second 20D dies...

[Ryadia]

This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses. No
amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras are
shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just before
the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!

Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again. They
lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the 20D
is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.

Doug

[David H. Lipman]

Please elaborate on the circumstances of BOTH failures.

Thanx...
Dave



"Ryadia" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..
| This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses. No
| amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras are
| shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just before
| the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!
|
| Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
| keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again. They
| lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the 20D
| is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.
|
| Doug
|
|
|
|

[Larry]

troll alert....

"Ryadia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

> This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses.

No

> amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras are
> shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just

before

> the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!
>
> Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
> keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again. They
> lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the 20D
> is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>

[Bart van der Wolf]

"David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cknwd.16$_62.9@trnddc01...

> Please elaborate on the circumstances of BOTH failures.

Spoken as a psychiatrist, or photographer?

I sympathise with Ryadia though, it seems an extremely unlucky
situation. My 20D (no battery grip) is fine.

Bart

[David H. Lipman]

Spoken as a Senior Engineer. Electronics and computers are my bread and butter.
So put the 20D on the couch :-)

Dave



"Bart van der Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:41c209f0$0$559$[email protected]..
|
| "David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:cknwd.16$_62.9@trnddc01...
| > Please elaborate on the circumstances of BOTH failures.
|
| Spoken as a psychiatrist, or photographer?
|
| I sympathise with Ryadia though, it seems an extremely unlucky
| situation. My 20D (no battery grip) is fine.
|
| Bart
|

[David H. Lipman]

Thanx Doug !

Dave




"Ryadia" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..
| The first camera would die whenever I changed a (Genuine Canon) lens. Pop
| the battery and it was OK again. It died totally for no reason, in the
| middle of a shoot in the second week of ownership. My dealer agreed to take
| it back and sell me a different model (Canon) camera.
|
| The one that just died, is the first one I bought -10 days before the one
| which died first. Until 2 weeks ago it was fine. Then it flashed all it's
| messages in the middle of a shoot and died. It stayed dead for 3 days. I put
| a battery in it last Monday to send it back to Canon and it booted. I've
| shot 1900 frames with 3 different lenses since then. Yesterday I shot 20
| frames with the flash and today, before I could shoot a frame, it died
| completely and can't be booted.
|
| The only reason I accepted another Canon camera when the first one died was
| my lenses. $2500 for a camera but $15,000 for lenses means changing brands
| is a monster of a decision. Well... I just decided. It might take me a few
| months but I am changing camps.
|
| A lot of people have speculated about the reasons for these (not just mine)
| cameras acting up. I think in my case it is temperature related. It is high
| summer in Australia. Daytime temperatures in Queensland are as often as not
| close to or over 40C - sometimes up to 50C. The cameras get hot internally
| on top of this and their top operating temperature is 44C. I think the flash
| capacitor is interfering with the circuitry and bring the thing to a halt.
| Whatever it is, it just is not good enough in any way, shape or form.
|
| I have a SD9 Sigma that has done over 130,000 frames. Every time one of
| these Canon's shits itself, guess what bails me out of trouble? One thing I
| know absolutely. Image quality doesn't matter a pinch if you can't deliver
| the photos at the end of the day. The Sigma has it's idiosyncrasies but it
| has reliability on it's side too.
|
| A Minolta Dynax 7D is arriving today *with* a sales rep. I'll tell you
| tomorrow if I decide to keep it!
|
| Doug
|
|
| "David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:cknwd.16$_62.9@trnddc01...
| > Please elaborate on the circumstances of BOTH failures.
| >
| > Thanx...
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| > "Ryadia" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:[email protected]..
| > | This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses.
| No
| > | amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras
| are
| > | shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just
| before
| > | the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!
| > |
| > | Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
| > | keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again.
| They
| > | lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the
| 20D
| > | is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.
| > |
| > | Doug
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

[Ryadia]

The first camera would die whenever I changed a (Genuine Canon) lens. Pop
the battery and it was OK again. It died totally for no reason, in the
middle of a shoot in the second week of ownership. My dealer agreed to take
it back and sell me a different model (Canon) camera.

The one that just died, is the first one I bought -10 days before the one
which died first. Until 2 weeks ago it was fine. Then it flashed all it's
messages in the middle of a shoot and died. It stayed dead for 3 days. I put
a battery in it last Monday to send it back to Canon and it booted. I've
shot 1900 frames with 3 different lenses since then. Yesterday I shot 20
frames with the flash and today, before I could shoot a frame, it died
completely and can't be booted.

The only reason I accepted another Canon camera when the first one died was
my lenses. $2500 for a camera but $15,000 for lenses means changing brands
is a monster of a decision. Well... I just decided. It might take me a few
months but I am changing camps.

A lot of people have speculated about the reasons for these (not just mine)
cameras acting up. I think in my case it is temperature related. It is high
summer in Australia. Daytime temperatures in Queensland are as often as not
close to or over 40C - sometimes up to 50C. The cameras get hot internally
on top of this and their top operating temperature is 44C. I think the flash
capacitor is interfering with the circuitry and bring the thing to a halt.
Whatever it is, it just is not good enough in any way, shape or form.

I have a SD9 Sigma that has done over 130,000 frames. Every time one of
these Canon's shits itself, guess what bails me out of trouble? One thing I
know absolutely. Image quality doesn't matter a pinch if you can't deliver
the photos at the end of the day. The Sigma has it's idiosyncrasies but it
has reliability on it's side too.

A Minolta Dynax 7D is arriving today *with* a sales rep. I'll tell you
tomorrow if I decide to keep it!

Doug


"David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cknwd.16$_62.9@trnddc01...

> Please elaborate on the circumstances of BOTH failures.
>
> Thanx...
> Dave
>
>
>
> "Ryadia" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:[email protected]..

> | This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses.

No

> | amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras

are

> | shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just

before

> | the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!
> |
> | Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
> | keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again.

They

> | lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the

20D

> | is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.
> |
> | Doug
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
>

[David H. Lipman]

This is a legitimate feedback post -- Doug is opinionated but he is NOT a Troll !

If Doug said he had two Canon 20D units fail -- I believe him.

Dave



"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:tLnwd.5458$jn.1306@lakeread06...
| troll alert....
|

[Alan Browne]

Ryadia wrote:

> This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses. No
> amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras are
> shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just before
> the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!

Don't buy any loto tickets for a while either. I think there is a bad luck
cloud over your head right now.

> Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
> keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again. They
> lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the 20D
> is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.

You're the first I've heard with such bad luck.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: [url]http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm[/url]
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: [url]http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm[/url]
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: [url]http://www.pbase.com/shootin[/url]
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

[Alan Browne]

Ryadia wrote:

> A Minolta Dynax 7D is arriving today *with* a sales rep. I'll tell you
> tomorrow if I decide to keep it!

Wonderful. I reccomend the 80-200 f/2.8 G (and new SSM v. 70-200), 28-70 f/2.8
G, the 100 f/2.8 macro (razor).

I also have and like the 20mm f/2.8, but don't use it enough.

Given the crop factor, however, you might need to adjust your lens choices. The
24-105 is probably a great compromise for a lot of shooting sits.

The 5600HS(D) flash is quite good, and a Maxxum with a pair of those flashes
properly setup off camera will give you great lighting.

I look forward to your eval. of the 7D.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: [url]http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm[/url]
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: [url]http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm[/url]
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: [url]http://www.pbase.com/shootin[/url]
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

[Ryadia]

"David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:S%nwd.22$_62.14@trnddc01...

> This is a legitimate feedback post -- Doug is opinionated but he is NOT a

Troll !

>
> If Doug said he had two Canon 20D units fail -- I believe him.
>
> Dave
> |
>

Don't worry about David, I've been accused of worse.
Anyone who knows me, knows me.

Back to the 20D

I pulled the little internal battery out a while ago and recharged the
batteries in the grip. Amazingly enough it has booted again. Someone else
said Canon had a recognized problem with grips. Something about using AAs in
the holder that comes with the grips. I just cleaned all the contacts in the
battery compartment and the grip contacts. I'll see how it goes today.

No change of getting Canon to do anything this close to Christmas so if it
works, it can backup the 1D and I'll use the Sigma with maybe the Minolta
for a backup, I trust it's reliability if nothing else. Otherwise it's film
time for backups! I'm rapidly running out of backup cameras!

Doug

[Frank ess]

Ryadia wrote:

> "David H. Lipman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:S%nwd.22$_62.14@trnddc01...

>> This is a legitimate feedback post -- Doug is opinionated but he is
>> NOT a Troll !
>>
>> If Doug said he had two Canon 20D units fail -- I believe him.
>>
>> Dave

>>>

>>

> Don't worry about David, I've been accused of worse.
> Anyone who knows me, knows me.
>
> Back to the 20D
>
> I pulled the little internal battery out a while ago and recharged the
> batteries in the grip. Amazingly enough it has booted again. Someone
> else said Canon had a recognized problem with grips. Something about
> using AAs in the holder that comes with the grips. I just cleaned all
> the contacts in the battery compartment and the grip contacts. I'll
> see how it goes today.
>
> No change of getting Canon to do anything this close to Christmas so
> if it works, it can backup the 1D and I'll use the Sigma with maybe
> the Minolta for a backup, I trust it's reliability if nothing else.
> Otherwise it's film time for backups! I'm rapidly running out of
> backup cameras!
>
> Doug

I read in someone's 20D forum there were problems with the battery-grip
snugging up to the camera body -- it didn't. Some respondents said they
fixed it with shims, others said the shims had no effect, all said it
quit without warning when assembled from the boxes.

The one example I have seen fits snug and acts the way it should.

I found the forum by Googling "20D battery grip", or something near
that.


--
Frank ess

[John McWilliams]

Ryadia wrote:

> A lot of people have speculated about the reasons for these (not just mine)
> cameras acting up. I think in my case it is temperature related. It is high
> summer in Australia. Daytime temperatures in Queensland are as often as not
> close to or over 40C - sometimes up to 50C. The cameras get hot internally
> on top of this and their top operating temperature is 44C. I think the flash
> capacitor is interfering with the circuitry and bring the thing to a halt.
> Whatever it is, it just is not good enough in any way, shape or form.
>

Good Lord! You're taking multiple rapid flash pix in high heat and
humidity, with the internal flash already, and you wonder the camera chokes?

I am not sure the high end Canons can take that type of very high stress
shooting for a prolonged period.

The 20D is a fine camera, but it's not truly a high end Pro camera.
Lotsa luck with your substitutes under the same conditions.

--

John McWilliams

[Lisa Horton]

John McWilliams wrote:

>
> Ryadia wrote:
>

> > A lot of people have speculated about the reasons for these (not just mine)
> > cameras acting up. I think in my case it is temperature related. It is high
> > summer in Australia. Daytime temperatures in Queensland are as often as not
> > close to or over 40C - sometimes up to 50C. The cameras get hot internally
> > on top of this and their top operating temperature is 44C. I think the flash
> > capacitor is interfering with the circuitry and bring the thing to a halt.
> > Whatever it is, it just is not good enough in any way, shape or form.
> >

> Good Lord! You're taking multiple rapid flash pix in high heat and
> humidity, with the internal flash already, and you wonder the camera chokes?
>
> I am not sure the high end Canons can take that type of very high stress
> shooting for a prolonged period.
>
> The 20D is a fine camera, but it's not truly a high end Pro camera.
> Lotsa luck with your substitutes under the same conditions.

You've got a pont John. If one is using a camera in an environment at a
temperature 6C higher than the cameras maximum operating temprature, a
failure would be expected, not the exception. I don't think Canon was
kidding when they said "maximum" :)

Lisa

[Ryadia]

"Frank ess" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

>
> I read in someone's 20D forum there were problems with the battery-grip
> snugging up to the camera body -- it didn't. Some respondents said they
> fixed it with shims, others said the shims had no effect, all said it
> quit without warning when assembled from the boxes.
>
> The one example I have seen fits snug and acts the way it should.
>
> I found the forum by Googling "20D battery grip", or something near
> that.
>
>
> --
> Frank ess
>

Thank you Frank.
I've just finished doing the early Santa rounds and the 20D has run
flawlessly *Without* the grip. I'm not sure if the grip was the problem or
not but when I actually analize the events leading to the problem... Each
time the batteries were 35% or less. Perhaps that has something to do with
it. The temprature today is only about 32C and inside the centre the 20D is
working in, it's a comfortable 26C.

I suspect the earlier replies about "top end" cameras and high heat might be
more related to these Prosumer cameras. I also have a 1D mark II. This is a
relatively new camera (2 weeks old) but none the less gets worked as hard as
the other. It hasn't faltered (yet). I guess at 4 times the price of a 20D
it would want to be reliable.

I leave for northern Queensland next month. The daytime temperatures are
over 45C every day this time of the year and the cameras will not have any
cooling other than what the wind brings. I'm also taking my 100% manual
Mamiya 645. I'd hopes the investment in digital would have avoided this.

[Randall Ainsworth]

In article <[email protected]>, Ryadia
<[email protected]> wrote:

> This is the second 20D I've had that totally died after changing lenses. No
> amount of "battery out", batter in has any effect. Geezz these cameras are
> shit! Why does it happen in the high season? why on Fridays? Why just before
> the second busiest day of my year? Because it can, I guess!
>
> Out with the Amex and into Nikon - or Minolta or anything that actually
> keeps working... Not another Canon product will I touch, ever again. They
> lie about the life of their photo prints and refuse to accept that the 20D
> is a lemon and recall them. Bloody mongrel Japenese company.

Sounds like a PEBCAK problem to me.

[Randall Ainsworth]

In article <S%nwd.22$_62.14@trnddc01>, David H. Lipman
<[email protected]> wrote:

> This is a legitimate feedback post -- Doug is opinionated but he is NOT a
> Troll !
>
> If Doug said he had two Canon 20D units fail -- I believe him.

But he also thinks Sigma is a great piece of equipment.

[Ryadia]

"Alan Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cpt3h1$1vh$[email protected]..

> Ryadia wrote:
>
>

> > A Minolta Dynax 7D is arriving today *with* a sales rep. I'll tell you
> > tomorrow if I decide to keep it!

>
> I look forward to your eval. of the 7D.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>

No Minolta 7D for me!
I don't know if Canon are leading the field with DSLRs or not. I know for an
absolute fact that Minolta won't claim that distintion any time soon. The
only positive I could find about this camera is that you can use your
existing Minolta lenses with it and it makes a nice change to see how a DSLR
viewfinder really should work. It's skin tones are pretty good, reds better
tahn a Canon's ultra saturation but nothing earth shattering enough to
warrant a purchase.

The operating environment of these jiggers in the same as a 20D and you can
tether one to a PC but the software to do that didn't arrive for the demo so
I'll never know how it works in this mode! I like the colour (black) but
that's about it. On it's worst day, a 10D Canon would out shoot a 7D. On
it's best day, ...well I still have a soft spot for the name of Minolta, not
to mention a sizable investment in their digital printers so I think I'll
leave it at that.

It seems that the death of my 20Ds is caused by the original battery cover
'open' switch short circuiting when the accessory grip is in place and some
strain put on the grip. I haven't proven that yet but the fact the camera
shot 480 frames today without the grip attached (one battery change too),
suggests the information I found about it and how to fix it might have
merit. When I'm rested tomorrow, I'll get the tools out and see if it looks
to be the case or not.

Doug

[David H. Lipman]

So -- What does that have to do with the price of Tea in Texas ?

Dave



"Randall Ainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:161220042125210736%[email protected]..
| In article <S%nwd.22$_62.14@trnddc01>, David H. Lipman
| <[email protected]> wrote:
|
| > This is a legitimate feedback post -- Doug is opinionated but he is NOT a
| > Troll !
| >
| > If Doug said he had two Canon 20D units fail -- I believe him.
|
| But he also thinks Sigma is a great piece of equipment.

[Petros]

Lisa Horton posted:

>
>
> John McWilliams wrote:

> >
> > Ryadia wrote:
> >

> > > A lot of people have speculated about the reasons for these (not just mine)
> > > cameras acting up. I think in my case it is temperature related. It is high
> > > summer in Australia. Daytime temperatures in Queensland are as often as not
> > > close to or over 40C - sometimes up to 50C. The cameras get hot internally
> > > on top of this and their top operating temperature is 44C. I think the flash
> > > capacitor is interfering with the circuitry and bring the thing to a halt.
> > > Whatever it is, it just is not good enough in any way, shape or form.
> > >

> > Good Lord! You're taking multiple rapid flash pix in high heat and
> > humidity, with the internal flash already, and you wonder the camera chokes?
> >
> > I am not sure the high end Canons can take that type of very high stress
> > shooting for a prolonged period.
> >
> > The 20D is a fine camera, but it's not truly a high end Pro camera.
> > Lotsa luck with your substitutes under the same conditions.

>
> You've got a pont John. If one is using a camera in an environment at a
> temperature 6C higher than the cameras maximum operating temprature, a
> failure would be expected, not the exception. I don't think Canon was
> kidding when they said "maximum" :)
>
> Lisa
>

For a camera with a black body to only work up to 40 degrees cent. is
scandalous!
--
Petros
Ap' ola prin ipirche o Logos