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setup maker for mac? - Mac Programming

hi, is there a (free) tool to make installations for a mac? I only need to copy some Files (mainly a Flash Projector File and a Jar File) onto the system and place some shortcuts on the Desktop/Startmenu. I´ve never worked with a Mac and therefore have no clue of what to do. Hope somebody can help. Oh, and this should work on OS X and older versions. Thanx, David....

  1. #1

    Default setup maker for mac?

    hi,

    is there a (free) tool to make installations for a mac?
    I only need to copy some Files (mainly a Flash Projector File and a Jar
    File) onto the system and place some shortcuts on the Desktop/Startmenu.

    I´ve never worked with a Mac and therefore have no clue of what to do.
    Hope somebody can help.

    Oh, and this should work on OS X and older versions.

    Thanx, David.


    David Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <boqegn$855$03$t-online.com>, "David" <org>
    wrote:
     

    Well, you have some learning to do, this is clear.

    You should never use an installer unless you need specific files to go
    into specific places. For example, if you absolutely must have something
    in /Library/Application Support/Whatever/ to run, then you could
    consider using an installer. If you just have an app, don't! Users are
    smart enough to know how to copy apps, and your app should execute
    correctly from wherever the user chooses to put it. Even if you need
    specific files installed, normally it's better to keep those files in
    your app and then have your app copy them to wherever they need to go.

    *If* you use an installer, which you shouldn't, then you should *not* be
    making aliases (Macs don't have shortcuts) or putting things in the Dock
    (Macs don't have a Start menu either). The user is smart enough to know
    how to do that if he wants to. Basically do enough to make your app work
    (and it should work as-is without installation) and let the user take
    care of customization on his own. Most Mac users absolutely hate the
    standard Windows installer behavior of filling everything with shortcuts
    so you absolutely can't miss the program you just installed.

    Somebody else will probably point you to a free installer tool if you
    decide you need one, but as far as I can tell you don't, so you really
    shouldn't use one.
    Michael Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    > Well, you have some learning to do, this is clear.

    Yep, sure do :-)
     

    seems clear, wouldn´t really do it in windows either (except when I need
    Shortcuts to be placed)
     

    I hope so, because of this, I wanted to place something like shortcuts, so
    that users that don´t know what they´re doing, still can start the app.

    thanks for your advice,
    If anybody else has another opinion or some other advice, please tell


    David Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <boqsvq$rev$01$t-online.com>, "David" <org>
    wrote:
     
    >
    > I hope so, because of this, I wanted to place something like shortcuts, so
    > that users that don´t know what they´re doing, still can start the app.
    >
    > thanks for your advice,
    > If anybody else has another opinion or some other advice, please tell[/ref]

    I concur with the suggestion about "shortcuts". On a Mac this would
    presumably mean something like adding the application to the dock, or
    putting an alias on the desktop. I hate it when installers do that.

    --
    Tom "Tom" Harrington
    Macaroni, Automated System Maintenance for Mac OS X.
    Version 1.4: Best cleanup yet, gets files other tools miss.
    See http://www.atomicbird.com/
    Tom Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <boqsvq$rev$01$t-online.com>, "David" <org>
    wrote:
     
    >
    > I hope so, because of this, I wanted to place something like shortcuts, so
    > that users that don´t know what they´re doing, still can start the app.[/ref]

    If the user is so clueless that they can't even start an application
    that's not in the Dock, then they certainly won't be able to
    successfully run your installer. If they can run an installer, they'll
    be able to run your app, and it's easier to just double-click an
    application than it is to open an installer, go through N steps to
    install the app, then finally run the app.

    Macs are, of course, a different environment with different
    expectations. If you don't have a good reason for an installer, like
    needing to install system-level components, most users won't like having
    to run one. Even MS Office for the Mac doesn't have an installer
    (afaik...), you just drag the apps to your hard drive and they work.

    Ok, I think you have the idea now, so I'll stop. :)
    Michael Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    David wrote: 
    >
    >
    > Yep, sure do :-)
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    > seems clear, wouldn´t really do it in windows either (except when I need
    > Shortcuts to be placed)
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    > I hope so, because of this, I wanted to place something like shortcuts,so
    > that users that don´t know what they´re doing, still can start the app.
    >
    > thanks for your advice,
    > If anybody else has another opinion or some other advice, please tell
    > [/ref]
    Perfectly agreed with the previous suggestions.

    The most welcome on the mac is not a windows-like wizard or
    installshield (sic!). The most welcome is a message: "Drag the icon to
    your harddrive to install". The best and award winning apps on the mac
    (os x) are done this way. No aliases (shortcuts in windows terminology)
    no entries in the dock (start menu in windows terminology). None of this
    windows style bull. So freakin' simple.

    When the user drags the app to his harddrive, she will know where, even
    if it is the desktop ;-)

    Patryk Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    Sorry, don't agree with any of the above. It depends entirely on your
    target audience. Macs are supposed to be "user-friendly" to even the
    most computer-illiterate. To contrast worst-case scenarios, I'd rather
    give a smart user the option to trash a desktop icon than require a
    new user to try to drill down through the file system to find an
    application.

    Steve...

     
    > >[/ref][/ref]
    Steve Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    David <org> wrote:

    [..] 
    >
    > I hope so, because of this, I wanted to place something like shortcuts, so
    > that users that don´t know what they´re doing, still can start the app.
    >
    > thanks for your advice,
    > If anybody else has another opinion or some other advice, please tell[/ref]

    One other thing you might want to consider:

    Your app could, when first run, ask the user if they want it to put an
    alias on the desktop or in the startup folder, or what-have-you. This
    would be like having the app install itself. Add this functionality to
    the preferences window, too, so the user can do this any time they want
    to.

    You could implement this within the app itself, or as another program or
    script that's in the main app's bundle.

    HTH.
    Paul Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    Argh, Steve. I was almost convinced not to do an isntaller and instead to
    just put everything in an compressed archiv (do mac´s know rar or similar?),
    and now you totaly state my point of view.
    I did precisely think about that. What if...? I mean you never know how dumb
    a user might be.
    In germany we call these people DAU´s (in eng. dumbest user to account for).
    Well, I guess still gonna go the archiv way. Which should be enough cause
    there is nothing that would need a setup.

    I still could use some pointers on the archiv though. What should I use for
    that?

    Thanx to all so far, David


    David Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <google.com>,
    com.au (Steve Luckett) wrote:
     

    How is this hypothetical (l)user going to actually find and run your
    installer in the first place?

    If he can drill down and find your installer, he can drill down and find
    your app. Once he finds your app, I remain confident that even the
    dumbest user who can accomplish that will know how to drag it to the
    Dock so he can use it again.
     

    Since for most programs, smart users are much more likely to be part of
    the target audience than dumb users, and a dumb user can figure things
    out later, and a smart user is likely to be instantly alienated by
    stupid installer behavior that does things he doesn't want, I say it's
    better to force the clueless ones to learn a few basics.
    Michael Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Michael Ash wrote:
     
    >
    > How is this hypothetical (l)user going to actually find and run your
    > installer in the first place?
    >
    > If he can drill down and find your installer, he can drill down and find
    > your app. Once he finds your app, I remain confident that even the
    > dumbest user who can accomplish that will know how to drag it to the
    > Dock so he can use it again.[/ref]

    Absolutely. And if the entire install process is just copying over a
    folder/bundle then they aren't going to hide it deep in the bowels of the
    file system.

    Fred

    Frederick Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <bosshv$mod$08$t-online.com>, org says... 

    I'm with the majority view here - if you don't need an installer don't
    use one!
     

    They bought a Mac so they can't be that dumb ;)
     

    Seriously, if they're too dumb to drag an App to a folder they shouldn't
    be using a wrist watch let alone a computer. You can even give them
    clues like a background image or empty folder labelled 'Drag the damn
    file to wherever you like to install it'
     

    Macs (or at least stuffit) can do rar, zip, sit, etc but I think
    compressed disk images are the most Mac way to package things. Use Disk
    Copy* to make them.


    * Can't remember if it's been munged into Disk Utility or vice versa in
    Panther.
    James Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    > They bought a Mac so they can't be that dumb ;)

    I was already waiting for somebody to say that :-)
     

    thanx, I´m gonna go with that than


    David Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <google.com>,
    com.au (Steve Luckett) wrote:
     

    A good installer in that case contains a check box "put an alias on the
    desktop" or "put [my app]'s icon in the dock" so those who don't want it
    can turn it off, but DAUs can just leave it checked.

    *never* automatically put stuff on the desktop. Apple took a severe
    beating for making HyperCard create an "update to QuickTime Pro" file on
    the desktop each time it was launched.

    Cheers,
    -- Uli
    Uli Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <t-online.com>,
    Uli Kusterer <de> wrote:
     

    I wouldn't even call this a 'good' installer, but rather one that is not
    the absolute worst. When I download a program, I don't want to spend
    even thirty seconds running an installer, clicking "I Agree" to four
    pages of legal-mumbo jumbo, and having to carefully read every single
    checkbox presented to me just in case it's going to end up doing
    something I don't want.
    Michael Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    Steve Luckett wrote: 

    The whole drilling should be limited to the "Applications" folder or
    whichever place the user put the app himself to.

    Not too difficult, huh?

    Patryk Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    James Weatherley wrote:
    [...] 

    It is now in disk utility.

    Patryk Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <google.com>,
    com.au (Steve Luckett) wrote:
     

    Please stop developing on the Mac. Thank you.
    Doc Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    In article <3fb22cd5$inet.com.pl>,
    "Patryk 'Silver Dream !' ?ogiewa" <remove.it.pl> wrote:
     
    >
    > It is now in disk utility.[/ref]

    It doesn't matter; you should be using hdiutil in a build phase to take
    care of it for you.
    Doc Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: setup maker for mac?

    dans l'article supernews.com, Doc
    O'Leary à com a écrit le 12/11/03 16:54:
     
    >
    > Please stop developing on the Mac. Thank you.[/ref]

    Or maybe you, Doc, should stop listening to this list.

    No one needs intolerant people like you, anywhere.

    David, I'm sure all other programmers on this list are very happy that you
    joined the Mac community.

    Eric

    Eric Guest

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