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Still waiting for my DP G5, but... - Mac Applications & Software

I did get to spend some quality time with a 1.6 GHz machine at an Apple store last week. Other than the usual iapps, there really wasn't a lot of testing I could do, but I'm sorry to say that I was seriously under whelmed by the performance on this box. It may crunch the benchmarks in impressive ways, but I honestly and subjectively found it not a great deal faster than my DP G4. As for the design aesthetics: I'm all for minimalism and clean industrial design, but it's hard to distinguish the front from the back of the ...

  1. #1

    Default Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    I did get to spend some quality time with a 1.6 GHz machine at an Apple
    store last week.

    Other than the usual iapps, there really wasn't a lot of testing I could
    do, but I'm sorry to say that I was seriously under whelmed by the
    performance on this box. It may crunch the benchmarks in impressive
    ways, but I honestly and subjectively found it not a great deal faster
    than my DP G4.

    As for the design aesthetics: I'm all for minimalism and clean
    industrial design, but it's hard to distinguish the front from the back
    of the machine, and the utility of the handles is undermined by the
    sharp corners of the aluminum. In a word, it's boring, and unless the
    LCDs are refreshed soon, they really won't coordinate with the boxes.

    Really wanted to be n away, and perhaps my expectations were too
    high and my test suite was admittedly limited -- love to see how it
    would perform on video -- but for now anyway, I'm disappointed by what I
    saw. Perhaps we'll see more substantive performance improvements when
    Panther rolls out? Or when the channel is filled with the Dualie.

    Holding out great hopes, but currently disappointed in the G5.

    Anyway, flame away, kids.


    --
    Bummed in NY,

    -John Steinberg
    email: invalid

    ....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
    --Sir Bedevere
    John Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    John Steinberg wrote: 

    That's the beauty of the Apple marketing model:
    for the last 20 years, what's coming next year is always
    "just what we've been waiting for". The Panther betas
    indicate that's still true: whatever comes after Panther
    will be just what we need, until the results are in.
    Then it will be whatever comes after "Cheetah" or "Smilodon".

    Wait a minute - they can't name an OS after a big, fat, slow,
    plodding relic that sunk into the tar under its own weight.
    So they'll have to go with "Cheetah", the fastest cat alive.
    But then if that's the fastest, what comes after "Cheetah"?
    Something slower and even more bloated, with 17,500,000 lines
    of code instead of a mere 15,000,000?
    George Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    George Williams <com> wrote:
     

    That describes the marketing model for all the major computer
    companies, except they wait for Apple to address consumers'
    needs first to see how they can do it too.

    Needs change. Hardware capabilities change. Thus, OS and
    applications software capabilities change. Computers are
    a continually evolving technology. Not long ago, no one
    ever NEEDED to do online banking, much less edit their
    home videos on a computer, but those needs are there now.

    stan@temple.edu Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    John Steinberg:
     
     
     

    I hope that you will post updated impressions after you get the Dual
    G5; I, too, am interested in video performance.

    Following our discussion on sci.astro.amateur and considerable study
    and soul searching, I bought a 2.6GHz Vaio laptop/512MB/Win XP Pro to
    run all those Windoze-only astro programs. My neighbor, graphics guy
    like me, got the 1.8GHz G5. At *his* request we, too, did some
    unscientific comparisons (the only kind that matter to me). The G5
    (Photoshop) was no match for the Vaio (Photoshop Elements) with the
    same filters/procedures on the same image. It was also well behind the
    Vaio on a large spreadsheet (G5 Excel, Vaio MSWorks). On the other
    hand, my G4 667 PowerBook handles StarryNight Pro just as well as the
    Pentium, if not better -- but then the Windoze version of SNP is a Mac
    port.

    Fearing that Apple -- even if it does announce new PowerBooks in Paris
    next week as rumored -- will not produce one that meets my speed
    requirements, I'm thinking of buying a Dual G5 later in the year (when
    I can walk in with my $$ and walk out with the machine) -- even though
    I said I would not buy any more desktop machines. So please post your
    impressions of the Dual G5!

    Davoud
     

    "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall not be flamed."

    --
    usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
    Davoud Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <100920031432088174%net>, Davoud <net>
    wrote:
     


    >
    > I hope that you will post updated impressions after you get the Dual
    > G5; I, too, am interested in video performance.
    >
    > Following our discussion on sci.astro.amateur and considerable study
    > and soul searching, I bought a 2.6GHz Vaio laptop/512MB/Win XP Pro to
    > run all those Windoze-only astro programs. My neighbor, graphics guy
    > like me, got the 1.8GHz G5. At *his* request we, too, did some
    > unscientific comparisons (the only kind that matter to me). The G5
    > (Photoshop) was no match for the Vaio (Photoshop Elements) with the
    > same filters/procedures on the same image. It was also well behind the
    > Vaio on a large spreadsheet (G5 Excel, Vaio MSWorks). On the other
    > hand, my G4 667 PowerBook handles StarryNight Pro just as well as the
    > Pentium, if not better -- but then the Windoze version of SNP is a Mac
    > port.[/ref]


    Apple and IBM recently released new compilers for the G5 (gcc 3.3 from
    Apple Developer Connection; xlf from IBM). At a minimum, your apps need
    to be re-compiled, with the proper G5 compilers switches set, for you to
    see any speed-up beyond the clock speed increase.

    Lots of benchmarks are starting to show up over on Apple's Scitech
    mailing list. The results are mixed as whether or not the G5 is better
    than the top-of-the-line Pentium. What is clear, however, is that the
    G5 absolutely kills the G4.

    Ken P.

    --
    Remove _me_ for e-mail address
    Ken Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    Ken Prager wrote:
     

    Just so I don't come way from this further confused, Ken: Are you
    saying that we won't be seeing the real benefits of the G5 until
    publishers recompile their apps to take proper advantage of it?

    And if so, any idea what kind of time frame we're looking at?

    --
    -John Steinberg

    P.S. Looks like C. Webb is dodging bullets well. I've got my TiVo and
    satellite feed ready.

    email: invalid

    ....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
    --Sir Bedevere
    John Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    George Williams wrote:
     

    I don't know about the fastest cat, but ``Miles'' and ``Coltrane'' would
    be among the names in the running for the coolest cats. <g>


    --
    -John Steinberg
    email: invalid

    ....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
    --Sir Bedevere
    John Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...


    John Steinberg wrote in message ... 


    Ken actually pointed this out - you WILL see a benefit from improved clock
    and bus speeds. Additional improvement is what will require recompilation.
    I know Adobe has already said they are recompiling (have recompiled?)
    Photoshop.




    Jeff Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
    John Steinberg <invalid> wrote:
     
    >
    > Just so I don't come way from this further confused, Ken: Are you
    > saying that we won't be seeing the real benefits of the G5 until
    > publishers recompile their apps to take proper advantage of it?
    >
    > And if so, any idea what kind of time frame we're looking at?[/ref]

    Here is what was written by an Apple employee, on the scitech list...
     

    ....so this contradicts my earlier statement--you do get some advantages
    of the G5 just by using 10.2.7 and it's new libraries. However, not all
    functions are optimized (yet).

    Beyond the libraries, the next step for improving performance is to
    re-compile...
     

    Finally, hand-tuning applications for 64-bit operation will produce even
    more dramatic results.


    == References ===
    Apple's Scitech List
    <http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/scitech>
    Optimizing for the Power Mac G5
    <http://developer.apple.com/performance/g5optimization.html> ):
    Technical Note TN2086: Tuning for the G5: A Practical Guide
    <http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2086.html>
    Technical Note TN2087: PowerPC G5 Performance Primer
    <http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2087.html>
    Technical Note TN2090: Driver Tuning on Panther or G5 (Of interest only
    if you have written a device driver)
    <http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn2090.html>
    Power Mac G5 Performance White Paper (PDF)
    http://www.apple.com/powermac/pdf/PowerMacG5_Perf_WP_071503.pdf


    HTH,

    KP

     

    I was in your neck-of-woods last week to watch the US Open...

    a) Did you see me? I was the one walking around with a #16 King's
    jersey. :)

    b) CWebb and Tyra were on the same flight out (1st class, of course).

    c) I haven't been to NYC in quite a few years. Sure is fun!

    --
    Remove _me_ for e-mail address
    Ken Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <com>,
    George Williams <com> wrote: 

    Welcome to high-tech in general. Jobs does it better than most,
    though.

    I can think of several exceptions -- the original Mac II blew people
    away. The TiBook did the same. Umm, I had another one but I forget
    (wasn't the iPod, either).
     

    Cheetah is 10.1, so Jaguar comes after Cheetah.


    --
    Matthew T. Russotto net
    "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
    of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
    a modi of security is a very expensive vice.
    Matthew Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <bjnn9k$su6$temple.edu>, <edu> wrote: 
    >
    >That describes the marketing model for all the major computer
    >companies, except they wait for Apple to address consumers'
    >needs first to see how they can do it too.[/ref]

    ROTFL.
    --
    Matthew T. Russotto net
    "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
    of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
    a modi of security is a very expensive vice.
    Matthew Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

     

    cheetah was 10.0; puma was 10.1
    nospam Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...


    Ken Prager wrote:
     


    Okie.

     
    >
    > Finally, hand-tuning applications for 64-bit operation will produce even
    > more dramatic results.[/ref]

    That's not unlike what Tony used to say about my Fiat 124 2000 Spider.
    Not to sound like a total rube, but won't the OS first have to be made
    64-bit friendly before apps can take advantage of this fat pipeline?

    Feel free to show me no mercy.

     

    Very much. Now I just have to read all that again and I hope I can
    digest it without imploding. <G>

     

    You should have let me know. My wife and I are Open nuts!
     

    No! But I was at the women's final. Did you see an impossibly tan, tall
    and handsome man sitting three rows back center court?

    I was the slob in the ``Apple Rules/PC's drool'' t-shirt fifty rows
    immediately behind and to the right of him.
     

    That Tyra is one hot little number. Pity I'm old enough to be her
    father...err..grandfather..
     

    <kicking toe in dirt> Yeah, I do what I can. ;)

    Glad you enjoyed and hope you missed the rains.



    --
    -John Steinberg
    email: invalid

    ....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
    --Sir Bedevere
    John Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
    John Steinberg <invalid> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Finally, hand-tuning applications for 64-bit operation will produce even
    > > more dramatic results.[/ref]
    >
    > That's not unlike what Tony used to say about my Fiat 124 2000 Spider.
    > Not to sound like a total rube, but won't the OS first have to be made
    > 64-bit friendly before apps can take advantage of this fat pipeline?[/ref]

    10.2.7 is somewhat 64-bit friendly and 10.3 a lot more so.

    However, if your application has little interaction with the OS then the
    advanatges are more immediate. For example, I have my own simulation
    with very little OS interaction (file I/O at startup). It would be able
    to take advantage of the G5 because most of its ops are independent of
    the OS.

    On the other hand, something like a web browser, which relies heavily on
    the OS calls, would not see the same benefits.

     
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Glad you enjoyed and hope you missed the rains.[/ref]

    It was perfect!


    Ken P.

    --
    Remove _me_ for e-mail address
    Ken Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    Ken Prager wrote:

     

    At the risk of testing your patience a bit further, what if any
    implications are there for 10.3 and beyond on G3s and G4s?
     

    Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification and education.

     

    NY (and NYers) often gets a bad rap about being obnoxious, surly,
    unfriendly, cold, callous, and belligerent, and I'm happy you can help
    correct the record on this. While it may be true that I picked your
    pocket and ransacked your hotel room while you were in Flushing Meadow,
    I did leave an almost fresh Junior Mint on your pillow.


    --
    -John Steinberg
    email: invalid

    ....And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
    --Sir Bedevere
    John Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Still waiting for my DP G5, but...

    In article <srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,
    John Steinberg <invalid> wrote:
     
    >
    > At the risk of testing your patience a bit further, what if any
    > implications are there for 10.3 and beyond on G3s and G4s?[/ref]

    <Geek_Mode>

    First, why is a G5 better? It's better for three reasons: faster clock,
    faster bus, and wider instruction unit. Speed-ups via the first two are
    (essentially) free. Taking advantage of the wider instruction unit
    requires some effort (i.e., re-coding sections of code).

    Speed-up of the OS also requires re-coding. The good people at Apple
    try to identify problem areas and then figure out ways to fix them.
    That is why 10.1 was faster than 10.0, 10.2 faster than 10.1, and why
    10.3 will be faster than 10.2.

    With the G5, however, there are conflicting needs. Optimizing for the
    G5 is not the same as optimizing for the G4. Some of this can be
    confined to libraries but to achieve that last few percent of increased
    performance they'll need to work on the main code. That means
    maintaining separate code segments and devoting resources to both. I
    imagine that as time passes fewer resources will be devoted to the G4.

    My guess is that 10.3.x will be the last release for which there will be
    any major speed improvements for G3/G4. The good news though is that at
    some point the entire line will be G5-based.

    Note: coding for the G3 and G4 is essentially the same. The major
    difference between the two being that the G4 has Altivec. AFAIK,
    Altivec code in the OS was kept in libraries so as not to muddy up the
    base code.

    </Geek_Mode>

    HTH.
     
    >
    > Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification and education.
    >

    >
    > NY (and NYers) often gets a bad rap about being obnoxious, surly,
    > unfriendly, cold, callous, and belligerent, and I'm happy you can help
    > correct the record on this. While it may be true that I picked your
    > pocket and ransacked your hotel room while you were in Flushing Meadow,
    > I did leave an almost fresh Junior Mint on your pillow.[/ref]

    Thanks or turning the sheets down as well!

    Ken P.

    --
    Remove _me_ for e-mail address
    Ken Guest

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