Setting up PC for dual-boot Linux and Windows XP

[John Seeliger]

I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.
I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should I
partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?

Linkworld 300W Case
ECS K7S5A Pro
AMD Athlon 2000+
Copper Cooler
Mushkin PC 2100 DDR 256 MB
Kaser AGP
Inland Firewire
Norcent 16x DVD
Pine CD-RW
Maxtor 40 GB 7200 rpm

Thanks.

--
John Seeliger Limited but increasing content
[email]jseelige@yahoo.com[/email] <http://www.freewebz.com/hudathunkett/>
[email]jseelige@aaahawk.com[/email]

[Ed Light]

You can use bootitng later to shrink the Linux partition and create one for
XP, manage the boots, and image them too.

When you make the partition for XP make it a fat32 with align for ntfs
checked. Then when you install XP choose NTFS. (This gets around an XP
failing.)
--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:vkvcdgocge6m13@corp.supernews.com...

> When you make the partition for XP make it a fat32 with align for ntfs
> checked. Then when you install XP choose NTFS. (This gets around an XP
> failing.)

What "failing" is that? I've always installed XP straight onto an NTFS
partition that XP setup has formatted from scratch and never had any
problem.

[David]

John Seeliger wrote:

> I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.

You might be better off to download RedHat 9 instead of using 7.1
since it is about 2yrs old.

--
Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with The Linux Counter. [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]
Slackware 9.0 Kernel 2.4.22 i686 (GCC) 3.3
Uptime: 3 days, 21:15, 1 user, load average: 2.42, 2.60, 2.11

[Ed Light]

"Gordon Burgess-Parker" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:biodku$bl316$1@ID-108938.news.uni-berlin.de...

>
> "Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
> news:vkvcdgocge6m13@corp.supernews.com...

> > When you make the partition for XP make it a fat32 with align for ntfs
> > checked. Then when you install XP choose NTFS. (This gets around an XP
> > failing.)

>
> What "failing" is that? I've always installed XP straight onto an NTFS
> partition that XP setup has formatted from scratch and never had any
> problem.
>

I don't honestly remember.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

[blackgold]

"David" <thunderbolt01@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:4SO3b.301553$uu5.64815@sccrnsc04...

> John Seeliger wrote:

> > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation

7.1.

>
> You might be better off to download RedHat 9 instead of using 7.1
> since it is about 2yrs old.
>
> --
> Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.

Confucius said no such thing.

Thomas Jefferson said: He who play with pussy eventually falls into the well

> Registered with The Linux Counter. [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]
> Slackware 9.0 Kernel 2.4.22 i686 (GCC) 3.3
> Uptime: 3 days, 21:15, 1 user, load average: 2.42, 2.60, 2.11

..

>

[Michael C.]

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:53:27 -0500, John Seeliger <jseelige@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.
> I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should I
> partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?
>

[snip]

> Norcent 16x DVD
> Pine CD-RW
> Maxtor 40 GB 7200 rpm
>

XP needs at least some real estate at the beginning of the drive. I'm
used to W2k which requires 2G for the install, but it doesn't have to
install at the beginning of the drive (it does need to install it's
boot-loader at the beginning though.)

It may cause less trouble if you may repartition later to install XP in
the first primary partition, 3 to 6 Gig depending on how much software
you plan on installing, and FAT32/NTFS whichever is your preference.

Create an extended partition that uses the rest of your disk.

You may want a separate partition for your XP swap, if so make it next.
If you do set up a partition for swap leave it, as Windows tends to get
cranky about a missing swap file.

If you're going to be burning CDs, you'll probably want at least 2
partitions of at least 750M or so, and should probably make them fat32
so you can use XP and/or Linux to build/burn your CDs.

You may want to create a partition just for sharing data between XP and
Linux. It should be fat32 if you do.

You'll also need an ext2/ext3 partition for your root (I don't know if
RH 7.1 supports ext3, if it doesn't then I'd upgrade.)

A swap partition.

A home partition (optional but highly recommended ext2/ext3/reiserfs)

All partitions after XP's (optional?) swap partition can be any order.
My preference is to put the system partitions first, then data
partitions. If you have XP I'd recommend installing it first, creating
it's partitions using it's own tools, and remember to feed it
appropriate sizes. Create all NTFS/FAT32 partitions at this time, and
do NOT create partitions that will be changed to Linux at this time just
leave unpartitioned space.

While they do have tools that may/may not work to change partition
sizes, the correct way is to plan ahead.

Remember to keep a Linux boot disk in case XP overwrites the MBR.

GL & HTH,

Michael C.
--
[email]mcsuper5@usol.com[/email] [url]http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/[/url]
Registered Linux User #303915 [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]

[Michael C.]

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:04:04 -0700, Ed Light <nobody@nobody.there> wrote:

> You can use bootitng later to shrink the Linux partition and create one for
> XP, manage the boots, and image them too.
>

Why would he want to shrink a partition that he hasn't created yet?
Just make it the right size to start. Lilo/grub are more than adequate
for managing the boots, though with a small amount of extra work XP's
boot loader will work as well.

Michael C.
--
[email]mcsuper5@usol.com[/email] [url]http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/[/url]
Registered Linux User #303915 [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]

[gary]

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:53:27 -0500, John Seeliger wrote:

> I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.
> I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should I
> partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?

Install away and add a second hard drive later for your WinXP
installation. You will probably need to re-install Grub/Lilo, as the
Windows bootloader will overwrite your current bootloader. You would be
better off going for RH9 as it will have better driver support, the
2.4.xx kernel, and you will be able to read your NTFS partitions. Don't
mess about with creating vfat partitions to swap files between the OSs,
use a 256Mb USB Solid Disk drive.
Enjoy
Gary

[Michael C.]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:16:15 GMT, gary <gary@garysbox.lan> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:53:27 -0500, John Seeliger wrote:
>

> > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.
> > I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should I
> > partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?

>
> Install away and add a second hard drive later for your WinXP
> installation. You will probably need to re-install Grub/Lilo, as the
> Windows bootloader will overwrite your current bootloader. You would be
> better off going for RH9 as it will have better driver support, the
> 2.4.xx kernel, and you will be able to read your NTFS partitions. Don't
> mess about with creating vfat partitions to swap files between the OSs,
> use a 256Mb USB Solid Disk drive.
> Enjoy
> Gary

XP requires that it's boot files at least be on a primary partition on
the first hard drive. You could change the primary to secondary and add
the new drive as primary, though you'd have to remember to correct your
/etc/fstab and /etc/lilo.conf. He really didn't sound like he was
interested in buying more hardware though.

Michael C.
--
[email]mcsuper5@usol.com[/email] [url]http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/[/url]
Registered Linux User #303915 [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]

[tim kettring]

OK , but the FEDS said " He who play with MS-blaster worm , eventually
sit in jail " Ha , Ha , ha !!!

"blackgold" <blackgold@yippee.com> wrote in message news:<biovki$ktf$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>...

> "David" <thunderbolt01@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:4SO3b.301553$uu5.64815@sccrnsc04...

> > John Seeliger wrote:

> > > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation

> 7.1.

> >
> > You might be better off to download RedHat 9 instead of using 7.1
> > since it is about 2yrs old.
> >
> > --
> > Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.

>
> Confucius said no such thing.
>
> Thomas Jefferson said: He who play with pussy eventually falls into the well
>

> > Registered with The Linux Counter. [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]
> > Slackware 9.0 Kernel 2.4.22 i686 (GCC) 3.3
> > Uptime: 3 days, 21:15, 1 user, load average: 2.42, 2.60, 2.11

>
> .

> >

[John Seeliger]

"David" <thunderbolt01@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:4SO3b.301553$uu5.64815@sccrnsc04...

> John Seeliger wrote:

> > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation

7.1.

>
> You might be better off to download RedHat 9 instead of using 7.1
> since it is about 2yrs old.

I will consider that but I only have dial-up. If I were to install 7.1
would it be extremely difficult to reinstall 9 later?

I got this OS off the dollar rack at Staples.

[John Seeliger]

"Michael C." <mcsuper5@usol.com> wrote in message
news:biptpb$buana$1@ID-169517.news.uni-berlin.de...

> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:16:15 GMT, gary <gary@garysbox.lan> wrote:

> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:53:27 -0500, John Seeliger wrote:
> >

> > > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation

7.1.

> > > I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should

I

> > > partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?

> >
> > Install away and add a second hard drive later for your WinXP
> > installation. You will probably need to re-install Grub/Lilo, as the
> > Windows bootloader will overwrite your current bootloader. You would be
> > better off going for RH9 as it will have better driver support, the
> > 2.4.xx kernel, and you will be able to read your NTFS partitions. Don't
> > mess about with creating vfat partitions to swap files between the OSs,
> > use a 256Mb USB Solid Disk drive.
> > Enjoy
> > Gary

>
> XP requires that it's boot files at least be on a primary partition on
> the first hard drive. You could change the primary to secondary and add
> the new drive as primary, though you'd have to remember to correct your
> /etc/fstab and /etc/lilo.conf. He really didn't sound like he was
> interested in buying more hardware though.

It would be preferable to not have to buy another HD. I do have another
Maxtor 40 GB but was planning on putting that in a Firewire enclosure.

[John Seeliger]

"Michael C." <mcsuper5@usol.com> wrote in message
news:bipj6k$b0ssa$1@ID-169517.news.uni-berlin.de...

> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:53:27 -0500, John Seeliger <jseelige@yahoo.com>

wrote:

> > I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation

7.1.

> > I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should

I

> > partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?
> >

> [snip]

> > Norcent 16x DVD
> > Pine CD-RW
> > Maxtor 40 GB 7200 rpm
> >

>
> XP needs at least some real estate at the beginning of the drive. I'm
> used to W2k which requires 2G for the install, but it doesn't have to
> install at the beginning of the drive (it does need to install it's
> boot-loader at the beginning though.)
>
> It may cause less trouble if you may repartition later to install XP in
> the first primary partition, 3 to 6 Gig depending on how much software
> you plan on installing, and FAT32/NTFS whichever is your preference.
>
> Create an extended partition that uses the rest of your disk.
>
> You may want a separate partition for your XP swap, if so make it next.
> If you do set up a partition for swap leave it, as Windows tends to get
> cranky about a missing swap file.
>
> If you're going to be burning CDs, you'll probably want at least 2
> partitions of at least 750M or so, and should probably make them fat32
> so you can use XP and/or Linux to build/burn your CDs.
>
> You may want to create a partition just for sharing data between XP and
> Linux. It should be fat32 if you do.
>
> You'll also need an ext2/ext3 partition for your root (I don't know if
> RH 7.1 supports ext3, if it doesn't then I'd upgrade.)
>
> A swap partition.
>
> A home partition (optional but highly recommended ext2/ext3/reiserfs)
>
> All partitions after XP's (optional?) swap partition can be any order.
> My preference is to put the system partitions first, then data
> partitions. If you have XP I'd recommend installing it first, creating
> it's partitions using it's own tools, and remember to feed it
> appropriate sizes. Create all NTFS/FAT32 partitions at this time, and
> do NOT create partitions that will be changed to Linux at this time just
> leave unpartitioned space.
>
> While they do have tools that may/may not work to change partition
> sizes, the correct way is to plan ahead.
>
> Remember to keep a Linux boot disk in case XP overwrites the MBR.

Thanks for the info. Guess I should have gotten a FD at the time I got the
other components, but they are pretty inexpensive.

So, I need:

1. first primary partition 3 to 6 GB
2. extended partition
3. XP swap partitition
4. CD partition 750 MB
5. CD partition 750 MB
6. Data sharing partition for XP and Linux that is fat32
7. ext2/ext3 partition for your root
8. Linux swap partition
9. home partition

Any idea on how big to make 3,7,8? The installation guide says to make the
swap partition double the size of the RAM (which would be 512 MB in my
case), but not to let it exceed 128 MB. I would like partition 2 above to
at least 20 GB as one possible application will be capturing DV from my
mom's camcorder, and the AVI is about 200 MB/minute (once converted to
MPEG-1, it is more like 10 MB/minute).

All Linux partitions should be fat32 but XP can be either NTFS or fat32?

I will have to look at getting XP soon and might take your advice to do it
first.

>
> GL & HTH,

Thanks.
-John

[Ed Light]

"Michael C." <mcsuper5@usol.com> wrote

> XP needs at least some real estate at the beginning of the drive.

It doesn't when running under bootitng with limit primaries inactive. I can
paste or move an XP partition to the end of the drive and it boots. It will
boot from the slave too.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

[~misfit~]

"John Seeliger" <jseelige@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bioavp$bpdv1$1@ID-146094.news.uni-berlin.de...

> I just built a PC and have a copy of Red Hat Linux Deluxe Workstation 7.1.
> I am planning at some point in the future to put XP on it. How should I
> partition it to do it properly, so it won't have to be redone later?
>
> Linkworld 300W Case
> ECS K7S5A Pro
> AMD Athlon 2000+
> Copper Cooler
> Mushkin PC 2100 DDR 256 MB
> Kaser AGP
> Inland Firewire
> Norcent 16x DVD
> Pine CD-RW
> Maxtor 40 GB 7200 rpm

Not exactly what you asked but, if it's at all possible, get XP on the drive
first. It makes things a lot easier. (Or at least it did for me with my 20GB
HDD and Mandrake 7.1)

Decide how much space you want for Windows and partition and format
accordingly. I then put a seperate partition for XP's pagefile. Depending on
your RAM, inteneded use etc. between 500MB and 1GB for swapfile. I use NTFS
for the XP partition and FAT32 for the pagefile as FAT32 is faster but
slightly less secure than NTFS. That's not really a problem for a pagefile
and, depending on your machine's specs, can make an appreciable difference.

Size the partitions for Windows and Linux depending on what is going to be
your primary OS.
--
~misfit~



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system ([url]http://www.grisoft.com[/url]).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

[Michael C.]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:53:57 -0500, John Seeliger <jseelige@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

> Thanks for the info. Guess I should have gotten a FD at the time I got the
> other components, but they are pretty inexpensive.
>
> So, I need:
>
> 1. first primary partition 3 to 6 GB
> 2. extended partition
> 3. XP swap partitition
> 4. CD partition 750 MB
> 5. CD partition 750 MB
> 6. Data sharing partition for XP and Linux that is fat32
> 7. ext2/ext3 partition for your root
> 8. Linux swap partition
> 9. home partition
>
> Any idea on how big to make 3,7,8? The installation guide says to make the
> swap partition double the size of the RAM (which would be 512 MB in my
> case), but not to let it exceed 128 MB. I would like partition 2 above to

You don't store data in an extended partition, you store logical
partitions. Generally your extended partition follows your primary
partition and uses the rest of the disk. The logical partitions
(3,4,5,6,7,8,9) would all be inside of the extended partition (2).

If you were to settle with these partitions, you'd make the 6th
partition 20G+.

> at least 20 GB as one possible application will be capturing DV from my
> mom's camcorder, and the AVI is about 200 MB/minute (once converted to
> MPEG-1, it is more like 10 MB/minute).

I'd make XP swap about twice memory, but I used w2k not XP, and I really
didn't monitor swap usage. I never crashed due to lack of swap space,
but I don't know for sure how much I actually used.

Linux swap I'd go with about 1.5 times memory, again I don't monitor it.

For your root 3G should be more than sufficient for a full install and
space for your logs, mail, etc to grow. YMMV.

>
> All Linux partitions should be fat32 but XP can be either NTFS or fat32?

Linux partitions should preferably be ext2/ext3/reiser etc, but
partitions that you may want to write to in Linux or Windows should be
FAT/FAT32 as both understand it.

You generally shouldn't be modifying XP's system files with Linux, but if
you want to, install on FAT32. NTFS has more advanced features including
ACLs, encryption (optional), compression (optional), junctions (supported
though not implemented in W2k, and I assume that holds true for XP,) use
it if you want security, or want to learn.

HTH,

Michael C.
--
[email]mcsuper5@usol.com[/email] [url]http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/[/url]
Registered Linux User #303915 [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]

[Michael C.]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:12:53 +1200,
~misfit~ <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote:

>

[snip]

> your RAM, inteneded use etc. between 500MB and 1GB for swapfile. I use NTFS
> for the XP partition and FAT32 for the pagefile as FAT32 is faster but
> slightly less secure than NTFS. That's not really a problem for a pagefile
> and, depending on your machine's specs, can make an appreciable difference.
>

While I'd assume FAT32 is faster, it has NO security, and a pagefile can
be a significant security risk. I don't recall if it can be exploited
over the net or not, you may need physical access to the computer, I
don't recall.

Assuming you aren't running a full time server, run a firewall, and need
to squeeze every last drop of speed out of the machine, I wouldn't worry
about it too much, just realize it could be a risk.

I haven't read about this in probably close to 2 years, you could try a
W2K/XP group for more info.

Michael C.
--
[email]mcsuper5@usol.com[/email] [url]http://mcsuper5.freeshell.org/[/url]
Registered Linux User #303915 [url]http://counter.li.org/[/url]

[DougZ]

~misfit~ wrote:

> "John Seeliger" <jseelige@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bioavp$bpdv1$1@ID-146094.news.uni-berlin.de...
>

<snip>

> Decide how much space you want for Windows and partition and format
> accordingly. I then put a seperate partition for XP's pagefile. Depending on
> your RAM, inteneded use etc. between 500MB and 1GB for swapfile. I use NTFS
> for the XP partition and FAT32 for the pagefile as FAT32 is faster but
> slightly less secure than NTFS. That's not really a problem for a pagefile
> and, depending on your machine's specs, can make an appreciable difference.
>
> Size the partitions for Windows and Linux depending on what is going to be
> your primary OS.
> --

<snip>
All good advice. For super-high security, put
pagefiles on NTFS, but you sacrifice a tiny
bit of performance for security that may not
be needed in normal usage.

Old advice was to have larger Allocation Units
(Clusters) for page files. Disk caching has
changed that. It is wise to ensure that the
Allocation Unit is set to 4K (page size) when
formatting the pagefile partition so as to
minimize buffering. (This is the default, but
it pays to check.)

Biggest performance contiributors -
- Pagefile size min = pagefile size max
in order to stop file shrinkage & growth
- Pagefile size min = 1.5 times physical
memory. If you will be manipulating
large images, etc., increase
- Pagefile on separate disk, if possible
- Pagefile on separate partition, if at
all possible, in order to reduce file
fragementation and facilitate file
defragmentation.

Pagefile optimization -
[url]http://x220.win2ktest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=602[/url]
[url]http://www.petri.co.il/pagefile_optimization.htm[/url]

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

Michael C. wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:12:53 +1200,
> ~misfit~ <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>

>>

>
> [snip]
>

>> your RAM, inteneded use etc. between 500MB and 1GB for swapfile. I use NTFS
>> for the XP partition and FAT32 for the pagefile as FAT32 is faster but
>> slightly less secure than NTFS. That's not really a problem for a pagefile
>> and, depending on your machine's specs, can make an appreciable difference.
>>

>
> While I'd assume FAT32 is faster, it has NO security, and a pagefile can
> be a significant security risk. I don't recall if it can be exploited
> over the net or not, you may need physical access to the computer, I
> don't recall.

No filesystem is secure (except the encrypted filesystems) if you have
physical access. An appropriate Linux kernel can read *ALL* of them,
including NTFS, from a boot floppy or boot CD.

What FAT32 lacks that NTFS nad ext2 or ext3 have (as the most common
other filesystems for Windows and Linux), is a sense of file multiple
different file owners and permissions when the system is up and running.

> Assuming you aren't running a full time server, run a firewall, and need
> to squeeze every last drop of speed out of the machine, I wouldn't worry
> about it too much, just realize it could be a risk.
>
> I haven't read about this in probably close to 2 years, you could try a
> W2K/XP group for more info.

The big advantage to FAT32 these days is being able to read *and write*
to it from a Linux, UNIX, or even MacOS kernel as well as from Windows.