Request/suggestion

[Pierre Szwarc]

I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with a
slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we have
this back, please?
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

[Tekguru (Daron Brewood)]

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:

> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with a
> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we have
> this back, please?

Seconded, I miss that one too!
--
Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
MS-MVP/Mobile Devices

Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
[url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]

[Zack Whittaker \(R2 Mentor\)]

Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...

Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature
complete" now...

--
Zack Whittaker
Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
» ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
» MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
» ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
» VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!


--- Original message follows ---
"Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...

> On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
>

>> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
>> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with a
>> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we
>> have
>> this back, please?

>
> Seconded, I miss that one too!
> --
> Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
> MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
>
> Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
> [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]

[Eric]

lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are not
thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make
suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE GONNA
MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY?

geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from Microsoft
Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER feedback
and FEATURE COMPLETE.

The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can be
made...

This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion"

"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:

> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...
>
> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature
> complete" now...
>
> --
> Zack Whittaker
> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> » VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
>
>
> --- Original message follows ---
> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...

> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
> >

> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with a
> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we
> >> have
> >> this back, please?

> >
> > Seconded, I miss that one too!
> > --
> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
> >
> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
> > [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]

>
>
>

[Zack Whittaker \(R2 Mentor\)]

OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this :o)

1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts of
information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but
they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can improve
it in the next developmental cycle of Windows.
2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't picked
randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who have
experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what
people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so
they'll know!
3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers and
employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for long
enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking :o)
4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen,
what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application that
crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version.

It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't need
any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have taken 5
years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong to
be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had the
Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing
worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows
Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as well.
Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame
it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version of
Windows in the meantime.

--
Zack Whittaker
Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
» ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
» MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
» ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
» VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!


--- Original message follows ---
"Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-F2C5DC5A3A97@microsoft.com...

> lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are not
> thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make
> suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE
> GONNA
> MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY?
>
> geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from Microsoft
> Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER feedback
> and FEATURE COMPLETE.
>
> The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can be
> made...
>
> This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion"
>
> "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
>

>> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...
>>
>> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature
>> complete" now...
>>
>> --
>> Zack Whittaker
>> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
>> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
>> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
>> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
>> » VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
>> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
>> not
>> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
>>
>>
>> --- Original message follows ---
>> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...

>> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
>> >
>> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
>> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with
>> >> a
>> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we
>> >> have
>> >> this back, please?
>> >
>> > Seconded, I miss that one too!
>> > --
>> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
>> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
>> >
>> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
>> > [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]

>>
>>
>>

[Eric]

First, thanks for your reply.

however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms...

The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new features
or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.

I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do get
MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
every year...


and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a decade...
and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
extraordinary length of dev time


"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:

> OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this :o)
>
> 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts of
> information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but
> they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can improve
> it in the next developmental cycle of Windows.
> 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't picked
> randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who have
> experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what
> people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so
> they'll know!
> 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers and
> employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for long
> enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking :o)
> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen,
> what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application that
> crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version.
>
> It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't need
> any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have taken 5
> years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong to
> be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had the
> Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing
> worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows
> Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as well.
> Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame
> it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version of
> Windows in the meantime.
>
> --
> Zack Whittaker
> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> » VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
>
>
> --- Original message follows ---
> "Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-F2C5DC5A3A97@microsoft.com...

> > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are not
> > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make
> > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE
> > GONNA
> > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY?
> >
> > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from Microsoft
> > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER feedback
> > and FEATURE COMPLETE.
> >
> > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can be
> > made...
> >
> > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion"
> >
> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
> >

> >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...
> >>
> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature
> >> complete" now...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zack Whittaker
> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> >> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> >> » VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
> >> not
> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Original message follows ---
> >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...
> >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows
> >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with
> >> >> a
> >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we
> >> >> have
> >> >> this back, please?
> >> >
> >> > Seconded, I miss that one too!
> >> > --
> >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
> >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
> >> >
> >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
> >> > [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]
> >>
> >>
> >>

>
>
>

[Zack Whittaker \(R2 Mentor\)]

> The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new

> features
> or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.

I know - it just helps improve what is there and how people use it - they
know how people use software from the CEIP reports, so they know how to make
things easier to access and use.

> I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do
> get
> MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
> every year...

Sometimes random, but it really helps if you have a lot of experience behind
you. If you know a product, they'll usually ask you to participate in
further ones of that product. For example, I was on Messenger 7.0, then 7.5
and now WLM 8.0. They are carefully selected most of the time, with bug
reports feedback and all that.

> and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a
> decade...
> and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
> seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
> extraordinary length of dev time

And they are! You must remember there are many different perceptions - from
novice users, experts, developers, web developers, security analysts,
technology evangalists - so overall it's much better for everyone. They've
had a lot of work to do in Vista and it's not as if they've been slacking
you know, there was a point where they nearly re-wrote the entire codebase
from scratch - it's not easy building something that advanced!

--
Zack Whittaker
Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
» ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
» MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
» ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
» VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!


--- Original message follows ---
"Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:527A4869-9A73-497B-A133-F2E95D7B735C@microsoft.com...

> First, thanks for your reply.
>
> however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms...
>
> The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new
> features
> or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.
>
> I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do
> get
> MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
> every year...
>
>
> and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a
> decade...
> and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
> seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
> extraordinary length of dev time
>
>
> "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
>

>> OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this :o)
>>
>> 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts
>> of
>> information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but
>> they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can
>> improve
>> it in the next developmental cycle of Windows.
>> 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't
>> picked
>> randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who
>> have
>> experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what
>> people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so
>> they'll know!
>> 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers
>> and
>> employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for
>> long
>> enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking :o)
>> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen,
>> what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application
>> that
>> crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version.
>>
>> It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't
>> need
>> any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have
>> taken 5
>> years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong
>> to
>> be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had
>> the
>> Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing
>> worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows
>> Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as
>> well.
>> Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame
>> it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version
>> of
>> Windows in the meantime.
>>
>> --
>> Zack Whittaker
>> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
>> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
>> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
>> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
>> » VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
>> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
>> not
>> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
>>
>>
>> --- Original message follows ---
>> "Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-F2C5DC5A3A97@microsoft.com...

>> > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are
>> > not
>> > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make
>> > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE
>> > GONNA
>> > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY?
>> >
>> > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from
>> > Microsoft
>> > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER
>> > feedback
>> > and FEATURE COMPLETE.
>> >
>> > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can
>> > be
>> > made...
>> >
>> > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion"
>> >
>> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...
>> >>
>> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are
>> >> "feature
>> >> complete" now...
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Zack Whittaker
>> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
>> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
>> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
>> >> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
>> >> » VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
>> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so,
>> >> and
>> >> not
>> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that
>> >> one!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- Original message follows ---
>> >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >> news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...
>> >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous
>> >> >> Windows
>> >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> this back, please?
>> >> >
>> >> > Seconded, I miss that one too!
>> >> > --
>> >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
>> >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
>> >> >
>> >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
>> >> > [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>

>>
>>
>>

[Eric]

Thanks.

Although I'd like to ask how do they determine the seniority of a user, like
yourself?

"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:

> > The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new
> > features
> > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.

>
> I know - it just helps improve what is there and how people use it - they
> know how people use software from the CEIP reports, so they know how to make
> things easier to access and use.
>

> > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do
> > get
> > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
> > every year...

>
> Sometimes random, but it really helps if you have a lot of experience behind
> you. If you know a product, they'll usually ask you to participate in
> further ones of that product. For example, I was on Messenger 7.0, then 7.5
> and now WLM 8.0. They are carefully selected most of the time, with bug
> reports feedback and all that.
>

> > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a
> > decade...
> > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
> > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
> > extraordinary length of dev time

>
> And they are! You must remember there are many different perceptions - from
> novice users, experts, developers, web developers, security analysts,
> technology evangalists - so overall it's much better for everyone. They've
> had a lot of work to do in Vista and it's not as if they've been slacking
> you know, there was a point where they nearly re-wrote the entire codebase
> from scratch - it's not easy building something that advanced!
>
> --
> Zack Whittaker
> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> » VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
>
>
> --- Original message follows ---
> "Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:527A4869-9A73-497B-A133-F2E95D7B735C@microsoft.com...

> > First, thanks for your reply.
> >
> > however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms...
> >
> > The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new
> > features
> > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.
> >
> > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do
> > get
> > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
> > every year...
> >
> >
> > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a
> > decade...
> > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
> > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
> > extraordinary length of dev time
> >
> >
> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
> >

> >> OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this :o)
> >>
> >> 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts
> >> of
> >> information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but
> >> they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can
> >> improve
> >> it in the next developmental cycle of Windows.
> >> 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't
> >> picked
> >> randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who
> >> have
> >> experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what
> >> people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so
> >> they'll know!
> >> 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers
> >> and
> >> employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for
> >> long
> >> enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking :o)
> >> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen,
> >> what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application
> >> that
> >> crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version.
> >>
> >> It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't
> >> need
> >> any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have
> >> taken 5
> >> years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong
> >> to
> >> be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had
> >> the
> >> Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing
> >> worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows
> >> Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as
> >> well.
> >> Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame
> >> it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version
> >> of
> >> Windows in the meantime.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zack Whittaker
> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> >> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> >> » VistaBase: [url]www.vistabase.co.uk[/url]
> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and
> >> not
> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one!
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Original message follows ---
> >> "Eric" <Eric@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-F2C5DC5A3A97@microsoft.com...
> >> > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are
> >> > not
> >> > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make
> >> > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE
> >> > GONNA
> >> > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY?
> >> >
> >> > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from
> >> > Microsoft
> >> > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER
> >> > feedback
> >> > and FEATURE COMPLETE.
> >> >
> >> > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can
> >> > be
> >> > made...
> >> >
> >> > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion"
> >> >
> >> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be...
> >> >>
> >> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are
> >> >> "feature
> >> >> complete" now...
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Zack Whittaker
> >> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor)
> >> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk[/url]
> >> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: [url]http://msblog.resdev.net[/url]
> >> >> » ZackNET Forum: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/forum[/url]
> >> >> » VistaBase: [url]www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase[/url]
> >> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so,
> >> >> and
> >> >> not
> >> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that
> >> >> one!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --- Original message follows ---
> >> >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <tekguru@tekguru.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> >> news:dqfycymykhgm.dlg@tekguru.co.uk...
> >> >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous
> >> >> >> Windows
> >> >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >> have
> >> >> >> this back, please?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Seconded, I miss that one too!
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood)
> >> >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site
> >> >> > [url]http://www.4WinMobile.com[/url]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>

>
>
>

[Pierre Szwarc]

From my POV, the whole process is lopsided: taking my own case as an
example, I have about 40 years experience in using computers, including 20
years in development and the rest in client education, assistance and
support. I've used personal computers professionally since 1984 (that was
MS-DOS 2.0). I'm acutely aware of the users' needs, in part because I have
the ability to put myself in their shoes, and in part because I work with
them on a daily basis. Yet MS doesn't know about me or others like me, and I
(and many others with equivalent experiences) have never been approached for
our opinions. The only ones who participate in the process, and whose
suggestions are (sometimes) taken in consideration, are the ones who *pay*
Microsoft for the "privilege" to access and play with unfinished software.
Most of those people are young and technically oriented, and have little or
no experience of what the average Joe out there needs or wants. Being the
more numerous, their suggestions and advice drown out those of the few
people like me, who *do* know users.
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

"Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" <admin@zacknet.co.uk> a écrit dans le message
de news: %23I1ZDXjRGHA.5908@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
|> The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new
| > features
| > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them.
|
| I know - it just helps improve what is there and how people use it - they
| know how people use software from the CEIP reports, so they know how to
make
| things easier to access and use.
|
| > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do
| > get
| > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend
| > every year...
|
| Sometimes random, but it really helps if you have a lot of experience
behind
| you. If you know a product, they'll usually ask you to participate in
| further ones of that product. For example, I was on Messenger 7.0, then
7.5
| and now WLM 8.0. They are carefully selected most of the time, with bug
| reports feedback and all that.
|
| > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a
| > decade...
| > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've
| > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its
| > extraordinary length of dev time
|
| And they are! You must remember there are many different perceptions -
from
| novice users, experts, developers, web developers, security analysts,
| technology evangalists - so overall it's much better for everyone. They've
| had a lot of work to do in Vista and it's not as if they've been slacking
| you know, there was a point where they nearly re-wrote the entire codebase
| from scratch - it's not easy building something that advanced!

[Mike Williams]

Pierre Szwarc wrote:

> From my POV, the whole process is lopsided: taking my own case as an
> example, I have about 40 years experience in using computers, including 20
> years in development and the rest in client education, assistance and
> support. I've used personal computers professionally since 1984 (that was
> MS-DOS 2.0). I'm acutely aware of the users' needs, in part because I have
> the ability to put myself in their shoes, and in part because I work with
> them on a daily basis. Yet MS doesn't know about me or others like me, and I
> (and many others with equivalent experiences) have never been approached for
> our opinions. The only ones who participate in the process, and whose
> suggestions are (sometimes) taken in consideration, are the ones who *pay*
> Microsoft for the "privilege" to access and play with unfinished software.
> Most of those people are young and technically oriented, and have little or
> no experience of what the average Joe out there needs or wants. Being the
> more numerous, their suggestions and advice drown out those of the few
> people like me, who *do* know users.

Actually Microsoft interviews people all over the world, and I've been
on both sides of the interview table/screen. Beta testers are customers,
newsgroup participants and other invitees. Feedback is sent to Microsoft
all the time through published mechanisms, and that feeds into the
product design cycle.

Given the hundreds of millions of customers, the chances of any one
person being a participant is rather small...no?

[Pierre Szwarc]

Yes <g> Still, from the results I think the people interviewed do not
represent a fair cross-section of the end-user base, it apparently leans
heavily to the techie/geek side. Or if it *is* a faire cross-section, then
the people at MS aren't paying enough attention. This, of course is *my*
opinion and not necessarily a fair cross-section ;))
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

"Mike Williams" <mikew@m-v-p-s.org.null> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email]44156E9E.1040502@m-v-p-s.org.null[/email]...
| Actually Microsoft interviews people all over the world, and I've been
| on both sides of the interview table/screen. Beta testers are customers,
| newsgroup participants and other invitees. Feedback is sent to Microsoft
| all the time through published mechanisms, and that feeds into the
| product design cycle.
|
| Given the hundreds of millions of customers, the chances of any one
| person being a participant is rather small...no?

[Eric]

Thank you Pierre for sharing this.

Yes, the current BETA group does not represent the fair share of the
market's opinion and views on Vista. There's also a major group of *paid,
MSDNed* people who have the financial capability to join in, and what has
happened is the public has no say on Vista.

To be truthful, if you went out the streets and ask someone "What do you
think Vista can be improved on?", they don't even know what Vista is, and
even if they do, it's already FEATURE COMPLETE. So April's CTP is only for
bug fixes, not feature suggestions that make the impact like MSDN people do.

"Pierre Szwarc" wrote:

> Yes <g> Still, from the results I think the people interviewed do not
> represent a fair cross-section of the end-user base, it apparently leans
> heavily to the techie/geek side. Or if it *is* a faire cross-section, then
> the people at MS aren't paying enough attention. This, of course is *my*
> opinion and not necessarily a fair cross-section ;))
> --
> Pierre Szwarc
> Paris, France
> PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
> ------------------------------------------------
> Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mike Williams" <mikew@m-v-p-s.org.null> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email]44156E9E.1040502@m-v-p-s.org.null[/email]...
> | Actually Microsoft interviews people all over the world, and I've been
> | on both sides of the interview table/screen. Beta testers are customers,
> | newsgroup participants and other invitees. Feedback is sent to Microsoft
> | all the time through published mechanisms, and that feeds into the
> | product design cycle.
> |
> | Given the hundreds of millions of customers, the chances of any one
> | person being a participant is rather small...no?
>
>
>