Setting a Spot Color to Overprint

[Brian]

Is there a way in InDesign CS to set a color to overprint, as you can in
PageMaker, CorelDRAW and FreeHand?

(Please note that I am talking about specifying this for a spot color,
either in the swatches palette or at print time in the print dialog - I
am not referring to setting an object's fill or stroke to overprint.)

Thanks!
Brian

[Bob_Levine]

Not that I know of.

Bob

[Brian]

> Not that I know of.

That stinks. I'll send that to the feature request form for certain, I
can't believe this was left out for three versions now...

[Scott_Falkner@adobeforums.com]

can't believe this was left out for three versions now...




Four, actually. 1, 1.5, 2, 3.

[Gernot_Hoffmann@adobeforums.com]

Brian,

could it be that this feature is not available because
the spot color wouldn´t look as expected ?

The appearance of spot inks is correct if the background
is white (thin ink layers, 1 micrometer).
There are many options for trapping.

On the other hand: what happens if we want to apply a
varnish ? This should overprint everything.
For this application your question is IMO very reasonable.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

[Brian]

> could it be that this feature is not available because

> the spot color wouldn´t look as expected ?

That should be my responsiblity, though, to understand how my inks will
be printed...

> The appearance of spot inks is correct if the background
> is white (thin ink layers, 1 micrometer).

We output spot separations almost exclusively for silkscreening on CDs
using UV inks, for which trapping rules are definitely different than
ink on paper; it is very often that we will overprint an entire
separation, since many of the inks are quite opaque and they are
completely dried (er, cured via UV light) before the next ink is applied.

> On the other hand: what happens if we want to apply a
> varnish ? This should overprint everything.
> For this application your question is IMO very reasonable.

I think it should be available, since there are definitely situations
during output that require it... not including it for fear of someone
using it incorrectly is misguided at best, kinda like not putting an
accellerator pedal in a car for fear someone might drive too fast...



Brian

[Brian]

> Four, actually. 1, 1.5, 2, 3.

Oh yeah, I always forget about 1.5...

[Gernot_Hoffmann@adobeforums.com]

Brian,

now you had introduced a very new aspect: silk screening.
ID is a DTP program. Inks are expected as offset inks.
Trapping is handled really sophisticated. By ink densities.

Perhaps other programs are better for your purpose.

Of course - strictly overprinting would solve the problem.
Put it on the wish-list.

I´m very critical - as somebody who doesn´t move voluntarily
from PM to ID. But the handling of Spot Inks in ID seems to
be correct (IMO).

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

[Bob_Levine]

I agree with Gernot 100%. I can't possibly imagine any document needing
to have a certain ink overprint throughout.

Having it as a possibility would undoubtedly cause more problems than
having to select each instance and set it to overprint.

Bob

[Dave_Saunders@adobeforums.com]

I can.

Fifth color in a teacher's edition of a text book must overprint.

Dave

[Bob_Levine]

So what do you do in such an instance? A script?

Bob

[Dave_Saunders@adobeforums.com]

Well, in PageMaker, I used to set the spot color to overprint.

But indeed, in InDesign I wrote a script (for 1.5--I've not done any more books that needed that since then).

Dave

[Bob_Levine]

So, would you agree that having that "feature" could cause more problems
than it solves?

Bob

[Dave_Saunders@adobeforums.com]

No. I think it would save a lot of fiddling around and tedious hard work.

I also have a nagging feeling that if I only understood the parameters in the ink manager, I might be able to force an ink to overprint in there anyway.

Dave

[Brian]

> I agree with Gernot 100%. I can't possibly imagine any document needing

> to have a certain ink overprint throughout.

That doesn't mean the need doesn't exist.

> Having it as a possibility would undoubtedly cause more problems than
> having to select each instance and set it to overprint.

Funny how it doesn't cause any problems in the three applications that
provide this (PageMaker, FreeHand, CorelDRAW) but rather solves a lot of
problems.

[Brian]

> now you had introduced a very new aspect: silk screening.

> ID is a DTP program. Inks are expected as offset inks.

That's bull - so you're saying that spot inks have no place in page
layout? What planet are you from?

InDesign provides 99% support for spot inks, the only thing that appears
to be missing is the option to set an ink to overprint.

> Perhaps other programs are better for your purpose.

So by your reasoning I should have to rework client layouts that are
supplied in InDesign simply because Adobe forgot to include a vital
output feature? Sorry, I disagree 100%.

[Brian]

> So, would you agree that having that "feature" could cause more problems

> than it solves?

To a professional prepress operator? Absolutely not.

[Dave_Saunders@adobeforums.com]

I wonder, though, whether to place to add this feature, if it's not already there wrapped up in incomprehensible arcane terminology, isn't the ink manager.

I could certainly live with that, provided that the terminology was straightforward and to the point: Overprint this ink, yes/no.

Dave

[Brian]

> Well, in PageMaker, I used to set the spot color to overprint.

Exactly!

> But indeed, in InDesign I wrote a script (for 1.5--I've not done any more books that needed that since then).

Do you know of a script for this purpose that would work in CS? (I've
never written a script before, I suppose this could be a good
opportunity to try to learn - I'm not much of a coder, tho...)

[Brian]

> I wonder, though, whether to place to add this feature, if it's not

> already there wrapped up in incomprehensible arcane terminology,
> isn't the ink manager.
>
> I could certainly live with that, provided that the terminology was
> straightforward and to the point: Overprint this ink, yes/no.

Either there or in the swatches palette itself - PageMaker works by
defining the color itself to overprint, CorelDRAW lets you set the sep
to overprint at output, and I find both to be equally usable.