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Sad Day for Freehand - Macromedia Freehand

Over the weekend, I visited the illustrator forums and was shocked at how may regular Freehand contributors are on these forums. I saw JET, Von and a couple others and it made me very sad. Over the years, I have grown to like and respect all the contributors and they will be missed. David...

  1. #1

    Default Sad Day for Freehand

    Over the weekend, I visited the illustrator forums and was shocked at how may
    regular Freehand contributors are on these forums. I saw JET, Von and a couple
    others and it made me very sad. Over the years, I have grown to like and
    respect all the contributors and they will be missed.

    David

    davecc Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Traitors, all of them.
    :-)
    I don't know what to say, David.
    No, wait. Yes I do.
    THIS STINKS.
    I'm trying to be enthusiastic about all of this, but if you read the AI
    forums, they're not having much fun either.
    That worries me.

    Hang in there pal, we are all in this together!

    -Curtis

    Acumowchek Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Yes it s!!!! Adobe will have to think about the Freehand users when they
    decide to pull it apart and steal features from it. Plus they have a good chunk
    of users here and in other countries to convert over to pick up some more $$$.
    The large corporation I work for dumped Illustrator and Quark about 7 years ago
    and went with Freehand for all their art depts across 13 states. So now
    what?..ha. Im sure adobe is going to do a lil magic dance to get them back
    purchasing more then just photoshop. Still the waiting game s =/

    den-chan Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Aowchek wrote:
     

    Yes, Illustrator has its share of warts.

    I'm going to wait until the ink is dry on the merger and Adobe announces an
    official position on the future of FreeHand. FH may appear to be in critical
    condition, but no death certificate has yet been signed.

    Imagine this scenario. Adobe acquires FH, adds an EPS interpreter, full PDF
    support, Unicode font support. They already have all this stuff -- it
    doesn't need to be invented. It leaves the FH drawing tools, Xtras, printing
    and F&RG as they are. I'm sure many FH users would be delighted to fork over
    the cash for such an upgrade.

    If you think we FH users are in limbo, think of all the MM employees whose
    jobs are now up in the air, facing new employers that will be looking for
    'redundancies'.

    At least we have the luxury of continuing to use FHMX and AI in tandem as
    long as our OS and hardware supports it.

    Judy Arndt

    Judy Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    den-chan wrote:
     

    Do you really think Adobe will suddenly pull the plug on FH, deliberately
    enraging clients like your employer?

    Do you really think that they'll say to their top customers, "We don't care
    about your costs and lost productivity in retraining all staff in all your
    art departments. All we want is the few bucks we'll force you to spend by
    buying both AI and InDesign"?

    Not a chance. Keeping customers happy keeps them coming back.

    Judy Arndt


    Judy Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Hmmm.

    Do you think Adobe will continue development on both FH and Illustrator?
    I doubt it.

    Do you think Adobe will modify Illustrator to suit former FH users? I
    doubt it.

    Do you think Adobe will incorporate some of the patented features of FH
    into Illustrator and offer it as upgrade? Yea, and we'll have to take it
    or go somewhere else.

    Freehand was saved when Adobe bought Aldus because of a legal agreement
    Aldus had to give the programmers a specified number of years of work.
    Unless there is some antitrust issue, and I doubt that, we will all be
    working on one page files.

    IMHO

    dp


    Judy Arndt wrote: 
    >
    >
    > Do you really think Adobe will suddenly pull the plug on FH, deliberately
    > enraging clients like your employer?
    >
    > Do you really think that they'll say to their top customers, "We don't care
    > about your costs and lost productivity in retraining all staff in all your
    > art departments. All we want is the few bucks we'll force you to spend by
    > buying both AI and InDesign"?
    >
    > Not a chance. Keeping customers happy keeps them coming back.
    >
    > Judy Arndt
    >
    >[/ref]
    D. Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    D. Plank wrote:
     

    It's possible. The development on FH might be low-key, though. Although
    InDesign is Adobe's flagship page layout software, they're now marketing
    PageMaker 7 to business and home users.

    This article explains what they did with PageMaker 7 (released in 2001).

    "Hardly a major release but the new PostScript/PDF functionality extends the
    old favourite's shelf-life."

    http://www.designer-info.com/master.htm?http://www.designer-info.com/Writing
    /adobe_pagemaker_7.htm

    http://tinyurl.com/dmfom

    Adobe is more than just Creative Suite. Look at their current product
    line-up. They market two levels of Photoshop, several levels of Acrobat.
    I'll bet they continue to market Streamline for non-Illustrator users.

    It's not unreasonable that they'll continue to support FreeHand as a niche
    market, for a least several years.

    Judy Arndt

    Judy Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Hello Judy,

    To answer your question..yes I do think Adobe could possibly pull the plug on
    FH and force my employer to buy whatever they have. I have learned to say
    "never say never" because wierd things you never expected can happen in the
    world. We have no idea what Adobe is going to do. We just have to wait and
    see. My employeer switched programs and systems once before and they will do it
    again if they have to. They have no reason to support 2 drawing app's. They
    will prob take a few of MM programmers etc and have them help merge features
    into hybrid products.

    den-chan Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Hello Judy,

    To answer your question..yes I do think Adobe could possibly pull the plug on
    FH and force my employer to buy whatever they have. I have learned to say
    "never say never" because wierd things you never expected can happen in the
    world. We have no idea what Adobe is going to do. We just have to wait and
    see. My employeer switched programs and systems once before and they will do it
    again if they have to. They have no reason to support 2 drawing app's. They
    will prob take a few of MM programmers etc and have them help merge features
    into hybrid products.

    den-chan Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Den ...... what you have to do is write a note, I can't recall the exact email
    add but it's on the forum somewhere. I write a note everyday. We all will be
    using the entire suite for some time yet. Think of what the Fireworks people
    are thinking, and Dreamweaver. In this merger adobe wanted Flash and
    Dreamweaver. I don't think they will touch those. Doing print - Adobe
    InDesign is a very good program, Dreamweaver is far superior to anything Adobe
    has - I agree with Judy - I think they'll offer a transitional program to
    illustrator. A little like they moved their Pagemaker people to InDesign with
    Pagemaker Plus. Freehand will be around for a long while yet. AND I'll buy
    the update to the suite expected later this fall. I think that Suite update
    will be a key as to where this thing is going. The Suite may contain Freehand
    integration to Adobe that we haven't seen. Macromedia is NOT going to put out
    a suite upgrade that does not have a direct path to Adobe.

    If for some reason they dump the MX Suite this summer - then you can worry. I
    think MM final version of their Suite will be very Adobe friendly. It will
    integrate. If they want you to use their product Adobe won't slash and trash.
    To me that policy is simply bad business. That's the only reason why
    Freehand, or MM suite users would buy the upgrade in the first place.

    I know when I mention Corel people moan - but there is an example here. Corel
    picked up Paint Shop Pro - and other than making the learning curve a little
    slower I doubt that Corel would buy a program like Paint Shop Pro and suddenly
    change it. Corel will increase their small business clients with an excellent
    photo editor - that being Paint Shop Pro over the photo paint that Corel suite
    has now. Corel improved their posture with a better program. Adobe knows
    that Freehand is easier to use than Illustrator; I think they'll learn
    something from it. Adobe products are highly overated and space prohibitive -
    they know that not every MM user has 1 gig of Ram in their computers.
    (certainly not mine, and I use MM suite comfortably with 500 meg.

    Bill

    Bill Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    > Sad Day for Freehand
     
     
     
     

    Excuse me?

    FreeHand was *saved* by that? This thread is all about
    woe-unto-us-FH-is-dead because FH was *saved* ? Face it, folks. FH was not
    saved. It was wrecked.

    If you believe so deeply that FH is entirely better, then why isn't it at
    the top of its market? Why has its market position relative to Illustrator's
    *slid* in recent years instead of gained?

    Someone once said that all business ventures fail for the same reason: poor
    management. For whatever reasons, unless FH is just a pile of junk (it
    isn't), then its "death" (if, in fact, that's what it turns out to
    be--something *this* FH user is not so eager to make a foregone and
    self-fulfilling conclusion) is only because Macromedia was a poor steward of
    it. Macromedia failed to capitalize upon and market and improve its historic
    *strengths.* (Does any of this sound vaguely familiar?)

    Instead, when they devoted any attention to it at all, it was always in the
    form of *emulating* its chief competitor (from the addition of an entirely
    superfluous hollow pointer to transparency, multiple strokes & fills, and
    brushes, done poorly instead of better), screaming "Us, too! Hey, look; we
    can do that, too!"

    Imitation is truly a sincere form of flattery. But it certainly isn't any
    way to say "We do it better."

    So now, Adobe--the only ones with the wherewithal to *actually* save FH (in
    some form or another) are the bad guys? I don't buy it.

    Three scenarios:

    Keep developing FH
    Adobe has a track record, folks. PageMaker was *very* gently, *very*
    gradually discontinued. FrameMaker, with its more vertically-oriented user
    base continues to be sold to its core long tech-ish, book-ish doent
    producing users. Is the addition of true footnoting to InDesign CS2 a step
    toward the impending end of FrameMaker? Probably. And if InDesign adequately
    satisfies, who cares?

    Under this scenario, perhaps the best thing garment-rending, teeth gnashing,
    sackcloth wearing FH users can do is make it known (nicely, please and with
    clear and sound explanation) why Illustrator currently *does not satisify*.

    Fold FH Into AI
    AI can be given multiple pages. It's pasteboard setup is almost identical to
    FH's prior to multiple pages. AI can be given a GF&R feature. AI can be
    given a Name All Colors feature. But only until and unless Adobe *and
    Illustrator users* understand the benefit of and the need for these things.

    On the other hand, though, I often wonder if other things are even possible.
    As I understand it, Adobe apps pretty much use their own graphics engines
    for their interfaces. Illustrator bases everything it does on an underlying
    72 points-per-inch measurement system. Does FH? I don't know. But might that
    have something to do with why AI can't do fourth-place decimal values
    without rounding errors occuring? Could that be part of why Illustrator
    still doesn't have custom rulers?

    Programmers will have to answer those questions. But of this I am certain:
    You go radically changing the way AI's directSelection tool works--even if
    dramatically for the better--and long time AI users will rebel. They will
    make the present blues-singing and tears-in-the-cold-cold-soup of defeatist
    FHers look like nothing. There will shovels and pitchforks and effigee
    burnings.

    Do Something Daring; Do Something Real
    Adobe InDesign was daring. Know what else? AICS2's Live Paint feature is
    daring. Personally, I don't care for it one whit, but it does demonstrate
    some fire-in-the-belly gusto on the part of this Adobe which you guys
    sometimes seem to equate with Sauron himself. Adobe evidently wanted so
    badly to give its users who were beginning to ask for an intuitive way to
    draw vectors (i.e.; Flash-like) that they determinedly stuffed this
    ill-fitting thing into Illustrator *along with* its historic and
    conventional Bezier interface. I personally doubt that it will catch on very
    strongly, especially now that Adobe owns the real McCoy. But it does show
    that Adobe isn't against doing something new.

    So what if development began on a truly *modern* drawing program? (face it.
    FH and AI both are pretty long-in-the-tooth; and much of their original
    elegance is lost in the continually tagged-on clutter.) One which embodied
    the strengths of AI and FH and a bunch of stuff they both still lack--all in
    a freshly and neatly organized interface. Pie-in-the-sky? Maybe. But who
    else has the power to do it, now that the rights to FH and AI features are
    under one roof?

    No matter how you look at it, if whatever happens is to happen rightly, it
    will have to happen with the input and participation of those intimately
    familiar with the advantages of FH--a sizeable chunk of Adobe's new
    customers.

    As for any anouncement regarding the future of FH, I would take a lengthy
    wait for that as a good thing; a sign that Adobe considers the issue worthy
    of some serious and careful consideration. (It's not like the future of FH
    suddenly became doubtful and uncertain last week, ya know.) What Adobe needs
    to clearly see in the meantime is that for many of their new customers,
    simply switching to AI isn't so simple. They will need this explained
    rationally and objectively, not emotionally.

    JET


    James Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    ha ha..thanks bill. I have written my notes to both companies already and will
    continue. Hopefully someone has read them. I hope all the other Users in here
    have been doing the same especially writting to Adobe. MM had mentioned they
    were going to release a Studio Mx upgrade the last quarter of this year. I am
    curisous to see what that will be like. Like Judy said FH isn't gonna magically
    disappear off our computers ...haha. So for now we can keep using our Fav app.

    By the way I don't know why so many people maon when people mention Corel.
    Draw reminds me of freehand but I still liked Freehand better. CD came a long
    way with Ver 12 and just like every other app it has its bugs =D

    den-chan Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Thanks D -

    Keep on writing. Top of mind - all marketing which I do for a living -
    obviously it's beating a dead horse, based on speculation - but speculation is
    always a coin toss.

    Keep writing man com

    I appreciate your response. Glad you're on the story.

    ;)

    Bill Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    James -

    Good points - thank you again for weighing in. I want you to keep what you
    wrote in mind. Because that is a possible answer. Can't predict the future.
    Can't buy Freehand or the suite off the shelf either. That's their mistake -
    marketing.

    Gotcha thinking though - thanks for the comments and remember

    com

    I think you could write a dandy - and send it a few times.

    Thanks James

    wwText

    Bill Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    James E. Talmage wrote:
     

    James, I do love it when you get on your soap box. :)

    I agree with everything you say about FH's past and unknowable future.

    Before you come down too hard on the "tears-in-the-cold-cold-soup" crowd,
    remember that you chose to switch to AI because it's tools met your needs
    better than FH's. For many of us, FH's tool set is still the better choice.
    The fear is that we will eventually have no choice, will be forced to switch
    programs.

    Proficiency in FH or AI is like a musical skill. You know the instrument,
    its limits and shortcomings, and you know how to make music. If I were a
    professional pianist, and was then told that from now on I could only play
    guitar, that would be a shocker.

    Someone says, 'Yeah but you can't play slide guitar on a piano."

    I say, "So what? I don't *want* to play slide guitar, I want to play a
    Chopin piano concerto."

    I have come to rely on the whole Find & Replace Graphics suite so heavily
    that I can't imagine living without it. Does AI have any way, within a
    selection of a specific stroke color, to select only a range of stroke
    widths within that color/stroke selection and replace it with another stroke
    width? I use that routine almost daily. I know exactly where to find it in
    F&RG. I don't have to rely on any third-party scripts.

    You see, if you work with spot colors all day, color management is not an
    issue. If transparency effects don't translate to spot output, then they are
    of no use. If you rarely use brushes, then AI's superior brushes are not a
    make-or-break issue. I could go on.

    I can always use AI for specific jobs when I want to use its tools -- the
    upcoming Live Trace in CS2 will probably be one of them. I just don't want
    FreeHand's tools, the ones that are superior, taken away from me.

    Judy Arndt




    Judy Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Bill Wood wrote:
     
    thanks for the comments and remember 

    Carpet-bombing the MM feedback email with repetitive posts is highly
    unlikely to get results. They'll just ignore the noise the way I ignore spam
    email. Anyway, Adobe management will be making the final decisions, so maybe
    you should be posting an Adobe feedback email address.

    James sure could write a dandy feedback, though. We remember well the FH 10
    pen tool fiasco and his unrelenting onslaught of criticism. He was almost
    banned from this forum at one point! I'm sure the FH management hasn't
    forgotten their splitting headache. Ah, for the good, old days. :-)

    Judy Arndt

    Judy Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    Maybe the 1st action :

    The Fontographer's news group is down this morning. I got the message "The
    newsgroup does not exist on the server", try to think which news group will
    follow?


    Eddie Yuen

    Machild Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    You know....., If you lift up the lid and jump, in you can play a pretty mean slide guitar on a piano!!!:D
    YoJoArts Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    JET,

    Personally, I cant wait for this formerly fine application to hobble its now
    disheveled and mistreated bag of code over to someone who will either restore
    it to its former glory or finish it off humanely like they did to Old Yeller.

    I mean, even if Adobe does Frankenstein it into Illustrator, it will be like
    at the end of Old Yeller when the young girl brings over some of Yellers
    puppies. So maybe we will get Freehand puppies...or something like that.

    Sniff....I'm not crying, theres just something in my eye....sniff...poor old
    yeller....sniff.

    Pappy

    Pappy Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Sad Day for Freehand

    JET,

    Personally, I cant wait for this formerly fine application to hobble its now
    disheveled and mistreated bag of code over to someone who will either restore
    it to its former glory or finish it off humanely like they did to Old Yeller.

    I mean, even if Adobe does Frankenstein it into Illustrator, it will be like
    at the end of Old Yeller when the young girl brings over some of Yellers
    puppies. So maybe we will get Freehand puppies...or something like that.

    Sniff....I'm not crying, theres just something in my eye....sniff...poor old
    yeller....sniff.

    Pappy

    Pappy Guest

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