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starting xterms - Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration

On 23 Jul 2003 08:17:48 -0700, Luke wrote: > Here's what I'd like to do: > I want to start two xterm windows with a specific geometry (is there > anyway to specify the geomtery in pixels instead of characters > though?) and have mutt running in one and slrn running in the other > automatically. > > Is there a way to do that? > > Currently, in my .xsession, i've got: > > xterm -geometry whateveritis & > xterm -geometry whateveritis & > > but i don't know how to start slrn or mutt in those windows... any ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: starting xterms

    On 23 Jul 2003 08:17:48 -0700, Luke wrote:
    > Here's what I'd like to do:
    > I want to start two xterm windows with a specific geometry (is there
    > anyway to specify the geomtery in pixels instead of characters
    > though?) and have mutt running in one and slrn running in the other
    > automatically.
    >
    > Is there a way to do that?
    >
    > Currently, in my .xsession, i've got:
    >
    > xterm -geometry whateveritis &
    > xterm -geometry whateveritis &
    >
    > but i don't know how to start slrn or mutt in those windows... any way
    > to do this, or no?
    Well put commands in a script, chmod +x script_fn
    and the script_fn in .xsession.

    Example script I use with checks to keep copies of newsrc for when
    my isp dinks up their news servers and swap default editors.

    8<-------------8<---------8<---------8<---------8<---------8<-------
    echo -e '\033[?3h\033[?66h'

    export NNTPSERVER=netnews.comcast.net

    _rc="${HOME}/.jnewsrc_comcast"
    _last=${_rc}_last
    _hold=${_rc}_hold

    ping -c 1 $NNTPSERVER
    if [ $? = 0 ] ; then
    _edt=$EDITOR
    export EDITOR=emacs
    /bin/cp $_rc $_last
    xterm -tn xterm -fn 10x20 -title news0 -geom 100x43+100+100 -e slrn
    if [ $? = 0 ] ; then
    set `wc -l $_rc`
    _n=$1
    set `wc -l $_hold`
    _h=$1
    if [ $_n -ge $_h ] ; then
    /bin/cp $_rc $_hold
    fi
    if [ $_n -lt $_h ] ; then
    xterm -fn 10x20 -title "news0 slrn $_rc error" -fg black -bg red &
    fi

    fi

    export EDITOR=$_edt
    else
    echo "$NNTPSERVER News server unavailable"
    fi
    echo -e '\r\r'
    8<-------------8<---------8<---------8<---------8<---------8<-------

    Bit Twister Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: starting xterms

    : [email]run_fasterhotmail.com[/email] (Luke)
    : Currently, in my .xsession, i've got:
    :
    : xterm -geometry whateveritis &
    : xterm -geometry whateveritis &
    :
    : but i don't know how to start slrn or mutt in those windows... any way
    : to do this, or no?

    Probably simplest is some variation on

    xterm -geometry $whatnot -n slrn -T slrn -e slrn &
    xterm -geometry $whatevr -n mutt -T mutt -e mutt &

    The -n sets the initial icon name, -T sets the initial window title,
    and -e means that the rest of the command line is a command for
    xterm to start instead of a shell.

    Many shells (including default rc scripting on most linux distros) are
    set up to change the xterm icon name or window title or both
    dynamically, eg, to represent hostname, or working dir, and other such.
    But in the above case, unless you fork a command shell, the name and
    title will stay put.

    Information on these and other xterm options is available
    online via "man xterm".


    Wayne Throop [email]throopwsheol.org[/email] [url]http://sheol.org/throopw[/url]
    Wayne Throop Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <slrnbhttd1.1g7.lukestclair.homelinux.net>, Luke StClair wrote:
    > In article <1058981448sheol.org>, Wayne Throop wrote:
    >>
    >> xterm -geometry $whatnot -n slrn -T slrn -e slrn &
    >> xterm -geometry $whatevr -n mutt -T mutt -e mutt &
    >>
    >
    > Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted... nice.
    >
    Sorry if this is duplicated... what I'd actually like is for when I
    close slrn or mutt, as created above, the xterm DOESN'T disappear like
    it does now...
    Any ideas?


    --
    Luke St.Clair | "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
    [email]clairstuiuc.edu[/email] | will find; knock and the door will be opened
    ---------------------| to you." - Matthew 7:7
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: starting xterms

    On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:00:25 +0000 (UTC), Luke StClair wrote:
    > In article <slrnbhttd1.1g7.lukestclair.homelinux.net>, Luke StClair wrote:
    >> In article <1058981448sheol.org>, Wayne Throop wrote:
    >>>
    >>> xterm -geometry $whatnot -n slrn -T slrn -e slrn &
    >>> xterm -geometry $whatevr -n mutt -T mutt -e mutt &
    >>>
    >>
    >> Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted... nice.
    >>
    >
    > Sorry if this is duplicated... what I'd actually like is for when I
    > close slrn or mutt, as created above, the xterm DOESN'T disappear like
    > it does now...
    1 Put an icon on your desktop to bring up an xterm when you want one.
    2 Add another xterm &



    Bit Twister Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: starting xterms

    > 1 Put an icon on your desktop to bring up an xterm when you want one.
    > 2 Add another xterm &
    That's not what I'm looking for. I know how to open up an xterm.

    I want a normal xterm to pop up with mutt, just like if I had opened up
    an xterm, and then typed "mutt" in the new xterm... then when I close
    mutt the xterm doesn't go away...

    --
    Luke St.Clair | "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
    [email]clairstuiuc.edu[/email] | will find; knock and the door will be opened
    ---------------------| to you." - Matthew 7:7
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <fc4nfb.dli.lnnews.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    >
    > Then learn how to go "man xterm" in it!
    >
    > -e program [ arguments ... ]
    > This option specifies the program (and its command
    > line arguments) to be run in the xterm window. It
    > also sets the window title and icon name to be the
    > basename of the program being executed if neither
    > -T nor -n are given on the command line. This
    > must be the last option on the command line.
    I read the "man xterm" page... yeesh.
    I don't understand what setting the icon does... i don't even know what
    the icon is... so telling me to set it doesn't really do me any good...

    Since a previous poster had a command option with -n, and that didn't
    keep the xterm up after I quit mutt or slrn, I'd imagine that's not what
    I want.

    --
    Luke St.Clair | "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
    [email]clairstuiuc.edu[/email] | will find; knock and the door will be opened
    ---------------------| to you." - Matthew 7:7
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: starting xterms

    Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net> wrote:
    > In article <fc4nfb.dli.lnnews.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    >>
    >> Then learn how to go "man xterm" in it!
    >>
    >> -e program [ arguments ... ]
    >> This option specifies the program (and its command
    >> line arguments) to be run in the xterm window. It
    >> also sets the window title and icon name to be the
    >> basename of the program being executed if neither
    >> -T nor -n are given on the command line. This
    >> must be the last option on the command line.
    > I read the "man xterm" page... yeesh.
    Why? All you had to do was grep on down to "execute", and you arive at
    the above.
    > I don't understand what setting the icon does... i don't even know what
    I don't understand what you don't understand. You said you wanted an
    icon, so what are you now doing by saying that you don't understand
    what you are supposed to do with it?
    > the icon is... so telling me to set it doesn't really do me any good...
    I don't understand. Are you sulking and being silly? What icon are you
    talking about? If it is the one you want to set to launch an xterm with
    mutt in it, why are you talking about it as though you don't know what
    it is?
    > Since a previous poster had a command option with -n, and that didn't
    Well, you can see from the man page that -n specifies the label under
    the icon. So you MUST be talking about an icon, or else why would you
    be using -n?

    -n string
    This option specifies the icon name for xterm's windows. It is
    shorthand for specifying the ``*iconName'' resource. Note that
    this is not the same as the toolkit option -name (see below).
    The default icon name is the application name.

    > keep the xterm up after I quit mutt or slrn, I'd imagine that's not what
    > I want.
    Are you crazy? Tell me, confidentially. You speak as though you are.

    Peter
    Peter T. Breuer Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: starting xterms

    : Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net>
    : Basically, I just want one blackbox workspace to be divided into two
    : windows, one slrn and one mutt. But I exit mutt and slrn periodically
    : to do something, but I still want the appropriately sized xterms. And
    : I also want mutt and slrn to start automatically on startup in said
    : xterms.

    Ah, I see what you mean. I wouldn't have thought of that, because
    I would think of escaping to the shell by starting a new shell from
    mutt or slrn (uh... I'm sure they can do it, just about all unix
    utilities can), and then exiting that subshell to get back into
    mutt or slrn. On the other hand, this way means you don't have
    a mutt/slrn pending while you're shelling, and you can try differing
    versions or new installs where the more usual way would not.

    Oh well. Whatever works.



    Wayne Throop [email]throopwsheol.org[/email] [url]http://sheol.org/throopw[/url]
    Wayne Throop Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <e9nnfb.qdh.lnnews.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    > Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net> wrote:
    >> In article <fc4nfb.dli.lnnews.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    >> I don't understand what setting the icon does... i don't even know what
    >
    > I don't understand what you don't understand. You said you wanted an
    > icon, so what are you now doing by saying that you don't understand
    > what you are supposed to do with it?
    >
    >> the icon is... so telling me to set it doesn't really do me any good...
    >
    > I don't understand. Are you sulking and being silly? What icon are you
    > talking about? If it is the one you want to set to launch an xterm with
    > mutt in it, why are you talking about it as though you don't know what
    > it is?
    >
    When did I ever ask for an icon? The problem, as I just explained
    above, is that I don't know what an icon is except a little picture.
    I'm new to linux, looking for help. So when I say "I don't even know
    what the icon is", I mean that apparently there's this thing called an
    icon relating to xterms, and I don't know what it is...

    --
    Luke St.Clair | "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
    [email]clairstuiuc.edu[/email] | will find; knock and the door will be opened
    ---------------------| to you." - Matthew 7:7
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <rboofb.r3h.lnnews.it.uc3m.es>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
    > No - there are icons. You can attach commands to them. Click on the
    > background to your desktop and choose "create new -> link to application".
    > CHoose an icon by clicking on the little square with a cog in. Choose
    > a command line to execute by clicking on Execute, and filling out the
    > "command" field. You want to write the line taht has been suggested to
    > you. xterm -e "sh -c ....".
    >
    Oh, so like desktop shortcuts in Windows... I'm still learning linux, so
    I don't know how all the terms translate yet. However, I'm just using
    the minimal blackbox, without blackbox's additional features, so I don't
    think these are supported. I could get an add-on that does, but I'd
    rather not.

    --
    Luke St.Clair | "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
    [email]clairstuiuc.edu[/email] | will find; knock and the door will be opened
    ---------------------| to you." - Matthew 7:7
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: starting xterms

    Luke StClair writes:
    > The problem, as I just explained above, is that I don't know what an icon
    > is except a little picture.
    Have you ever used Windows? If so, how could you do so without knowing
    what an icon is?
    --
    John Hasler
    [email]johndhh.gt.org[/email] (John Hasler)
    Dancing Horse Hill
    Elmwood, WI
    John Hasler Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: starting xterms

    Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net> wrote:
    > In article <slrnbhttd1.1g7.lukestclair.homelinux.net>, Luke StClair wrote:
    >> In article <1058981448sheol.org>, Wayne Throop wrote:
    >>>
    >>> xterm -geometry $whatnot -n slrn -T slrn -e slrn &
    >>> xterm -geometry $whatevr -n mutt -T mutt -e mutt &
    >>>
    >>
    >> Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted... nice.
    >>
    > Sorry if this is duplicated... what I'd actually like is for when I
    > close slrn or mutt, as created above, the xterm DOESN'T disappear like
    > it does now...
    > Any ideas?
    xterm -hold

    The XFree86 xterm supports ANSI color and VT220 emulation
    There's an faq at
    [url]http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html[/url]
    [url]ftp://invisible-island.net/xterm/[/url]

    --
    Thomas E. ey <eyradix.net> <eyherndon4.his.com>
    [url]http://ey.his.com[/url]
    [url]ftp://ey.his.com[/url]
    Thomas Dickey Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: starting xterms

    :: No - there are icons. You can attach commands to them. Click on the
    :: background to your desktop and choose "create new -> link to
    :: application". CHoose an icon by clicking on the little square with a
    :: cog in. Choose a command line to execute by clicking on Execute, and
    :: filling out the "command" field. You want to write the line taht has
    :: been suggested to you. xterm -e "sh -c ....".

    : Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net>
    : Oh, so like desktop shortcuts in Windows...

    Actually... no, not quite. The context was the "-n" switch in xterm,
    which sets the icon name. That icon is akin to the task bar entry for
    a task in windows. Some time ago, these icons were left around on
    the desktop; some window manager still do so. Most nowdays have
    started putting them in an "icon box" much like a task bar, but
    often arranged on the screen quite differently, given the difference
    betwen X and windows in the number and nature of apps usually running.

    But in general, the usage "icon" has spread in both windows and
    in unixoid systems with X, to include so many cases that it really
    does pretty much mean "a little picture on the screen". A little
    picture which when clicked upon can run a command, re-open an existing
    task, or any number of other uses. For example "mozilla displays
    an icon for the page in each tab, along with its title"; there, the
    icon is just about purely "a little picture", and that use of
    the term isn't exactly rare.

    So. To review. In discussing X window managers in general and the
    xterm -n switch in particular, an "icon" is a teeny picture that
    represents an already-running app. The "icon name" is a bit of text
    displayed with the icon (or sometimes without it; eg, twm in text-only
    mode). But the term "icon" is also used for many other uses of "little
    pictures", in both X and windows. Which shows how easy it is to trip
    over naming conventions (so what else is new).


    Wayne Throop [email]throopwsheol.org[/email] [url]http://sheol.org/throopw[/url]
    Wayne Throop Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: starting xterms

    Wayne Throop <throopwsheol.org> wrote:
    > :: No - there are icons. You can attach commands to them. Click on the
    > :: background to your desktop and choose "create new -> link to
    > :: application". CHoose an icon by clicking on the little square with a
    > :: cog in. Choose a command line to execute by clicking on Execute, and
    > :: filling out the "command" field. You want to write the line taht has
    > :: been suggested to you. xterm -e "sh -c ....".
    > : Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net>
    > : Oh, so like desktop shortcuts in Windows...
    > Actually... no, not quite. The context was the "-n" switch in xterm,
    > which sets the icon name. That icon is akin to the task bar entry for
    > a task in windows. Some time ago, these icons were left around on
    [...]
    > But in general, the usage "icon" has spread in both windows and
    > in unixoid systems with X, to include so many cases that it really
    > does pretty much mean "a little picture on the screen". A little
    icon
    n 1: (computer science) a graphic symbol (usually a simple
    picture) that denotes a program or a command or a data file
    or a concept in a graphical user interface
    > So. To review. In discussing X window managers in general and the
    > xterm -n switch in particular, an "icon" is a teeny picture that
    > represents an already-running app. The "icon name" is a bit of text
    In computing, not merely in X.

    Peter
    Peter T. Breuer Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: starting xterms

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    _.--- Lew Pitcher spoke in comp.os.linux.setup --------._
    > xterm -geometry whateveritis -e mutt options for mutt &
    > xterm -geometry whateveritis -e slrn options for slrn &
    Here is a /very/ short run down of my term setup. This completely
    removes the need for me to think in order to reclaim any of my screen
    sessions which contain my mutt and my slrn. Since all my apps get
    loaded into one window it is takes up most of the transparent
    term and I don't have to worry about the size of each window since
    there is only one[0]. It may not be the answer the OP was looking for
    but it is a solution that works for me.

    ~/.xinitrc:
    screenmain.sh &>error &

    screenmain.sh:
    FUGOZI=$(screen -ls | grep Fugozi | awk '{print$1}')
    if ps aux --cols 200 | grep startx ; then
    if [[ "x$FUGOZI" == "x" ]] ; then
    aterm -geometry 113x38 -title Fugozi -e screen -S Fugozi -c /home/faux/.screenmain &
    else
    aterm -geometry 113x38 -title Fugozi -e screen -d -RR ${FUGOZI} &
    fi
    else
    fetchmail
    if [[ "x$FUGOZI" == "x" ]] ; then
    screen -c /home/faux/.screenmain
    else
    screen -d -RR ${FUGOZI}
    fi
    fi

    ~/.screenmain:
    hardstatus alwayslastline "%w"
    screen -t mutt 0 mutt
    screen -t slrn 1 slrn
    screen -t elinks1 2 elinks .lynxbookmarks.html
    screen -t elinks2 3 elinks .lynxbookmarks.html
    screen -t elinks3 4 elinks .lynxbookmarks.html
    screen -t IQC 5 /home/faux/shell//centericq.sh
    screen -t emacs 6 emacs
    screen -t bash 7
    screen -t bash 8
    screen -t bash 9

    ~/.Xdefaults
    aterm*scrollBar: False
    aterm*background: black
    aterm*foreground: white
    aterm*transparent: true
    aterm*tinting: red
    aterm*tintingType: true
    aterm*shading: 45
    aterm*font:-*-fixed-medium-r-*-*-15-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    aterm*multichar_encoding: eucj

    '---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~

    [0] there is only one of this system. i have one term open for each
    system i am normally logged into.

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    iD8DBQE/ItQ3kjt2bc9NoGsRAlTxAKCC/w8y+jXfSekp3Y/zYAmE/dxsQwCeOUtj
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    =ohgS
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    --
    .-')) [url]http://asciipr0n.com/fp[/url] ('-. | I don't give a damn for a man
    ' ..- .:" ) Updated ( ":. -.. ' | that can only spell a word one
    ((,,_;'.;' 05 / 06 ';. ';_,,)) | way.
    ((_.;'*Faux_Pseudo*':._)) | -- Mark Twain
    Faux_Pseudo Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <1059012154sheol.org>, Wayne Throop wrote:
    > xterm -e sh -c 'mutt; exec $SHELL' &
    >
    Ok, now there's a new problem. When using urlview with mutt, i want
    urlview to be able to use the $BROWSER variable. How/where should I set
    this? I've tried export BROWSER="whatever" in my .bash_profile, but
    that doesn't work with xterm -e sh -c 'mutt; exec $SHELL'

    It works if i use xterm -ls, then run mutt, or if I put export
    BROWSER=whatever in my .bashrc, and run just xterm, then mutt. But what
    i'd really like to do is retain the functionality of the quoted xterm
    command above, and at the same time have urlview be able to "see" the
    appropriate browser variable. Any ideas?

    --
    Luke StClair
    [email]run_fasterhotmail.com[/email]
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: starting xterms

    : Luke StClair <lukestclair.homelinux.net>
    : Ok, now there's a new problem. When using urlview with mutt, i want
    : urlview to be able to use the $BROWSER variable. How/where should I set
    : this? I've tried export BROWSER="whatever" in my .bash_profile, but
    : that doesn't work with xterm -e sh -c 'mutt; exec $SHELL'

    And you executed your .bash_profile in the shell from
    which you launched the xterm? I'm guessing you didn't.
    For example, if I do

    bash-2.05a$ export foo=bar
    bash-2.05a$ xterm -e sh -c 'echo $foo; exec bash' &

    in the resulting xterm I see

    bar
    bash-2.05a$

    and $foo is known in the shell also.

    : But what i'd really like to do is retain the functionality of the
    : quoted xterm command above, and at the same time have urlview be able
    : to "see" the appropriate browser variable. Any ideas?

    There are zillions of ways to proceed. You can log out and log back
    in so the setting in your bash profile will take effect, then spawn
    the xterm. Or you can use .bashrc, though you wouldn't want to
    unconditinally set environment values there, since that'd make them
    too difficult to override for testing. Thus, a .bashrc containing
    something like

    if [ "z$ENV_SET" = "z" ] ; then
    export ENV_SET=true
    export BROWSER=MozillaFirebird
    # and any other env settings that might more normall
    # be set in the login profile would go here also
    fi

    If you use this trick to set up your environment, you'll have it
    set up correctly in more cirstances than if you use the login
    profile, since there are ways of starting shells that don't provoke
    them to ever see the login profile. Still not bulletproof, since
    if you invoke bask as "sh", it can end up not even doing .bashrc
    in some cases (eg, remote login with ssh). Some of these have
    workarounds (eg, put ENV=.bashrc in .ssh/environment).


    Wayne Throop [email]throopwsheol.org[/email] [url]http://sheol.org/throopw[/url]
    Wayne Throop Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <1059591287sheol.org>, Wayne Throop wrote:
    >
    > There are zillions of ways to proceed. You can log out and log back
    > in so the setting in your bash profile will take effect, then spawn
    > the xterm.
    That didn't work for me...
    >Or you can use .bashrc, though you wouldn't want to
    > unconditinally set environment values there, since that'd make them
    > too difficult to override for testing. Thus, a .bashrc containing
    > something like
    >
    > if [ "z$ENV_SET" = "z" ] ; then
    > export ENV_SET=true
    > export BROWSER=MozillaFirebird
    > # and any other env settings that might more normall
    > # be set in the login profile would go here also
    > fi
    >
    The .bashrc doesn't even work when I execute the xterm -e sh -c 'mutt'
    command... though it does with xterm -e mutt
    --
    Luke StClair
    [email]run_fasterhotmail.com[/email]
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: starting xterms

    On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:32:31 +0000 (UTC), Luke StClair wrote:
    >
    > The .bashrc doesn't even work when I execute the xterm -e sh -c 'mutt'
    > command... though it does with xterm -e mutt
    Sure is a lot of effort here just to keep a window open after mutt
    exits. :)

    Just for fun, Try changing -e sh to -e bash
    Bit Twister Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: starting xterms

    In article <slrnbigbsd.3u5.BitTwisterwb.home>, Bit Twister wrote:
    > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:32:31 +0000 (UTC), Luke StClair wrote:
    >>
    >> The .bashrc doesn't even work when I execute the xterm -e sh -c 'mutt'
    >> command... though it does with xterm -e mutt
    >
    > Sure is a lot of effort here just to keep a window open after mutt
    > exits. :)
    >
    > Just for fun, Try changing -e sh to -e bash
    Doesn't help... interesting idea though...
    I may just go with not opening mutt automatically...

    --
    Luke StClair
    [email]run_fasterhotmail.com[/email]
    ---
    Posted via [url]news://freenews.netfront.net[/url]
    Complaints to [email]newsnetfront.net[/email]
    Luke StClair Guest

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