RGB colors print for "in-RIP" separation

[Caciotti webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Hi all,

I'm trying to print some RGB colors defined in Freehand to a composite printer.
The printer is an Heidelberg RIP that is set up with an ICC color engine to produce separations.

I've done a lot of tests with Freehand 9, 10 and MX, changing every options I see, but I've never managed to let Freehand send RGB color to the RIP without converting them in CMYK.

This is not true for imported images. If I import an RGB image, I can send it "as is" to the RIP.

This is a very big limitation for us, it invalidates our ICC based workflow.

Does anybody know how to solve this problem ?

Thanks a lot,

M.C.

************************************************** ******
Ing. Marco Caciotti
mailto: [email]caciotti@cromografica.biz[/email]

La Cromografica snc ([url]www.cromografica.biz[/url])
via A.Allori 92/94, 50127 Firenze, ITALY
************************************************** ******

[Judy Arndt]

Please clarify whether you're printing a full-color composite (like a photo)
or separations (black plates for each ink color used on a press).

Have you tried setting FH color management to 'None' during printing?

Judy Arndt

Caciotti wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to print some RGB colors defined in Freehand to a composite
> printer. The printer is an Heidelberg RIP that is set up with an ICC color
> engine to produce separations.
>
> I've done a lot of tests with Freehand 9, 10 and MX, changing every options I
> see, but I've never managed to let Freehand send RGB color to the RIP without
> converting them in CMYK.
>
> This is not true for imported images. If I import an RGB image, I can send it
> "as is" to the RIP.
>
> This is a very big limitation for us, it invalidates our ICC based workflow.
>
>

[Caciotti webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

My work is composed by imported RGB bitmap images and Freehand graphical elements. The imported RGB bitmap images print correctly.

The problem arises with colors defined in Freehand as RGB (and applied to boxes, strokes end so on).
I'm printing from a Macintosh, with Adobe PS driver to an Heidelberg DeltaRip, in composite mode. I've used different PPD, even none, but Freehsnd RGB colors are always converted to CMYK.
In the print dialog, I've unchecked in the image panel the voice "Convert RGB to process", but it works only on imported bitmap images.

I've already set color management to "None", but Freehand RGB colors are always separated (in this case in CMY, with no black generation).

Thanks for your help,

M.C.

************************************************** ******
Ing. Marco Caciotti
mailto: [email]caciotti@cromografica.biz[/email]

La Cromografica snc ([url]www.cromografica.biz[/url])
via A.Allori 92/94, 50127 Firenze, ITALY
************************************************** ******

[Danny Whitehead]

Unfortunately, in FH 9.0.1, which is what I use, there is no way to get
the RGB colour vectors to a Postscript device. As you know, you can get
RGB raster data over by unchecking 'Convert RGB to process'. I don't
think this has changed with later versions. I would be interested to
know whether it's possible to get Freehand MX's RGB-only Raster Effects
over to the RIP unconverted by unchecking 'Convert RGB to process'.

Assuming it hasn't been added to later versions, I suggest you add the
abilty to send RGB vectors to a Postscript device to the wishlist:
[url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/?6213=10[/url]

It would come in very handy in a colour-managed composite workflow.

--


Danny

[Judy Arndt]

In the advanced Print Setup dialog, FHMX's checkbox says 'Print spot colors
as process'. I think the only intention of this setting is to allow you to
print spot colors as process separations. It doesn't seem to do anything to
preserve RGB values, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

Here's a workaround that someone might test. It's a long shot and I can't
test as I don't have a Postscript color printer.

1. Name all colors and make sure they are all RGB spot colors. Do not use
Pantone Solid colors from FHMX libraries because they contain CMYK
equivalents.

2. Build your vector objects from named RGB spot colors with the limitations
that go along with spot colors -- no raster effects, no transparency lenses,
etc. This would be useful for colored text and simple vector art.

3. If raster effects or transparency lenses have been used, save as a new
document and Modify > Convert to Image at the appropriate ppi before
printing. Try to avoid rasterizing fine detail and small text.

A combination of both of these treatments would probably be necessary. Both
are full of potential problems.

4. Before printing, set FHMX color management to 'None'. In FHMX Print
Setup, uncheck 'Print spot colors as process'.

I'd be very curious to know if this actually works in an RGB to Postscript
color printer workflow. As far as I've been able to determine, it does _not_
preserve RGB values when printing to PS file and Distilling with Press
Quality settings (Acrobat 6 Pro).

Judy Arndt
FHMXa
Mac G4, OS 10.3.2 (Panther)
Acrobat 6 Pro / Distiller 6



Danny Whitehead wrote:

> Unfortunately, in FH 9.0.1, which is what I use, there is no way to get
> the RGB colour vectors to a Postscript device. As you know, you can get
> RGB raster data over by unchecking 'Convert RGB to process'. I don't
> think this has changed with later versions. I would be interested to
> know whether it's possible to get Freehand MX's RGB-only Raster Effects
> over to the RIP unconverted by unchecking 'Convert RGB to process'.
>
> Assuming it hasn't been added to later versions, I suggest you add the
> abilty to send RGB vectors to a Postscript device to the wishlist:
> [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/?6213=10[/url]
>
> It would come in very handy in a colour-managed composite workflow.

[ScottShore webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

I had the same problem with our ICC workflow. I was saving files to generic eps and then processing them in our RIP to find RGB had been converted to CMYK, more specifically my images. I have now found a workaround which preserves rgb images and vector as well. I am not sure what the exact change which is working but I'm now printing directly to our RIP Queue using it's virtual printer driver. The other change I have made recently is upgrading to Panther, but I'm not sure if it would have anything to do with it. I have tried colouring vector art from the mixer and from the swatch list. In the RIP the colour is being preserved as RGB exactly matching the values in the file.

I dont know if this will help or not, but there is definitely something odd with rgb content handling.

Scott

[Danny Whitehead]

Judy Arndt wrote:

> In the advanced Print Setup dialog, FHMX's checkbox says 'Print spot

colors

> as process'. I think the only intention of this setting is to allow
> you to print spot colors as process separations. It doesn't seem to
> do

anything to

> preserve RGB values, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

It's the 'Convert RGB to process' checkbox in the the Imaging tab of
FH's Print Setup I'm refering to, not 'Print spot colors as process' in
the Separations tab. It controls whether or not FH converts RGB colours
in raster images to CMYK at print time, but you have no option to send
RGB vectors, be they spot or 'process' (italic name in the list).

As with all 'none' or 'off' colour management settings, switching FH's
CM to 'none' only switches off user control over the way colours are
managed. They are still managed at some point.

Using RGB-defined spot colours just results in FH doing a very poor
conversion to CMYK at print time (basically, 255R = 100M 100Y, 255G =
100C 100Y, 255B = 100C 100M - you get the idea). The same inaccurate
conversion is done to 'process' RGB colours (italic name in the list) if
colour mangement is 'off'.

I have since found a way of getting these 'process' RGB colours, though
(it doesn't work with spot RGB colours): export your artwork as
'Photoshop 4/5 RGB EPS', and either re-import that into FH and print,
download it directly to the RIP if you have the ability, or, in OS 9,
drop it into a 'Desktop Printer' for your RIP/printer.


--


Danny

[Unregistered]

When exporting a file, select setup and you'll see the option to convert colours to, etc.

file>export>name your file and select generic EPS

click setup and within the EPS setup chose "convert colours to RGB" Then print the eps file.

I've had pretty good results colour matching this way too. Hope this helps.