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SCO urban legends - SCO

> From: Scott (demon.c.u.o.t.s.a) on 2003-09-02 13:10:02 PST:  Not true. A pretty small percentage of the people within SCO are dealing with the IP/legal issues.     This seems to have become the leading SCO urban legend, no doubt because of the deliciously ironic quality it would have if it were true. But it ain't! You can see SCO's product line at http://www.sco.com/products/, and many of these products have had new releases within the past year. Yes, one (not the only!) of the new features of these OS releases has been including ported versions of a variety of (non-Linux) open ...

  1. #1

    Default SCO urban legends

    > From: Scott (demon.c.u.o.t.s.a) on 2003-09-02 13:10:02 PST: 

    Not true. A pretty small percentage of the people within SCO are
    dealing with the IP/legal issues.
     
     

    This seems to have become the leading SCO urban legend, no doubt
    because of the deliciously ironic quality it would have if it
    were true. But it ain't!

    You can see SCO's product line at http://www.sco.com/products/, and
    many of these products have had new releases within the past year.

    Yes, one (not the only!) of the new features of these OS releases
    has been including ported versions of a variety of (non-Linux)
    open source software technologies. But that's a trend that's been
    going on in SCO's operating systems for some time (and in other
    commercial OSes as well, such as Solaris), not just since the
    Linux IP issues were raised.

    More specifically if you want to see what SCO is up to in its product
    lines and what was discussed at this annual meeting, browse the
    meeting's presentations at http://www.sco.com/2003forum/ppt.html.

    In particular, see
    http://www.sco.com/2003forum/keynotes/hunsaker_hughes_roadmap_final_files/frame.htm
    to see future SCO product directions, including new releases for OpenServer
    and UnixWare, the web services-based SCOx initiative, the SVR6 operating
    environment initiative, and SCO UNIX 9 for 64-bit platforms. That's a
    lot of new stuff!

    Jonathan Schilling
    J. Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    J. L. Schilling <com> wrote:
     
     

    The irony of the open source inclusions comes from Daryl McBride's
    comments about the GPL:

    "At the end of the day, the GPL is not about making software free; it's
    about destroying value."

    I find it hard to imagine how one could spin that to reconcile
    with the Samba (or Open Source in general) additions. This guy
    has to be among the worst things that has ever happened to SCO.

    And the trend, while it does predate this current muck, only does
    so barely. Prior to 5.0.7, precious little attention was paid to
    any of this stuff. Doesn't really seem to qualify as a "trend" to
    me, though I'd be delighted if it grows up to become one.

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    com wrote in message news:<bjibmo$a9m$std.com>... 

    >
    > The irony of the open source inclusions comes from Daryl McBride's
    > comments about the GPL:
    >
    > "At the end of the day, the GPL is not about making software free; it's
    > about destroying value."
    >
    > I find it hard to imagine how one could spin that to reconcile
    > with the Samba (or Open Source in general) additions. This guy
    > has to be among the worst things that has ever happened to SCO.[/ref]

    That's a different discussion (one, is Open Source a good thing or not,
    and two, if you believe that it isn't, is it ok if you take advantage
    of it anyway?) (my own personal answers are, I'm not sure, and
    I'm not sure :-).

    My purpose is just to deflate this notion that adding Samba is the
    only enhancement SCO has made to its products lately, which is
    ludicrously wrong.
     

    I'm more familiar with the UnixWare side ... Apache, Squid, and GCC
    have been official, supported parts of UW7 for several years and
    releases now, well before the current events.

    Jonathan Schilling
    J. Guest

  4. Moderated Post

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    Removed by Administrator
    FyRE Guest
    Moderated Post

  5. #5

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    On 8 Sep 2003 14:31:58 -0700, com (J. L.
    Schilling) wrote:

    [...]
     

    How can anyone claim OS is not a good thing? If I wish to write code,
    and release it under a licence I choose, why the hell shouldn't I?
    It's my time, and my decision! If you wish to take advantage of it,
    then fine, so long as you respect my wishes and abide by the GPL. If
    you don't want to abide by the GPL, go write/buy your own software,
    I'm not forcing you to use mine.

    Sheesh!

    --
    FyRE < "Ready Cursor" >
    FyRE Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    FyRE <demon.ku.oc.x> wrote in message news:<com>... 
    >
    > How can anyone claim OS is not a good thing? If I wish to write code,
    > and release it under a licence I choose, why the hell shouldn't I?
    > It's my time, and my decision![/ref]

    Agreed. The arguments revolve around whether open source software is an
    economically sustainable model in general, and whether the disappearance
    of commercial/proprietary software in certain domain areas is an
    desirable or acceptable outcome.

    I believe there are reasonable arguments to be made on both sides of
    these questions; I guess time is going to tell.
     

    Agreed also. Note however that much open source software is released
    under licenses other than the GPL; don't conflate the two.

    Jonathan Schilling
    J. Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    FyRE <demon.ku.oc.x> wrote in message news:<com>... 
    > >
    > >Not true. A pretty small percentage of the people within SCO are
    > >dealing with the IP/legal issues.[/ref]
    >
    > Well I'm sure I can dig out the article where SCO themselves claim
    > over half their sales force are fielding calls (probably mostly
    > abusive) concerning their latest scam, known as the "Linux licence".[/ref]

    Here's the SCO figure, from slide 19 of
    http://www.sco.com/2003forum/keynotes/mcbride_keynote_final_files/frame.htm:

    10 Employees Support SCOsource [the IP licensing program]
    325 Employees are Building the Core Business
    SCO Continues to Maintain and Attract Customers
     

    It's public record that the current incarnation of SCO is smaller than
    the older, pre-Caldera one. That's a common trend in the software
    industry
    when comparing today to the mid-late 90's. It's also common in the
    software
    industry that when companies make big changes in direction (as the
    current
    SCO certainly has vis a vis Caldera), some employees don't like the
    change
    and leave. But that doesn't mean that SCO has no engineers left and
    is
    thus unable to do new product work, which is what you seem to be
    claiming.
     

    I don't know what Sun is saying, they've had their own problems....
     

    Here are the details about the next OpenServer release (code name
    "Legend"),
    from slide 16 at http://www.sco.com/2003forum/keynotes/hunsaker_hughes_roadmap_final_files/frame.htm:

    New database, Java and application support
    Extensive new hardware support
    Expanded security features
    Added Windows compatibility
    Complete Web support
    SCOx enabled

    This was in a keynote address, so it may not be as low-level as you'd
    like,
    but for example the first item includes improving OpenServer for
    multithreaded
    applications, and the last item includes improving OpenServer for
    SOAP/XML/
    web services operations so that it can serve as an efficient
    "substrate" for
    some powerful web services-based middleware that's being developed.

    Jonathan Schilling
    J. Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: sco-list: Re: SCO urban legends

    On Tue, Sep 09, 2003, J. L. Schilling wrote:
    ....
     

    One could make the same argument over any obsolete technology or
    business model. ``We have been making buggy whips for years, and
    deserve to continue to make a living without having to learn
    anything new'' has been a common argument by Big Labor for years.

    Bill
    --
    INTERNET: COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
    UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
    FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
    URL: http://www.celestial.com/

    Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he
    is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
    make messes in the house.
    -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"

    Bill Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    On 9 Sep 2003, J. L. Schilling wrote:
     
    > >
    > > How can anyone claim OS is not a good thing? If I wish to write code,
    > > and release it under a licence I choose, why the hell shouldn't I?
    > > It's my time, and my decision![/ref]
    >
    > Agreed. The arguments revolve around whether open source software is an
    > economically sustainable model in general,[/ref]

    No, that's Darl's argument and makes presupmtions about open source that
    are not valid.

    A valid question would be whether one can build an economically stable
    business model around open source. They way you stated it implies that
    "Open Source Software" is in some way a business. It isn't.
     

    That is a good question. But the answer is irrelevent: It is quite clear
    that some proprietary software is going to disappear. Many governments
    around the world don't want to import software and open source provides
    the most efficient way to eliminate that import.

    So the question should be: how to deal with the impact of open source
    software and its disruptive effects on the software ecostructure?

     
    >
    > Agreed also. Note however that much open source software is released
    > under licenses other than the GPL; don't conflate the two.[/ref]

    That's very true. But SCO seems to have GPL software in its sights.
    Probably because GPL-licensed software provides the biggest threat to SCO.

    Whoever Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    In article <google.com>,
    J. L. Schilling <com> wrote:
     [/ref]
     [/ref]
     

    But there is a PR problem because of the comments at the Samba site.

    Go to your nearest Samba site such as:
    http://us1.samba.org/samba/samba.html
    and see their comments about the GPL, Samba, SCO calling the SCO
    announcments 'the depths of hypocrisy'.

    I really was suprised when I saw that. It's the second item
    in the 'news' area and is date 2003-08-19 - just below
    the Samba 3.0 announcment. The Samba organization is not helping.

    Bill
    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv wjv . com
    Bill Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    J. L. Schilling <com> wrote: 
    >>
    >> How can anyone claim OS is not a good thing? If I wish to write code,
    >> and release it under a licence I choose, why the hell shouldn't I?
    >> It's my time, and my decision![/ref][/ref]
     

    It may not be economically sustainable for corporations like SCO,
    but it is for other people. My web site is free, but I make a pretty
    good living from it. Lots of people who give away their software
    make money customizing it or consulting on it. It's nonsense to
    think that this isn't viable. Times change: the mammals get smarter,
    and the dinosaurs turn into birds or die.
     

    Ayup. If there were any brainy dinosaurs about, I imagine they
    weren't too sure about that mammal stuff either.

    I'll tell you this: It's getting harder and harder to give SCO
    the benefit of the doubt. That latest "open letter", with its
    deliberate distortion of Peren's remarks, is simply disgusting.
    If they really do have proof of theft, they shouldn't need to
    stoop to such degrading tactics.

    Folks ought to really think about what's going on when even
    the dealer base is starting to get a foul taste in our mouths.

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html

    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Bill Vermillion wrote:
     

    Just why should the Samba organization help? Live by the sword, die by the
    sword! SCO management has been pouring out FUD, if they get some bad press
    in return it is their own fault.


    Whoever Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: SCO urban legends

    com wrote in message news:<bjlref$8nv$std.com>... [/ref]

    [I should have said "application domains" or something like that;
    "domain areas" is redundant!]
     

    Well, ogies to dinosaurs, buggy whips, and the like aren't exact;
    here, it isn't the technology of the software itself that's changing,
    but rather the ways and means of owning/distributing/pricing it.

    In any case, I'm not an economist and I don't have any brilliant
    thoughts to offer on the subject. My purpose in posting this thread
    was simply to use the public record to debunk two false notions of
    SCO that are being pushed out there: that SCO isn't doing product
    development because everybody's working on the IP/legal issues,
    and that the only new product feature SCO is putting out is a
    packaging of Samba. Both claims are totally untrue.

    Jonathan Schilling
    J. Guest

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