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RAC, CFS and online backups - Oracle Server

PdV wrote: > > Group, > > Running a RAC database (9.2) on an OCFS clustered system. > Works surprisingly well. > Having a real file-system is very comfortable. > > Question: > Can we revert to using "conventional" online backup > instead of using RMAN to take care of backup ? > > e.g. would this still allow me to take backups: > SQL> alter tablespace data_m begin backup ; > > nb: we do realize we need archive-logs from ALL instances to > perform recovery! > > Thanks for any feedback, > > Regards, > > [email]Piet.de.vissercmg.com[/email] Yes, ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    PdV wrote:
    >
    > Group,
    >
    > Running a RAC database (9.2) on an OCFS clustered system.
    > Works surprisingly well.
    > Having a real file-system is very comfortable.
    >
    > Question:
    > Can we revert to using "conventional" online backup
    > instead of using RMAN to take care of backup ?
    >
    > e.g. would this still allow me to take backups:
    > SQL> alter tablespace data_m begin backup ;
    >
    > nb: we do realize we need archive-logs from ALL instances to
    > perform recovery!
    >
    > Thanks for any feedback,
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > [email]Piet.de.vissercmg.com[/email]
    Yes, and its probably a good idea to do so. My understanding is that
    rman still has a few problems with RAC. Depending on the failure, it
    could be possible that an instance needs the archive from another

    hth
    connor
    --
    ==============================
    Connor McDonald

    [url]http://www.oracledba.co.uk[/url]

    "Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue..."
    Connor McDonald Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    "PdV" <piet.de.vissercmg.com> wrote in message
    news:6de2ae57.0212051050.3c52e0d3posting.google.c om...
    > Group,
    >
    > Running a RAC database (9.2) on an OCFS clustered system.
    > Works surprisingly well.
    > Having a real file-system is very comfortable.
    >
    > Question:
    > Can we revert to using "conventional" online backup
    > instead of using RMAN to take care of backup ?
    >
    > e.g. would this still allow me to take backups:
    > SQL> alter tablespace data_m begin backup ;
    >
    > nb: we do realize we need archive-logs from ALL instances to
    > perform recovery!
    >
    > Thanks for any feedback,
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > [email]Piet.de.vissercmg.com[/email]
    Hot backup? Alter tablespace dah dah dah one at a time and do the business?
    Yes, of course you can. And in your position, I'd feel reasonably
    comfortable, provided I had all the logs.

    Personally, I'd shut the whole thing down now, and take a cold backup. But
    then, I'm a conservative old b*****. And I have **absolutely no evidence**
    to support this view, but I'd be nervous about combining RAC and RMAN. One
    or the other, yes, but these new features always seem to have issues once
    one tries to combine them.

    But then again, as I implied, I'm a cynic (and as such I doubt that Mr.
    Ellison would hold me in much regard). You might be better off canvassing
    the views of others before heeding my advice.

    Regards,
    Paul



    Paul Brewer Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    Just wanted to say that in 9i Release 2, RAC and RMAN work very nicely
    together. I've yet to encounter any problems at all (not to say that there
    aren't any lurking... just that in quite extensive testing, I've yet to find
    them).

    RMAN was a dog's breakfast with 8i's Parallel Server, largely because it was
    oblivious to the existence of multiple instances unless you explicitly told
    it, and manually took over the responsibility for backing up all constituent
    parts yourself.

    With RAC, RMAN understands the concept of a cluster perfectly well.

    Regards
    HJR




    "Paul Brewer" <paulpaul.brewers.org.uk> wrote in message
    news:3df005cb_3mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
    > "PdV" <piet.de.vissercmg.com> wrote in message
    > news:6de2ae57.0212051050.3c52e0d3posting.google.c om...
    > > Group,
    > >
    > > Running a RAC database (9.2) on an OCFS clustered system.
    > > Works surprisingly well.
    > > Having a real file-system is very comfortable.
    > >
    > > Question:
    > > Can we revert to using "conventional" online backup
    > > instead of using RMAN to take care of backup ?
    > >
    > > e.g. would this still allow me to take backups:
    > > SQL> alter tablespace data_m begin backup ;
    > >
    > > nb: we do realize we need archive-logs from ALL instances to
    > > perform recovery!
    > >
    > > Thanks for any feedback,
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > [email]Piet.de.vissercmg.com[/email]
    >
    > Hot backup? Alter tablespace dah dah dah one at a time and do the
    business?
    > Yes, of course you can. And in your position, I'd feel reasonably
    > comfortable, provided I had all the logs.
    >
    > Personally, I'd shut the whole thing down now, and take a cold backup. But
    > then, I'm a conservative old b*****. And I have **absolutely no evidence**
    > to support this view, but I'd be nervous about combining RAC and RMAN. One
    > or the other, yes, but these new features always seem to have issues once
    > one tries to combine them.
    >
    > But then again, as I implied, I'm a cynic (and as such I doubt that Mr.
    > Ellison would hold me in much regard). You might be better off canvassing
    > the views of others before heeding my advice.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >

    Howard J. Rogers Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    In article <3df11fea$1_2mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>, "Paul says...
    >
    snip>>
    >Howard (and Pete, if you're there), I accept what you say, and I don't
    >dispute it for a moment.
    >
    >As I said, I have **no evidence**. I'm just cautious about combining new
    >features. Surely you will accept that in the past we have, on occasion, been
    >bitten.
    >
    >I'm an avid Oracle supporter, and (I like to think, anyway) a reasonably
    >competent DBA. But I have a preference for introducing changes one at a
    >time.
    >
    >And none of this is intended to sound in any way negative about Oracle
    >Corporation's offerings.
    >
    >Regards,
    >Paul
    >
    Exactly why I had two perspectives in my posting, one of which was you have to
    be cautious about doing anything in an HA environment. I totally agree that
    people have been bitten in the past (heck, I can remember being bittne myself
    with the 6.0.34 to 6.0.36 patch!)

    HTH. Additions and corrections welcome.

    Pete

    SELECT standard_disclaimer, witty_remark FROM company_requirements;

    Pete Sharman Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    Pete, Howard, Connor, Paul, Group,

    Thanks for some Good Information.

    My current recommendation for backup RAC would be:
    - cold backup if you can.
    - hot backup by a ksh script, that should generate its own commands,
    and execute them at the same time (e.g. generate just before execution,
    to make sure it is up-2-date).

    All this under assumptions:
    - a clusterded file system (do not want to run RAC without it).
    - an indetermined nr of nodes (e.g. expandable).
    - you already have a hot-backup ksh, that generates single-node
    commands (like alter tablespace, cp files, and re-cp files to help during
    restore).
    - as a conservative Dino, I do not want additional overhead of RMAN.

    nb: Looking fw to a thread to discuss RAC in general:
    IMHO the SCALABILITY is its STRONGEST point,
    with failover and HA as a good, but far, second argument.
    HA is best assured by Good, Redundant, hardware.
    Whereas scalability can be done more effectively by adding nodes
    as-needed under a running database.
    Think of a news-site reacting to increased hits by _quickly_ adding the
    development- test- and acceptance nodes to support production load!

    Ideas anyone ?

    Regards,

    PdV
    PdV Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: RAC, CFS and online backups

    I've no doubt at all that RAC is very much more scalable than poor old OPS.
    But it certainly isn't linear as certain marketing material (mentioning no
    names) might suggest.

    For an excellent discussion on this very issue, have a read of James Morle's
    paper on [url]www.oaktable.net[/url]. I think it's called 'Unbreakable' (if I weren't
    so lazy, I'd go and check!).

    Regards
    HJR


    "PdV" <piet.de.vissercmg.com> wrote in message
    news:6de2ae57.0212080907.6c64633eposting.google.c om...
    > Pete, Howard, Connor, Paul, Group,
    >
    > Thanks for some Good Information.
    >
    > My current recommendation for backup RAC would be:
    > - cold backup if you can.
    > - hot backup by a ksh script, that should generate its own commands,
    > and execute them at the same time (e.g. generate just before execution,
    > to make sure it is up-2-date).
    >
    > All this under assumptions:
    > - a clusterded file system (do not want to run RAC without it).
    > - an indetermined nr of nodes (e.g. expandable).
    > - you already have a hot-backup ksh, that generates single-node
    > commands (like alter tablespace, cp files, and re-cp files to help
    during
    > restore).
    > - as a conservative Dino, I do not want additional overhead of RMAN.
    >
    > nb: Looking fw to a thread to discuss RAC in general:
    > IMHO the SCALABILITY is its STRONGEST point,
    > with failover and HA as a good, but far, second argument.
    > HA is best assured by Good, Redundant, hardware.
    > Whereas scalability can be done more effectively by adding nodes
    > as-needed under a running database.
    > Think of a news-site reacting to increased hits by _quickly_ adding the
    > development- test- and acceptance nodes to support production load!
    >
    > Ideas anyone ?
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > PdV

    Howard J. Rogers Guest

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