they told me I would have to convert from AI 10 to AI 9. Maybe I should have said forget it and gone somewhere that has 10.
J. Marcus

[Gary_Newman@adobeforums.com]

I would quiz them a little further. Do they even have a copy of Illustrator 10? If so, do they have some one who's learning it? Do they have any plans to upgrade? If the answer to any of these is No, I'd shop around.

[Just_A_Mac_Guy@adobeforums.com]

Software evolves much faster than industry standards and practices. Refusing to deal with new formats signals unprofessionalism and a stagnation in quality.

That being said, Illy 8 eps files are the short answer to get a better chance at problem free files. You can still make a mess in 8 but most recent problems with Illustrator stem from improper use of Gradient Mesh, Transparancies, and other new features introduced in Illy 9 & 10. Mostly user error or lack or knowledge, but some were based in Adobe's arrogant insistance that these were problems born in poor Postscript implementation in 3rd party RIPs. The assumption that the entire industry would quickly replace millions of $$ worth of otherwise working equipment becase Adobe "improved" their core apps was presumptuous. <opinion>.

Regardless, these things happen, on occaion. Software gets updated beyond the current state of the art equipment. Intially, early adoptors have problems getting new files accepted. Workarounds are devised and stragglers eventually come onboard. and a new standard is created. Ily 3.32, Illy5.5, and illy 8 were plateaus of relative stability. Other versions came and went.

an 18 month upgrade cycle does not give hardware manufacturers that much time to catch up. But that is the way of things.

[John_Holtgrew@adobeforums.com]

Wow, this is all great information everyone. I have another question along these same lines then. I've made an ad with transparencies before and then saved it down to Illustrator 8 and of course the file was flattened and rasterized in areas. I had accidentally sent it off before realizing my error and the printer told me they were unable to work with the file. So I had to change the art to removed all the transparencies so it would export correctly. Is a file that has been saved out in such a way worthless then and incapable of being worked with? I send art to NUMEROUS printers and Illustrator 8.0 EPS the only file format they ask for. There are exceptions but it's rare. I mean, I don't work in pre-press and I'll be the first to admit that I know less about the process than anyone but if I can understand it more then I can try and create artwork that is less problematic for them. And in return less problematic for me. But it does seem like I'm being limited sometime with all these cool tools offered in Illustrator but not being able to use them... Thanks again.

[Scott_Falkner@adobeforums.com]

Flattening your AI 9, 10, or CS files to AI 8 will not -- or at least should not -- change the apperance of te artwork. The transparencies and effects will be flattened into hundreds of tiny shapes and dozens of rasterized areas, but the file should look and print identically. Test this by opening the AI8 EPS files and printing them.

You get nothing but good things being educated about standards and potential pitfalls. Be flexible and develop a workflow that accommodates both you and your printer. As I said before: Give the printer both the standardized file and the full-featured AI 10 file. Do this, and you will make friends with your printer. Your printer will look forward to working with you because they know you understand, or at least appreciate, the potential difficulties they face with every job. You will get fast, reliable quotes. You will get fewer added costs and delays. You will be more confident that your files will print accurately and predictably. You will make more money and have happier clients.

Or don't, as some designers prefer. And see how that helps you.

[Gary_Newman@adobeforums.com]

You should always try to keep an open and flexible relationship with your printer/supplier. If you help educate one another, everyone wins. But if a printer does not work with AI 10 files, does not accept them, and in fact doesn't even have AI 10, providing them with one along with your flattened version is obviously going to be a waste of bandwidth.

Printers who tell you they will ONLY accept Illustrator 8 files drag us all down. It is not that difficult to to save back to an old format - I'll do it at the drop of a hat for a client. And I'll bend over backwards to help and problem-solve for a supplier who's interested. But I have no more tolerance for a printer who tells me their limit is software that's five years old, than I would if they told me they need the artwork to be a single, hi-res raster image (which some have been known to do) or a paper mechanical.

It's admittedly more difficult for a printer to keep up with software advances than for designers. But at some point, you have to bite the bullet and learn the new technology - just as printers did when they realized they could mke money going direct to plate, rather than let the service bureau around the corner make the film. Now that service bureaus are more of a thing of the past, some printers want to put on the brakes.