Simultaneous SQL queries to Access

[Jim Bowman]

In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
store user data from an Authorware training piece, I ran
across this article:

"For performance and reliability reasons, it is strongly
recommended that you use a client-server database engine
for the deployment of data-driven web applications that
require high-demand access from more than approximately
10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any OLE DB
compliant data source, it has been extensively tested and
is designed to work with client server databases such as
Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.

ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft Access or
Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although some
examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared file"
database, it is recommended that these types of database
engines be used only for development purposes or limited
deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may not be
as well suited as client-server databases for very high-
demand, production-quality web applications."

My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data through
an asp page that's connected to an Access database. The
data in each user record is small: about 25 two-digit
numbers. There may, however, be a significant
number of users. Does the above article mean that asp
and Access are not adequate as a database for commercial
computer-based training?

Thanks.

Jim Bowman

[Ken Schaefer]

Well written code (that minimises load on the database) can allow a fairly
substantial number of concurrent users to run off an Access database (say,
~20-25). All operations are serialised though the Jet OLEDB Provider (or
ODBC Driver). However if you require greater performance, or you need a more
robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from transaction logs etc), you
need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL Server).

Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of SQL Server)? It's free
in a lot of cases.

Cheers
Ken

"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
: store user data from an Authorware training piece, I ran
: across this article:
:
: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is strongly
: recommended that you use a client-server database engine
: for the deployment of data-driven web applications that
: require high-demand access from more than approximately
: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any OLE DB
: compliant data source, it has been extensively tested and
: is designed to work with client server databases such as
: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
:
: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft Access or
: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although some
: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared file"
: database, it is recommended that these types of database
: engines be used only for development purposes or limited
: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may not be
: as well suited as client-server databases for very high-
: demand, production-quality web applications."
:
: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data through
: an asp page that's connected to an Access database. The
: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-digit
: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
: number of users. Does the above article mean that asp
: and Access are not adequate as a database for commercial
: computer-based training?
:
: Thanks.
:
: Jim Bowman

[Jim Bowman]

Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.

Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users and
that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point in
time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
return an error and then continue to function? Or does
Access crash?

If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
training piece so that if the asp page returns an error,
the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries again.
Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times before
giving up and providing a "connection failed" message to
the user. What do you think?

Jim

>-----Original Message-----
>Well written code (that minimises load on the database)

can allow a fairly

>substantial number of concurrent users to run off an

Access database (say,

>~20-25). All operations are serialised though the Jet

OLEDB Provider (or

>ODBC Driver). However if you require greater

performance, or you need a more

>robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from

transaction logs etc), you

>need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL Server).
>
>Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of SQL

Server)? It's free

>in a lot of cases.
>
>Cheers
>Ken
>
>"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

in message

>news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
>: store user data from an Authorware training piece, I

ran

>: across this article:
>:
>: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is

strongly

>: recommended that you use a client-server database

engine

>: for the deployment of data-driven web applications that
>: require high-demand access from more than approximately
>: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any OLE

DB

>: compliant data source, it has been extensively tested

and

>: is designed to work with client server databases such

as

>: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
>:
>: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft Access or
>: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although some
>: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared file"
>: database, it is recommended that these types of

database

>: engines be used only for development purposes or

limited

>: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may not be
>: as well suited as client-server databases for very

high-

>: demand, production-quality web applications."
>:
>: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data through
>: an asp page that's connected to an Access database. The
>: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-digit
>: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
>: number of users. Does the above article mean that asp
>: and Access are not adequate as a database for

commercial

>: computer-based training?
>:
>: Thanks.
>:
>: Jim Bowman
>
>
>.
>

[Ken Schaefer]

Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on how effeciently your
code is organised, start encountering blocking. You will be unable to open
connections, or users already in the database will have locks that block new
users.

You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to open a connection, see if
there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of times before returning
an error to the user.

Cheers
Ken

"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
:
: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users and
: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point in
: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
: return an error and then continue to function? Or does
: Access crash?
:
: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
: training piece so that if the asp page returns an error,
: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries again.
: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times before
: giving up and providing a "connection failed" message to
: the user. What do you think?
:
: Jim
:
: >-----Original Message-----
: >Well written code (that minimises load on the database)
: can allow a fairly
: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off an
: Access database (say,
: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the Jet
: OLEDB Provider (or
: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
: performance, or you need a more
: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
: transaction logs etc), you
: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL Server).
: >
: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of SQL
: Server)? It's free
: >in a lot of cases.
: >
: >Cheers
: >Ken
: >
: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
: in message
: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
: >: store user data from an Authorware training piece, I
: ran
: >: across this article:
: >:
: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
: strongly
: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
: engine
: >: for the deployment of data-driven web applications that
: >: require high-demand access from more than approximately
: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any OLE
: DB
: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively tested
: and
: >: is designed to work with client server databases such
: as
: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
: >:
: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft Access or
: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although some
: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared file"
: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
: database
: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
: limited
: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may not be
: >: as well suited as client-server databases for very
: high-
: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
: >:
: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data through
: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access database. The
: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-digit
: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
: >: number of users. Does the above article mean that asp
: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
: commercial
: >: computer-based training?
: >:
: >: Thanks.
: >:
: >: Jim Bowman
: >
: >
: >.
: >

When you say "to a point", you sound cautious about this
approach. What are your concerns?

Thanks.

Jim

>-----Original Message-----
>Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on

how effeciently your

>code is organised, start encountering blocking. You will

be unable to open

>connections, or users already in the database will have

locks that block new

>users.
>
>You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to open a

connection, see if

>there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of

times before returning

>an error to the user.
>
>Cheers
>Ken
>
>"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
>news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
>:
>: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users and
>: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point in
>: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
>: return an error and then continue to function? Or does
>: Access crash?
>:
>: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
>: training piece so that if the asp page returns an

error,

>: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries

again.

>: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times

before

>: giving up and providing a "connection failed" message

to

>: the user. What do you think?
>:
>: Jim
>:
>: >-----Original Message-----
>: >Well written code (that minimises load on the

database)

>: can allow a fairly
>: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off an
>: Access database (say,
>: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the Jet
>: OLEDB Provider (or
>: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
>: performance, or you need a more
>: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
>: transaction logs etc), you
>: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL

Server).

>: >
>: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of

SQL

>: Server)? It's free
>: >in a lot of cases.
>: >
>: >Cheers
>: >Ken
>: >
>: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote

>: in message
>: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
>: >: store user data from an Authorware training piece, I
>: ran
>: >: across this article:
>: >:
>: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
>: strongly
>: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
>: engine
>: >: for the deployment of data-driven web applications

that

>: >: require high-demand access from more than

approximately

>: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any

OLE

>: DB
>: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively

tested

>: and
>: >: is designed to work with client server databases

such

>: as
>: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
>: >:
>: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft

Access or

>: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although

some

>: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared

file"

>: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
>: database
>: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
>: limited
>: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may

not be

>: >: as well suited as client-server databases for very
>: high-
>: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
>: >:
>: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data

through

>: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access database.

The

>: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-

digit

>: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
>: >: number of users. Does the above article mean that

asp

>: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
>: commercial
>: >: computer-based training?
>: >:
>: >: Thanks.
>: >:
>: >: Jim Bowman
>: >
>: >
>: >.
>: >
>
>
>.
>

[Ken Schaefer]

Because, even that will start to fail after a while as you increase the
number of users (e.g. if you loop 5 times, it maybe that each of the 5 times
you won't be able to get a connection).

Cheers
Ken

<anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3fe401c42af0$89743af0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: When you say "to a point", you sound cautious about this
: approach. What are your concerns?
:
: Thanks.
:
: Jim
:
: >-----Original Message-----
: >Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on
: how effeciently your
: >code is organised, start encountering blocking. You will
: be unable to open
: >connections, or users already in the database will have
: locks that block new
: >users.
: >
: >You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to open a
: connection, see if
: >there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of
: times before returning
: >an error to the user.
: >
: >Cheers
: >Ken
: >
: >"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
: >news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
: >: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
: >:
: >: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users and
: >: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point in
: >: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
: >: return an error and then continue to function? Or does
: >: Access crash?
: >:
: >: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
: >: training piece so that if the asp page returns an
: error,
: >: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries
: again.
: >: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times
: before
: >: giving up and providing a "connection failed" message
: to
: >: the user. What do you think?
: >:
: >: Jim
: >:
: >: >-----Original Message-----
: >: >Well written code (that minimises load on the
: database)
: >: can allow a fairly
: >: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off an
: >: Access database (say,
: >: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the Jet
: >: OLEDB Provider (or
: >: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
: >: performance, or you need a more
: >: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
: >: transaction logs etc), you
: >: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL
: Server).
: >: >
: >: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of
: SQL
: >: Server)? It's free
: >: >in a lot of cases.
: >: >
: >: >Cheers
: >: >Ken
: >: >
: >: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>
: wrote
: >: in message
: >: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: >: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a way to
: >: >: store user data from an Authorware training piece, I
: >: ran
: >: >: across this article:
: >: >:
: >: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
: >: strongly
: >: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
: >: engine
: >: >: for the deployment of data-driven web applications
: that
: >: >: require high-demand access from more than
: approximately
: >: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any
: OLE
: >: DB
: >: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively
: tested
: >: and
: >: >: is designed to work with client server databases
: such
: >: as
: >: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
: >: >:
: >: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft
: Access or
: >: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources. Although
: some
: >: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared
: file"
: >: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
: >: database
: >: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
: >: limited
: >: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may
: not be
: >: >: as well suited as client-server databases for very
: >: high-
: >: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
: >: >:
: >: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data
: through
: >: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access database.
: The
: >: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-
: digit
: >: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
: >: >: number of users. Does the above article mean that
: asp
: >: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
: >: commercial
: >: >: computer-based training?
: >: >:
: >: >: Thanks.
: >: >:
: >: >: Jim Bowman
: >: >
: >: >
: >: >.
: >: >
: >
: >
: >.
: >

[Jim Bowman]

I think I understand. If the number of users exceeds the
capabilities of Access on a continuting basis, then the
looping delay solves nothing. But if the number of users
exceeds the capabilities of Access temporarily (e.g. a
spike in demand), then the delay approach should work
because it levels the demand. Am I right?

Jim

>-----Original Message-----
>Because, even that will start to fail after a while as

you increase the

>number of users (e.g. if you loop 5 times, it maybe that

each of the 5 times

>you won't be able to get a connection).
>
>Cheers
>Ken
>
><anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>news:3fe401c42af0$89743af0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: When you say "to a point", you sound cautious about

this

>: approach. What are your concerns?
>:
>: Thanks.
>:
>: Jim
>:
>: >-----Original Message-----
>: >Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on
>: how effeciently your
>: >code is organised, start encountering blocking. You

will

>: be unable to open
>: >connections, or users already in the database will

have

>: locks that block new
>: >users.
>: >
>: >You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to

open a

>: connection, see if
>: >there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of
>: times before returning
>: >an error to the user.
>: >
>: >Cheers
>: >Ken
>: >
>: >"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
>: >news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>: >: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
>: >:
>: >: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users

and

>: >: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point

in

>: >: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
>: >: return an error and then continue to function? Or

does

>: >: Access crash?
>: >:
>: >: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
>: >: training piece so that if the asp page returns an
>: error,
>: >: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries
>: again.
>: >: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times
>: before
>: >: giving up and providing a "connection failed"

message

>: to
>: >: the user. What do you think?
>: >:
>: >: Jim
>: >:
>: >: >-----Original Message-----
>: >: >Well written code (that minimises load on the
>: database)
>: >: can allow a fairly
>: >: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off

an

>: >: Access database (say,
>: >: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the

Jet

>: >: OLEDB Provider (or
>: >: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
>: >: performance, or you need a more
>: >: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
>: >: transaction logs etc), you
>: >: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL
>: Server).
>: >: >
>: >: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of
>: SQL
>: >: Server)? It's free
>: >: >in a lot of cases.
>: >: >
>: >: >Cheers
>: >: >Ken
>: >: >
>: >: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>
>: wrote
>: >: in message
>: >: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: >: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a

way to

>: >: >: store user data from an Authorware training

piece, I

>: >: ran
>: >: >: across this article:
>: >: >:
>: >: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
>: >: strongly
>: >: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
>: >: engine
>: >: >: for the deployment of data-driven web

applications

>: that
>: >: >: require high-demand access from more than
>: approximately
>: >: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any
>: OLE
>: >: DB
>: >: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively
>: tested
>: >: and
>: >: >: is designed to work with client server databases
>: such
>: >: as
>: >: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
>: >: >:
>: >: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft
>: Access or
>: >: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources.

Although

>: some
>: >: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared
>: file"
>: >: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
>: >: database
>: >: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
>: >: limited
>: >: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may
>: not be
>: >: >: as well suited as client-server databases for

very

>: >: high-
>: >: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
>: >: >:
>: >: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data
>: through
>: >: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access

database.

>: The
>: >: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-
>: digit
>: >: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
>: >: >: number of users. Does the above article mean

that

>: asp
>: >: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
>: >: commercial
>: >: >: computer-based training?
>: >: >:
>: >: >: Thanks.
>: >: >:
>: >: >: Jim Bowman
>: >: >
>: >: >
>: >: >.
>: >: >
>: >
>: >
>: >.
>: >
>
>
>.
>

[Ken Schaefer]

Bingo. :-)

Cheers
Ken

"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
news:52b701c42cbe$593aca50$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: I think I understand. If the number of users exceeds the
: capabilities of Access on a continuting basis, then the
: looping delay solves nothing. But if the number of users
: exceeds the capabilities of Access temporarily (e.g. a
: spike in demand), then the delay approach should work
: because it levels the demand. Am I right?
:
: Jim
:
: >-----Original Message-----
: >Because, even that will start to fail after a while as
: you increase the
: >number of users (e.g. if you loop 5 times, it maybe that
: each of the 5 times
: >you won't be able to get a connection).
: >
: >Cheers
: >Ken
: >
: ><anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
: >news:3fe401c42af0$89743af0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: >: When you say "to a point", you sound cautious about
: this
: >: approach. What are your concerns?
: >:
: >: Thanks.
: >:
: >: Jim
: >:
: >: >-----Original Message-----
: >: >Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on
: >: how effeciently your
: >: >code is organised, start encountering blocking. You
: will
: >: be unable to open
: >: >connections, or users already in the database will
: have
: >: locks that block new
: >: >users.
: >: >
: >: >You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to
: open a
: >: connection, see if
: >: >there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of
: >: times before returning
: >: >an error to the user.
: >: >
: >: >Cheers
: >: >Ken
: >: >
: >: >"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
: >: >news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
: >: >: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
: >: >:
: >: >: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users
: and
: >: >: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point
: in
: >: >: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
: >: >: return an error and then continue to function? Or
: does
: >: >: Access crash?
: >: >:
: >: >: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
: >: >: training piece so that if the asp page returns an
: >: error,
: >: >: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries
: >: again.
: >: >: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times
: >: before
: >: >: giving up and providing a "connection failed"
: message
: >: to
: >: >: the user. What do you think?
: >: >:
: >: >: Jim
: >: >:
: >: >: >-----Original Message-----
: >: >: >Well written code (that minimises load on the
: >: database)
: >: >: can allow a fairly
: >: >: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off
: an
: >: >: Access database (say,
: >: >: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the
: Jet
: >: >: OLEDB Provider (or
: >: >: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
: >: >: performance, or you need a more
: >: >: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
: >: >: transaction logs etc), you
: >: >: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL
: >: Server).
: >: >: >
: >: >: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of
: >: SQL
: >: >: Server)? It's free
: >: >: >in a lot of cases.
: >: >: >
: >: >: >Cheers
: >: >: >Ken
: >: >: >
: >: >: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>
: >: wrote
: >: >: in message
: >: >: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: >: >: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a
: way to
: >: >: >: store user data from an Authorware training
: piece, I
: >: >: ran
: >: >: >: across this article:
: >: >: >:
: >: >: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
: >: >: strongly
: >: >: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
: >: >: engine
: >: >: >: for the deployment of data-driven web
: applications
: >: that
: >: >: >: require high-demand access from more than
: >: approximately
: >: >: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any
: >: OLE
: >: >: DB
: >: >: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively
: >: tested
: >: >: and
: >: >: >: is designed to work with client server databases
: >: such
: >: >: as
: >: >: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
: >: >: >:
: >: >: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft
: >: Access or
: >: >: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources.
: Although
: >: some
: >: >: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared
: >: file"
: >: >: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
: >: >: database
: >: >: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
: >: >: limited
: >: >: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may
: >: not be
: >: >: >: as well suited as client-server databases for
: very
: >: >: high-
: >: >: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
: >: >: >:
: >: >: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data
: >: through
: >: >: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access
: database.
: >: The
: >: >: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-
: >: digit
: >: >: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
: >: >: >: number of users. Does the above article mean
: that
: >: asp
: >: >: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
: >: >: commercial
: >: >: >: computer-based training?
: >: >: >:
: >: >: >: Thanks.
: >: >: >:
: >: >: >: Jim Bowman
: >: >: >
: >: >: >
: >: >: >.
: >: >: >
: >: >
: >: >
: >: >.
: >: >
: >
: >
: >.
: >

[Ken Schaefer]

Also, if you go down the MSDE path, you can buy SQL Server Developer Edition
(equivalent to SQL Server Enterprise Edition) for US$49.95 - it is only
licenced for development.

This gives you a full set of client tools, reference material etc on the
installation CD (something that MSDE does not). You can then develop your
databases, then detach them, and attach them to your MSDE server,
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/development.asp[/url]

Cheers
Ken

"Ken Schaefer" <kenREMOVE@THISadOpenStatic.com> wrote in message
news:%23eqIj3RLEHA.3204@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
: Bingo. :-)
:
: Cheers
: Ken
:
: "Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
: news:52b701c42cbe$593aca50$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: : I think I understand. If the number of users exceeds the
: : capabilities of Access on a continuting basis, then the
: : looping delay solves nothing. But if the number of users
: : exceeds the capabilities of Access temporarily (e.g. a
: : spike in demand), then the delay approach should work
: : because it levels the demand. Am I right?
: :
: : Jim
: :
: : >-----Original Message-----
: : >Because, even that will start to fail after a while as
: : you increase the
: : >number of users (e.g. if you loop 5 times, it maybe that
: : each of the 5 times
: : >you won't be able to get a connection).
: : >
: : >Cheers
: : >Ken
: : >
: : ><anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
: : >news:3fe401c42af0$89743af0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: : >: When you say "to a point", you sound cautious about
: : this
: : >: approach. What are your concerns?
: : >:
: : >: Thanks.
: : >:
: : >: Jim
: : >:
: : >: >-----Original Message-----
: : >: >Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will, depending on
: : >: how effeciently your
: : >: >code is organised, start encountering blocking. You
: : will
: : >: be unable to open
: : >: >connections, or users already in the database will
: : have
: : >: locks that block new
: : >: >users.
: : >: >
: : >: >You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to
: : open a
: : >: connection, see if
: : >: >there's an error, and if so try again "x" number of
: : >: times before returning
: : >: >an error to the user.
: : >: >
: : >: >Cheers
: : >: >Ken
: : >: >
: : >: >"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
: : >: >news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
: : >: >: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
: : >: >:
: : >: >: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent users
: : and
: : >: >: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some point
: : in
: : >: >: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does Access
: : >: >: return an error and then continue to function? Or
: : does
: : >: >: Access crash?
: : >: >:
: : >: >: If it's the former, suppose I program my Authorware
: : >: >: training piece so that if the asp page returns an
: : >: error,
: : >: >: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then tries
: : >: again.
: : >: >: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5 times
: : >: before
: : >: >: giving up and providing a "connection failed"
: : message
: : >: to
: : >: >: the user. What do you think?
: : >: >:
: : >: >: Jim
: : >: >:
: : >: >: >-----Original Message-----
: : >: >: >Well written code (that minimises load on the
: : >: database)
: : >: >: can allow a fairly
: : >: >: >substantial number of concurrent users to run off
: : an
: : >: >: Access database (say,
: : >: >: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though the
: : Jet
: : >: >: OLEDB Provider (or
: : >: >: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
: : >: >: performance, or you need a more
: : >: >: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
: : >: >: transaction logs etc), you
: : >: >: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like SQL
: : >: Server).
: : >: >: >
: : >: >: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down version of
: : >: SQL
: : >: >: Server)? It's free
: : >: >: >in a lot of cases.
: : >: >: >
: : >: >: >Cheers
: : >: >: >Ken
: : >: >: >
: : >: >: >"Jim Bowman" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>
: : >: wrote
: : >: >: in message
: : >: >: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
: : >: >: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as a
: : way to
: : >: >: >: store user data from an Authorware training
: : piece, I
: : >: >: ran
: : >: >: >: across this article:
: : >: >: >:
: : >: >: >: "For performance and reliability reasons, it is
: : >: >: strongly
: : >: >: >: recommended that you use a client-server database
: : >: >: engine
: : >: >: >: for the deployment of data-driven web
: : applications
: : >: that
: : >: >: >: require high-demand access from more than
: : >: approximately
: : >: >: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works with any
: : >: OLE
: : >: >: DB
: : >: >: >: compliant data source, it has been extensively
: : >: tested
: : >: >: and
: : >: >: >: is designed to work with client server databases
: : >: such
: : >: >: as
: : >: >: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
: : >: >: >:
: : >: >: >: ASP supports shared file databases (Microsoft
: : >: Access or
: : >: >: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources.
: : Although
: : >: some
: : >: >: >: examples in the ASP documentation use a "shared
: : >: file"
: : >: >: >: database, it is recommended that these types of
: : >: >: database
: : >: >: >: engines be used only for development purposes or
: : >: >: limited
: : >: >: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file databases may
: : >: not be
: : >: >: >: as well suited as client-server databases for
: : very
: : >: >: high-
: : >: >: >: demand, production-quality web applications."
: : >: >: >:
: : >: >: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve data
: : >: through
: : >: >: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access
: : database.
: : >: The
: : >: >: >: data in each user record is small: about 25 two-
: : >: digit
: : >: >: >: numbers. There may, however, be a significant
: : >: >: >: number of users. Does the above article mean
: : that
: : >: asp
: : >: >: >: and Access are not adequate as a database for
: : >: >: commercial
: : >: >: >: computer-based training?
: : >: >: >:
: : >: >: >: Thanks.
: : >: >: >:
: : >: >: >: Jim Bowman
: : >: >: >
: : >: >: >
: : >: >: >.
: : >: >: >
: : >: >
: : >: >
: : >: >.
: : >: >
: : >
: : >
: : >.
: : >
:
:

[Jim Bowman]

Thanks for the help Ken

Jim

>-----Original Message-----
>Also, if you go down the MSDE path, you can buy SQL

Server Developer Edition

>(equivalent to SQL Server Enterprise Edition) for

US$49.95 - it is only

>licenced for development.
>
>This gives you a full set of client tools, reference

material etc on the

>installation CD (something that MSDE does not). You can

then develop your

>databases, then detach them, and attach them to your

MSDE server,

>[url]http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/development.asp[/url]
>
>Cheers
>Ken
>
>"Ken Schaefer" <kenREMOVE@THISadOpenStatic.com> wrote in

message

>news:%23eqIj3RLEHA.3204@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>: Bingo. :-)
>:
>: Cheers
>: Ken
>:
>: "Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
>: news:52b701c42cbe$593aca50$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: : I think I understand. If the number of users

exceeds the

>: : capabilities of Access on a continuting basis, then

the

>: : looping delay solves nothing. But if the number of

users

>: : exceeds the capabilities of Access temporarily (e.g.

a

>: : spike in demand), then the delay approach should work
>: : because it levels the demand. Am I right?
>: :
>: : Jim
>: :
>: : >-----Original Message-----
>: : >Because, even that will start to fail after a while

as

>: : you increase the
>: : >number of users (e.g. if you loop 5 times, it maybe

that

>: : each of the 5 times
>: : >you won't be able to get a connection).
>: : >
>: : >Cheers
>: : >Ken
>: : >
>: : ><anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in

message

>: : >news:3fe401c42af0$89743af0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: : >: When you say "to a point", you sound cautious

about

>: : this
>: : >: approach. What are your concerns?
>: : >:
>: : >: Thanks.
>: : >:
>: : >: Jim
>: : >:
>: : >: >-----Original Message-----
>: : >: >Access doesn't "crash" per se. You will,

depending on

>: : >: how effeciently your
>: : >: >code is organised, start encountering blocking.

You

>: : will
>: : >: be unable to open
>: : >: >connections, or users already in the database

will

>: : have
>: : >: locks that block new
>: : >: >users.
>: : >: >
>: : >: >You can, to a point, do what you suggest - try to
>: : open a
>: : >: connection, see if
>: : >: >there's an error, and if so try again "x" number

of

>: : >: times before returning
>: : >: >an error to the user.
>: : >: >
>: : >: >Cheers
>: : >: >Ken
>: : >: >
>: : >: >"Jim Bowman" <james@jbassoc.biz> wrote in message
>: : >: >news:35f401c4294b$99182940$a501280a@phx.gbl...
>: : >: >: Thanks Ken. I will explore MSDE.
>: : >: >:
>: : >: >: Suppose my Access db can handle 20 concurrent

users

>: : and
>: : >: >: that 20 are simultaneously connected at some

point

>: : in
>: : >: >: time. If user No. 21 tries to connect, does

Access

>: : >: >: return an error and then continue to

function? Or

>: : does
>: : >: >: Access crash?
>: : >: >:
>: : >: >: If it's the former, suppose I program my

Authorware

>: : >: >: training piece so that if the asp page returns

an

>: : >: error,
>: : >: >: the training piece waits 3 seconds and then

tries

>: : >: again.
>: : >: >: Maybe it repeats this sequence a total of 5

times

>: : >: before
>: : >: >: giving up and providing a "connection failed"
>: : message
>: : >: to
>: : >: >: the user. What do you think?
>: : >: >:
>: : >: >: Jim
>: : >: >:
>: : >: >: >-----Original Message-----
>: : >: >: >Well written code (that minimises load on the
>: : >: database)
>: : >: >: can allow a fairly
>: : >: >: >substantial number of concurrent users to run

off

>: : an
>: : >: >: Access database (say,
>: : >: >: >~20-25). All operations are serialised though

the

>: : Jet
>: : >: >: OLEDB Provider (or
>: : >: >: >ODBC Driver). However if you require greater
>: : >: >: performance, or you need a more
>: : >: >: >robust DBMS (e.g. the ability to recover from
>: : >: >: transaction logs etc), you
>: : >: >: >need to use a proper Client-Server DB (like

SQL

>: : >: Server).
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >: >Have you considered using MSDE (cut down

version of

>: : >: SQL
>: : >: >: Server)? It's free
>: : >: >: >in a lot of cases.
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >: >Cheers
>: : >: >: >Ken
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >: >"Jim Bowman"

<anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>

>: : >: wrote
>: : >: >: in message
>: : >: >: >news:2c5101c4286d$523d6c80$a301280a@phx.gbl...
>: : >: >: >: In evaluating asp and an Access database as

a

>: : way to
>: : >: >: >: store user data from an Authorware training
>: : piece, I
>: : >: >: ran
>: : >: >: >: across this article:
>: : >: >: >:
>: : >: >: >: "For performance and reliability reasons,

it is

>: : >: >: strongly
>: : >: >: >: recommended that you use a client-server

database

>: : >: >: engine
>: : >: >: >: for the deployment of data-driven web
>: : applications
>: : >: that
>: : >: >: >: require high-demand access from more than
>: : >: approximately
>: : >: >: >: 10 concurrent users. Although ADO works

with any

>: : >: OLE
>: : >: >: DB
>: : >: >: >: compliant data source, it has been

extensively

>: : >: tested
>: : >: >: and
>: : >: >: >: is designed to work with client server

databases

>: : >: such
>: : >: >: as
>: : >: >: >: Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle.
>: : >: >: >:
>: : >: >: >: ASP supports shared file databases

(Microsoft

>: : >: Access or
>: : >: >: >: Microsoft FoxPro) as valid data sources.
>: : Although
>: : >: some
>: : >: >: >: examples in the ASP documentation use

a "shared

>: : >: file"
>: : >: >: >: database, it is recommended that these

types of

>: : >: >: database
>: : >: >: >: engines be used only for development

purposes or

>: : >: >: limited
>: : >: >: >: deployment scenarios. Shared file

databases may

>: : >: not be
>: : >: >: >: as well suited as client-server databases

for

>: : very
>: : >: >: high-
>: : >: >: >: demand, production-quality web

applications."

>: : >: >: >:
>: : >: >: >: My Authorware piece will send and retrieve

data

>: : >: through
>: : >: >: >: an asp page that's connected to an Access
>: : database.
>: : >: The
>: : >: >: >: data in each user record is small: about 25

two-

>: : >: digit
>: : >: >: >: numbers. There may, however, be a

significant

>: : >: >: >: number of users. Does the above article

mean

>: : that
>: : >: asp
>: : >: >: >: and Access are not adequate as a database

for

>: : >: >: commercial
>: : >: >: >: computer-based training?
>: : >: >: >:
>: : >: >: >: Thanks.
>: : >: >: >:
>: : >: >: >: Jim Bowman
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >: >.
>: : >: >: >
>: : >: >
>: : >: >
>: : >: >.
>: : >: >
>: : >
>: : >
>: : >.
>: : >
>:
>:
>
>
>.
>